Studded bike tires, selection and first ride impressions

With a 4 to 5 month winter season in Edmonton I've considered studded tires for a long time, but been put off by the price. Nokian http://www.bikemag.com/gear/accessories/030506_nokian/and Schwalbe tires retail $100-140 each; $200-300 for just a set of tires! Ouch!!! That's more than I paid for the bike. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14225

Recently I found some much less expensive studded Kenda tireshttp://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/studded.html. There are three different widths and I've them in stores from $50-65.

Edit Jan 28: Chrisvw pointed out that Nashbar has studded tires from $35-40 that look identical to the Kenda in the picture above. A review: http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/nstud.htm

I was lucky to buy near new medium (1.9") wide Kendas for $30 each. Bought locally from someone who upgraded to the expensive Schwalbes. Got them mounted last night, and took the first ride to school this morning. Some impressions:

The tires are heavy at 1kg each! (replacing a 400g front and 600g rear tire I added 1kg to the bike weight)

The studded tires certainly improve traction and stopping, but subjectively they seem less grippy than the studded tires on the wife's car. I will try with different inflatation to see if it makes a difference. Now I have them inflated low in the front so 6-8 studs make contact on flat ground, and a bit higher in the rear with maybe 4-6 studs in contact. Reason is that my bike starts fishtailing if rear pressure is too low.

Biking on the bike paths and plowed roads is now much more doable. Unplowed roads where the cars have compacted and made deep ruts in the snow are still a challenge.

Rolling resistance is up a lot. Early in the winter I first thought that the bike felt lethargic, and noticed battery capacity was down due to the cold (see other post). Lately I have brought the bike inside to start out with warm batteries, and even with fresh batteries putting out 2kW per cycleanalyst, acceleration feels a lot slower than in the summer. So I'm thinking higher rolling resistance due to tires and snow is a main factor.

My energy use is now 30Wh/km compared to 16Wh/km in the summer.

Local wisdom on the tires are that the Nokian and Schwalbe have even higher rolling resistance. The main difference is that the Kenda medium tires I got have a stud free middle ridge, see image above. The Kenda wide, Nokian and Schwalbe I saw don't have a middle ridge at all, but are knobbies with studs everywhere.

B.t.w. Cycle analyst seems to work down to around -10C but not at -20C.

There's a cheap and extreme alternative.

photo borrowed from somewhere

Buy 200 short screws, drill holes for them on your tire from outside (so you can choose locations), instal screws, line the inside of tire with gorilla-tape, spare tubes, or special liners to prevent punctures or what ever you find.. perhaps some elastic glue with screws to keep them intact.

Screws should extrude only few millimeters at center and a bit more at sides. If the are longer, they will bend the tire and rip it.

Snow is a rough deal. I'm actually getting into e-bikes because I need some power with one foot on the ground.

I'm told that the really choppy conditions are well handled by a "fatbike", i.e. a Surly Pugsley -- but if you are balking at $100 for a set of tires, an average Pugsley build is very far outside of your acceptable budget (I feel ya).

Heavily traveled, unplowed footpaths are the absolute worst. I did a ride the other day, my average speed was 7 mph. Seven.

So yeah, any performance hit you're getting from a chemical standpoint in the battery... pales in comparison to the muck you're plowing through.

I blew the wab on the Schwalbe Ice Spike Pro's. Nice. 361 aluminum jacketed tungsten carbide spikes on a skinwall tire. Every knob that sticks out has a spike on it. It leaves nasty, deep scratches on any surface known to man, unless you are riding a diamond road. OK road performance - 20%higher drag than the 2.35" Schwalbe Big Apple Kevlar I normally run, and much more squirrly, but what do you expect. No problems with traction on glare ice. Good traction in snow. I have problems at speed in slush but that is just because the front end gets thrown around. I go slow in slush.

BTW, in case you can't tell, I think cheap rubber is a false economy.

