Schwinn chopper ebike buildup questions

Hello all, Brian here with a project in progress. I have a adult size Stingray that I will be modding myself at home.
I have many questions and can show pics if needed. After looking over this and many other sites I have learned much, but now, I am even more puzzled about the viability of this project. A gentleman who seems quite inteligent on the Amped Bikes site states quite clearly that ebike motors are pedal assist only! He also states that kits sold with high wattage ratings are just overvolted, abused 500 watt motors. I have seen videos of 72 volt bikes hitting over 30 mph on level ground, with 500 watt motors. Well, it's time to ask the experts. My chopper has springer forks, so a front hub is a bad idea, right? The bike weighs 45 pounds naked, I weigh 210 naked, oops, adding groceries, [on my back in a pack] batteries, lights, motor, all add up to about 400 pounds. Next hurdle, the route will be about 20 miles with two 20 percent grades about one city block long. The last grade will be about a mile from home. Also the store isn't likely to let me recharge while I shop. As if the water wasn't deep enough, I live in WI, so there will be days filled with snow, ice, and brutally cold -20+ temps that will bring out the wanderer in me. Lastly, there's the dificulty of modding this bike to begin with, from the perspective of a guy with only one arm, and a bum leg. That should explain the need for power. I can't pedal the thing to begin with, but can ride it well downhill. Now, I'm not looking for speed, or brutal acceleration, but I need tourqe and range. I'm looking to get 20 mph, for 20 miles in all weather, with a 50 lb. load on my back. When you quit laughing, or shaking your heads, I welcome your feedback. My tentative plans are for 48 volt LIFEPO4 30 AH cell in a framebag, between my knees. A 750 watt rear mount motor with disk brake setup. and a controller mounted to the back of the seat tube. My biggest issue is the rear dropout width is longer than standard. About 158.6 mm from inside of dropout to inside of dropout. A website selling replacement wheels for the bike states that the width is 177? mm from locknut to locknut. I read somewhere that this issue has been solved by at least one manufacturer. Also, I wish to keep my 4 in wide rear tire and rim involved as well. So I need to have a motor with disk brake, 12mm spokes, [ the biggest right?] and 4 inch wide rim, to fit a 20x4.25 tire. I sent an email to Crystalite earlier today asking if they would lace up a wide rim to a motor for me, but I forgot to stipulate the disk brake part. I expect this project to take about a year to build, mainly due to limited funds.

Hello all, Brian here with a project in progress. I have a adult size Stingray that I will be modding myself at home.
I have many questions and can show pics if needed. After looking over this and many other sites I have learned much, but now, I am even more puzzled about the viability of this project. A gentleman who seems quite inteligent on the Amped Bikes site states quite clearly that ebike motors are pedal assist only! He also states that kits sold with high wattage ratings are just overvolted, abused 500 watt motors. I have seen videos of 72 volt bikes hitting over 30 mph on level ground, with 500 watt motors. Well, it's time to ask the experts. My chopper has springer forks, so a front hub is a bad idea, right? :wink: The bike weighs 45 pounds naked, I weigh 210 naked, oops, adding groceries, [on my back in a pack] batteries, lights, motor, all add up to about 400 pounds. Next hurdle, the route will be about 20 miles with two 20 percent grades about one city block long. The last grade will be about a mile from home. Also the store isn't likely to let me recharge while I shop. As if the water wasn't deep enough, I live in WI, so there will be days filled with snow, ice, and brutally cold -20+ temps that will bring out the wanderer in me. Lastly, there's the dificulty of modding this bike to begin with, from the perspective of a guy with only one arm, and a bum leg. That should explain the need for power. I can't pedal the thing to begin with, but can ride it well downhill. Now, I'm not looking for speed, or brutal acceleration, but I need tourqe and range. I'm looking to get 20 mph, for 20 miles in all weather, with a 50 lb. load on my back. When you quit laughing, or shaking your heads, I welcome your feedback. My tentative plans are for 48 volt LIFEPO4 30 AH cell in a framebag, between my knees. A 750 watt rear mount motor with disk brake setup. and a controller mounted to the back of the seat tube. My biggest issue is the rear dropout width is longer than standard. About 158.6 mm from inside of dropout to inside of dropout. A website selling replacement wheels for the bike states that the width is 177? mm from locknut to locknut. I read somewhere that this issue has been solved by at least one manufacturer. Also, I wish to keep my 4 in wide rear tire and rim involved as well. So I need to have a motor with disk brake, 12mm spokes, [ the biggest right?] and 4 inch wide rim, to fit a 20x4.25 tire. I sent an email to Crystalite earlier today asking if they would lace up a wide rim to a motor for me, but I forgot to stipulate the disk brake part. I expect this project to take about a year to build, mainly due to limited funds.

