Help. How to test controller is working with out opening.

I have a situation where I am giving phone help to try to get a bike going.

Unfortunately I cant go to see the bike (to far away) so need to try to work out whats not working.

So far, I have had them test the halls, all good there.
Its only a low power setup, so i am thinking in the end it will be a loose wire. But they have done a good inspection of all the plugs.

Q. How to test the controller. Can I get an indication that the controller is behaving normal by test. Its sending power down to the halls, fires up the CA, but no motor action at all, not even a shudder. How can I test that there is voltage going to the phase wires when the throttle is activated. If I can be assured the controller is ok or not, then I can move on.

This is my guess how to test. Put meter on AC across 2 phase wires. Plug in hall plug to motor, apply throttle and turn wheel (to feed hall signal). Should give me a voltage? What voltage?

Never had to do this before, I am totally guessing here.

Some help please.

We disconnected the e brake to eliminate that, could be the throttle but very unlikely.
We had some issued with the hall plug wires, which may have shorted.

you need to confirm that the voltage on the hall sensors toggles on and off when you slowly rotate the wheel,(backwards if it is a geared hub).

you need to confirm you have 5V on the red throttle wire from the controller, and then confirm the voltage on the green hall return leg of the throttle changes when you turn the throttle.

the throttle has to be plugged in when you do this, just like the halls.

Hi,

Yes we tested the halls, all good there. Have not done the throttle, but will do, but quite sure that's not it. Power is going to throttle as it has bat level lights that are working.
They had some wires drop of the hall plug, so I sent them a new plug, they installed it and now no go. So wondering if there might have been a hall short at sometime and caused controller damage. That too I feel is unlikely.

so you do not know if the hall sensor wires are toggling? does the voltage jump between .3V and 4.7V? on each of the hall sensor wires? sounds like they broke the wires at the plug already, but they may have shorted one of them to power.

Your right, I am not sure if they were turning on and off. We got a voltage from each sensor, but was not specific about checking they were going on and off.

I have had halls fail before, but usually you get some sort of shudder, slow rotation, noise from the motor, we are getting nothing, and no resistance against turning. Its as if the controller is not on.

Will re-check the halls and throttle.

if they are high and don't change then they are burned out. but if they switch from high to low when you rotate the wheel, you can assume both the hall sensors and the controller are working properly. but they have to toggle on and off.

hall throttles do fail too, there you would look for the 5V from the controller out to the throttle, on the red wire.

the black wire on the throttle is ground and the other wire is usually green for the hall sensor in the throttle. it should change from .3V to 4.7V as you rotate the throttle. all while plugged in to the controller.

if both of those work, then the problem may be in the controller mosfets or even a bad wiring in the stator of the hub motor, but that is unusual to the max.

Guy swaps the hall plug and now nothing. Sounds like he broke one of the 10 wires near the plug (5 controller side and 5 motor side) or inserted one or more into the plug incorrectly...maybe swapped the red/black. Also possible is that one of those spades is slipping off to the side instead of into the female slot.

The guy needs a Lyen ebike tester, which tests motors, controllers, and throttles.

John in CR said:

The guy needs a Lyen ebike tester, which tests motors, controllers, and throttles.

Click to expand...

Lyen's tester is a very handy bit of kit, in case you're interested here is the thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20413
Just be aware that some testers (including mine) may have the connectors in a different order than what is stated on the instructions.

If that doesn't appeal then some other testers are available from BLDC guy https://sites.google.com/site/byobldc/project-updates/motorcontrollerhallphasethrottletester
and
http://www.senyu.biz/diagnostictools.htm

I just ordered a Lyen tester. If not for this case, for the next. That way I can send it to people, they can test there bike and send back the failing part for repair. These are people who just want to ride the bike. You say watt, they say what?.

if you have 5V on the red wire to the hall sensors from the controller, that's all you need. you really don't need a tester tool. same is true with the throttle.

if you don't see the sensor leads toggle, that hall sensor is dead or disconnected, period.

if there is no voltage on the red wires to the halls or throttle, the controller is not working. period.

Yup, we got power to the halls, and voltage off each hall, but I didn't ask him to check if they were toggling on and off. He will do that in the next days.
So lets say the motor halls are ok, (which I think they will be) how can I test the controller, with out opening the case, with a multimeter?

if the hall signals each toggle, then check for voltage on the throttle wires. red should be 5V and the grey(or green) wire should vary from .3-4.7V as the throttle is turned. if both the throttle and halls work then there may be some problems in the controller with the power through the mosfets or in the motor itself so that would involve testing the FETs or the hubmotor windings.

You can do the roll back test:

1. With it all hooked up and power switched ON & throttle in the rest position, spin the motor backwards by hand or roll the bike backwards quickly - if there is a strong steady resistance then the halls and FETs are working properly.

2. Disconnect the battery and spin the motor backwards again - it should spin freely. If it has resistance or cogging (as per step 1) then there is a short in either the motor phase windings, phase wires or controller FETs.

3. Disconnect the motor phase/hall wires from the controller.
To check the controller FETs for shorts, use an ohmmeter and measure from each controller phase wire (B, G, Y) to each power wire - both the positive and negative from the battery, 6 combinations in all - and look for a low resistance. No low resistance then OK (My Ananda controller measures about 10k).
To check the motor, ensure the phase wire connectors are not touching each other/shorting and spin the motor backwards again - spins freely then OK. If it has cogging/resistance then check wires/connectors for cuts/melted insulation causing shorts between phases.


[Edited for power on/off & motor short]

Thanks, thats the answer I was after. Thanks for ever ones input.

I don't understand this: To check the motor with it unplugged ensure the phase wires are not shorting and spin the motor backwards again - spins freely then OK. If it has cogging/resistance then check wires/connectors for cuts/melted insulation causing shorts between phases.
What is unplugged? If power then the wheel would spin easy, correct? If phase wires, why would the wheel resist because phase wires were shorting if they don't have power?

TedDBayer said:

I don't understand this: ...
If phase wires, why would the wheel resist because phase wires were shorting if they don't have power?

Click to expand...

The motor is not using power, it's generating it - and dumping into a dead short (heat). Generating power takes work so the wheel resists.

sorry I only glanced through replies, but if this is a infineon control ? don't they have two wires that need to be joined or an on/off Switch added before the control turns on?

KiM

thanks Greentime controller, l bought 2 of them and using the second one now. I'm having a hell of a time figuring out why I can't get this to run, hal sensors and throttle test OK, I did the 36 position swap on phase wires and have 2A fuses on the power wires to test. I found a thread with my controller, and according to it I have it wired correctly, on/off wires just joined together. I'm not getting any resistance when spinning wheel if power is on or off, yet the hals have alternating voltage.

just had exactly the same problem and symptoms...it was blown fetsd... stwveo repaired iut foe me