StevenR said:

I blew the wab on the Schwalbe Ice Spike Pro's.

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Those Ice Spike Pro's look serious:

And 700g on that tire is amazingly light. Hope it holds up. (Bike magazine review of Nokian's similar 700g tire noted that the rubber thread was not sturdy enough to hold the studs in. Not sure if the Nokian's have the beefy al;uminum insert that the Schwalbe's do though.

But I think the marathon winter might be better suited for a commuter.

These look more suited for road as opposed to off-road, and have the stud free middle just like the Kenda.

StevenR said:

BTW, in case you can't tell, I think cheap rubber is a false economy.

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We'll see in one or two years. My guess is that the Kenda's are reasonably economic (pretty hard rubber, and a a full kg of it) at the expense of some grippiness. Nokian's I saw had slighly softer, thereby grippier rubber, but wear faster. Don't know about the Schwalbes.

StevenR said:

I blew the wab on the Schwalbe Ice Spike Pro's. Nice. 361 aluminum jacketed tungsten carbide spikes on a skinwall tire.

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Just found a review:
http://www.bikemag.com/gear/accessories/Schwalbe_Ice_Spiker_Pro/
Much more positive comments than for the similar Nokian's. I guess I'll envy those tires on the trail. Still not sure it is the best for paved road use though. Roads have bare sections, poorly plowed snowy sections and icy patches. A commuter tire has to perform well on all.

The website icebike has a (dated 2004) review on tires: http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/tires.htm Note that the Nashbar tires are made by Kenda so may be the same ones you were looking at. It may help you with other alternatives. It even has quick instructions for building your own. Not too unlike the instructions in this thread.
Fortunately, in Northern Colorado where I live, the roads generally are cleared in a couple of days. It's just those ice patches that are out to get you!

If any of you have any great ideas on how to keep your hands warm, I'd love to hear it. I have wimpy hands and that is often the limiting factor for whether I can ride. My commute is 11 miles, so I'm not willing to just "tough it".

Some more good reading:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

jag said:

studded Kenda tireshttp://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/studded.html. medium (1.9") wide

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Some more experiences with the Kenda's:
Today it was -22C when I woke up. Warmed to -18C when I left home. 8.8km ride was 2/3rds on plowed but not salted bike paths 1/3 on plowed, salted and mostly bare road. Wore a downhill ski coverall, face mask and gloves over wool mittens. Still was nippy in the beginning before I got the circulation up by pedalling hard. Used 22Wh/km this ride. Much less than the 30Wh/km when pushing through new sticky snow and car tire ruts. Speed was 30-40km/h. Max speed is down to 45km/h with the studded tires compared to 55km/h on my summer slicks.

Snow was much less sticky at this low temp and tires performed better than when the snow is close to 0C or made soft by salt. When the snow is soft it clogs the tire threads even though the pattern is fairly open.

chrisvw said:

If any of you have any great ideas on how to keep your hands warm, I'd love to hear it. I have wimpy hands and that is often the limiting factor for whether I can ride. My commute is 11 miles, so I'm not willing to just "tough it".

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Thick mittens instead of gloves. I have a lambskin with fur inverted as outside mittens and a wool mitten inside. Probably a fleece mitten with some suitable cover will work also. Taking the inner and outer mitten apart speeds drying.

A problem with thick mittens is shifting. I have overhand levers for downshift and under bar levers for upshift (late 90's Shimano Deore shifters). These are easier to handle with the mittens than the newer ones with two levers under the handlebar. A thick mitten thumb simply cannot press one at a time.

I _swear_ by these things:

http://barmitts.com/

32F, I can ride bare handed. 15F, I'll wear some bike gloves. 0F or less, I'll wear some winter gloves.

I took an exacto knife to one side after they were mounted to fit a mirror mount through.