Welcome to ES RallySTX,

My short, non-expert, answer would be to build on a bike that's more suitable for an e-conversion. You can often find a suitable steel framed MTB or Cruiser for less than a $100 (my first build started with a new $75 Walmart steel framed Road Master hard tailed MTB). You can also find some great deals on much higher quality used bikes for not much more than a hundred. You will, imo, need to go with at least a 48v lifepo4 battery of no less than 20ah/2C and a hub direct drive motor of 500-1000watts. I'd go with motor wound for good all-around torque and moderate speed (figure on a top speed of about 20mph) . You'll also need a controller that can handle at least 20-25 amps continuous (with a peak of about 30 amps). A Cycle Analyst would also be a big help in configuring the proper setup so as to meet your requirements.

Long answer would be to have an hub motor laced to your Stingray rim by an experienced e-bike shop (or mechanic). Ebike.ca, etc, should be able to "cut" a set of custom spokes for you. Excessive spoke angle could end up being your biggest problem with this "lace up" so, be sure to address this issue before you start.

Good luck and good riding!

Sorry, I didn't mean to re-post the OP.

Problem one , after money, is likely to be getting the motor laced. A good choice for the motor may be a crystalyte 5304, which can take the heat of lugging that weight up a hill. I think you have a 24" rear wheel? That combo will get you some power to get up hills with 48v. Holmes Hobby is the guy to talk to about the lacing.

I suspect your grades are not quite as steep as 20%, but some places have that steep. No less steep route you could take? The 24" rim 5304 should eat anything up to 10% alive with no problems. With ehough volts though, you'd fly up that hill.

Battery will cost ya, but 48v 20 ah should get you 20 miles, even toting a big load with a big clyte motor. But you will need batteries that can handle the amp rate that motor will demand. You might want to look at lipo batteries if you don't make the trip everyday.

How's your back? Mines not good, so 20 miles nonstop on a chopper would be like having sombody pound me with a sledgehammer.

RallySTX said:

A gentleman who seems quite inteligent on the Amped Bikes site states quite clearly that ebike motors are pedal assist only! He also states that kits sold with high wattage ratings are just overvolted, abused 500 watt motors.

Click to expand...

This guy quite obviously has no freakin clue about ebikes, can't begin to tell you how wrong he is. Secondly, absolutely nothing wrong with your choice
of bike, I gather it has the 20X4.25 rear? if so you get a pretty cushy ride i added a springer seat to mine and can ride all day on mine, i have broken my pelvis in 16 places and my back in to am a para if i find it comfy im sure you will too haha, front hub though wouldn't likely be the best option on a springer fork, i have one on my cruiser also, they move about at the best of times get a big heavy frock motor on the front and it won't be advantageous to the springer function. Listen to Dogman regarding suggestions for motors he's used most of them himself so speaks from experience not from what he's read. He does however only offer one option "hub" motors there are non hub motor alternatives also.

Welcme to the forum, steer clear of the "expert" on amped bikes and best of luck.