Winter riding is great fun! Tried riding one of the creek ravines yesterday. Trail starts near my house, goes along a river for a bit, then enters a deep ravine and finally climbs up a 4km long uphill back into the city. Because little sun reaches the bottom of the ravine it is one of the last trails to become cyclable in the spring. It is usually full of slippery ice and snow long into April. Hence I had hesitated to try it in the winter before. Now however, before the melting season, the trail was nice hardpacked snow; good grip with the new studded tires. A plus of winter outdoor activities is that places that are crowded in the summer can be nearly empty in the winter. On my way back in the evening my only companion was a coyote running along the trail ahead of me towards the river.

Stats: 60s NiCd run at 60V at 1.5-2kW load now in winter. Voltage in summer is 70V. Used 22Wh/km with moderate pedalling and speeds around 30km/h.

Wow,

sounds like fun, I have the Nokian extremes, I love them, I feel very confident on the bike path on ice and whatnot.
I love the winter too , The electric are so much fun in the snow! Last year I kept the studds off and I did ok though with the mountain bike tires. But you live in the boonies right? can 60 volts outrun the cayotes?

ianmcnally2 said:

Wow,

sounds like fun, I have the Nokian extremes, I love them, I feel very confident on the bike path on ice and whatnot.
I love the winter too , The electric are so much fun in the snow! Last year I kept the studds off and I did ok though with the mountain bike tires. But you live in the boonies right? can 60 volts outrun the cayotes?

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Same here although I took them off for now as we haven't gotten any snow since I put them on :-/

At first I felt like they would slide out on me fairly easily... until I took them on a frozen pond... that erased all doubts I had If you lock the rear wheel on pure ice it leaves a cool track behind you

ianmcnally2 said:

But you live in the boonies right? can 60 volts outrun the cayotes?

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Once I bike down in the river valley just north of the university it looks like in the boonies, but in reality I'm just a few km from the Edmonton and Strathcona city centres. The river valley was set aside as a big 18,000 acre park about 100 years ago, through unusual foresight of the leaders of the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Saskatchewan_River_valley_parks_system

jag said:

Much more positive comments than for the similar Nokian's. I guess I'll envy those tires on the trail. Still not sure it is the best for paved road use though. Roads have bare sections, poorly plowed snowy sections and icy patches. A commuter tire has to perform well on all.

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Their road handling does leave something to be desired. Pressure is critical with a 5303 rear and a 48V20aH Pingv3 over the rear tire. Too soft and it wiggles all over the place. Too much pressure and the rim is toast. Normally too little pressure toasts the rim but the handling goes away so bad before a bump gets through to the rim. High pressure just transmits the bump and causes rim failure. I may have had slightly loose spokes - these will be TIGHT.

That being said, with proper inflation (32psi +3psi - 1psi) they don't seem handle worse than any knobbie on the road.

Wiped out and bit the dust today. Always have to learn the hard way!

I was coming down a concrete ramp with a 180 turn at the middle. Ramp was completely snow and ice free. My tires have rubber in the middle and studs on the sides. Had good grip on the rubber on the straight piece. Leaned bike down for the 180 curve. Studded part hits the concrete. Front end just slips away under me and bike slides away.

Luckily not much damage beyond a bent handlebar and some bruises. Of course I know studs don't grip well on the dry, but knowing is not the same as remembering at the right instant; seems like real world enforcement is needed to hammer it in...

The spring period of melting snow in the afternoon and then freezing back to ice overnight has started here in Edmonton. This is where the studded tires really shine. In the mornings it is full of shiny blank and slippery ice patches. Even difficult to walk in places. With the studded tires I just ride straight over the ice. The studs really bite the ice!

So (not surprisingly) regular knobbies w/o studs works well on snow, even hardpack snow, but only studs gets me through those blank and shiny ice patches upright.

From Berig Vintrange, Rochester, NY

well, I wiped out twice on black ice recently, I ride an old cruiser bike with big knobbies, usually have no problem, but, forgot to take into account black ice, on a parking lot, swoosh, bike out from under me, somehow I ended up sliding on my knees aside the bike, the second wipe out was less dramatic but momentarily immobilizing nonetheless,

so, now I'm going to invest in studded tires, which is what brought me here, I have a couple local shops to choose from, have reviewed some of those posts here, will keep your advice in mind,

living car-free in Rochester is a pure joy, all year, need to make it as safe!

Peace, Berig

BerigVintrange said:

From Berig Vintrange, Rochester, NY

well, I wiped out twice on black ice recently, I ride an old cruiser bike with big knobbies, usually have no problem, but, forgot to take into account black ice, on a parking lot, swoosh, bike out from under me, somehow I ended up sliding on my knees aside the bike, the second wipe out was less dramatic but momentarily immobilizing nonetheless,

so, now I'm going to invest in studded tires, which is what brought me here, I have a couple local shops to choose from, have reviewed some of those posts here, will keep your advice in mind,

living car-free in Rochester is a pure joy, all year, need to make it as safe!

Peace, Berig

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I'm curious where you ride? I lived almost a decade in Rochester, and half of it car free. In the summers I would ride my bike for commuting and errands. This worked well as I lived close the the canal towpath, and there is a bike path also along the Genesee river from UR to downtown. However in the winter the canal path was not plowed so I mostly took the bus when I didn't have a car or drove when I had one.

I don't like to ride busy streets, and I'm even less inclined to share the road in slippery winter conditions.

Here in Edmonton they started plowing many of the bike paths some years ago, and if there is no bike path and I don't feel safe sharing the road with the drivers I'll ride the sidewalks. The sidewalks have to be shoveled, and the residents are often better at keeping them clean than the city is to shovel the roads. I also find it easier to ride in snow that people walked on compared to roads where the vehicle tires make deep ruts.

Just sharing some pics of some carbide tipped studs that I added to my Surly Larry fat tires:
http://dillerdesign.com/random/bike/studded_Larry_tires/

drewdiller said:

Just sharing some pics of some carbide tipped studs that I added to my Surly Larry fat tires:
http://dillerdesign.com/random/bike/studded_Larry_tires/

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Really nice job! Are the studs you use especially for tires, or some kind of rivet? Where did you buy them?

This means it is possible to make good studded tires for wheels of odd sizes. Good news for those contemplating builds with wheel sizes other than 26"

I inlined one of the images for the convenience of ES readers.

The studs are from a French company called UgiGrip. They're 11mm long. I wish I could have gotten my hands on some 10mm length studs instead.

Basically you can get tungsten tipped studs in the US, but they're expensive, something like $1 per stud! These, I got off Ebay, 1,000 count for $42. While the studs were being shipped, I had a conversation with Mohawk Rubber Supply, and they referred me to Bruno Wessel: http://www.brunowessel.com/ -- so YMMV on sourcing the studs.

Basically they are passenger car studs, and I'm misusing them. They're meant to be pneumatically shot into into a tread from the outside in, and the pan head keeps them from backing out.

I went from the inside out due to the thin casing of bike tires, and covered the pan heads with some liners and fixed the liners in place with Super 77. I think next time I do this I'll just use another inner tube and cut it in half, and apply talcum powder liberally and hope the heads don't wear through the sacrificed tube. The glue got really messy because water seeped in through the spaces between the rubber and the stud carrier.

Be very careful not to chew up each lug too much. I used a self tapping drill bit. Don't push the studs through by hand, you'll hurt your thumbs (I had nerve pain for two weeks). Use locking pliers on the edges of the pan heads, get through the casing, let go with the pliers, and push them the rest of the way with something blunt.

After I finished, I stumbled upon these guys, which are expensive, but look really interesting in terms of a simple approach: http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/pr...self-tapping-carbide-tire-studs/category/324/

Much appreciated to the contributors of this thread. Below is a link to a recent review of my purchase.
Studded Tires: Schwalbe Marathon Winter

Thank you, KF