KiM

Thanks to Dogman, FNB42, and Ausie Jester for your input. As I try to repair the self inflicted damage to the thread, I sip MD and listen to Smooth Jazz online. Going for the longest range I can get, with hills and weight and a 20 inch rear wheel being the main obstacles. Yeah, I used a tool I found out about here, called Map my ride.

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/create/

We have four 20% grades here in Janesville, and even more that are slightly less but last for blocks. After all I put my back through, I'm lucky to still have one, but I hear you Dogman. I will keep my eyes peeled for a Crystalite 5304 with a nine inch axle, and disk brake mount.
Ausie Jester, I was wondering about that dude, and I saw your video cruise on youtube. You blokes down under have all the luck. You're an inspiration to all disabled folk, with your skills and courage, I salute you. With my left hand of course!
Brian L.

Yeah, I don't talk much about non hub drive since I don't have that experience.

20 inch rim eh? Well then you'll have plenty of grunt on those hills with a 9c 2807. If the top speed is too slow, you could go a bit faster with the 2806. Get the 30 amp controller, and some batteries that can handle that amp rate and you will have a pretty serviceable ride. Or if still too slow, get a lyens 72v controller and run more volts later.

A lot of my problem with riding unsprung bikes is the bike trail I use has horrible bumps where the water channels cross the trail.

Is this a daily ride you plan, or just when you need to shop? Go for the lipo if you don't have to charge twice a day.

Thanks Theboodler, you hit that one out of the park. Batteries aint cheap. I have been looking at the Ebikke kit style batteries in the aluminum case and narrow size when mounted sideways, but man they cost. The Nine Continent motors are highly prized for their legendary reliability, and performance nearing the Crystalite X5 series with less weight, and higher efficiency. I can go arround most of the large hills when traveling, but doing so triples the mileage sometimes. That's why I need the range of a high output battery. I have only one arm, so building complex battery packs is out.
The Spoiler, a 2005 built Schwinn Stingray, one of only 2000 made, list price was arround $500.

Theres a button with "Img" on it. You hit that and it puts in start and end 'tags' that mark the beginning and end of your Image URL. Paste the URL in between - like : and it looks like : ]

The front triangle is nothing like a regular bike. Its not even a triangle but 4 sides and the chain cuts thru there too. So a regular battery or bag designed for the front triangle won't fit. The back wheel looks real sturdy and the center of gravity puts more weight on the rear. As you add weight forward of the center of gravity it goes more onto the front wheel - via that extended chopper fork - which looks considerably less sturdy than the rear.

48v X 20AH LiFePo4- About 8 quarts volume and 28 pounds. There is usually also a speed controller somewhere - usually built into a finned heatsink/box like a small car stereo amplifier - should go somewhere with airflow.

12mm spokes - You probably mean 12ga which is about 2.7mm and 2 sizes thicker than usual spokes. Check the spoke gauge with the hub maker. Also the hub and the rim have to agree as to how many spokes - usually 32 or 36.

Wide wheel and tire - regular hub. Though you have an axle long enough you could have trouble with the chain rubbing the tire? Maybe some dishing required - where the spokes on one side are a bit shorter than the other so the rim is shifted to one side of the hub - away from the drive sprocket a bit and towards the brake disc.

There is one advantage the extra wide bottom bracket and extra wide rear hub gives you alot more width to fit in a battery box, something lil like this one



that uses the same same rear wheel and same bottom bracket...easily fits 44v 20ah of lipo, but could get 30ah in there easily...

KiM

Thanks Samba and Aj, After lurking about I have learned that putting a front hub motor on this bike is a no no. Aluminum frame and dropouts get fragile with the weight and power I will have. I was confused about 12mm, or 12g spokes. After reading about this guy, I determined to stick with a rear hub setup. I really like your box Kim, any chance of getting one made for me?

http://visforvoltage.org/vehicle/spoiled-spoiler/7417

Well...now you have discussed the hub idea...here's one other alternative....you have ample room in front of the
rear wheel to mount a reduction drive and inrunner Astro 3110 or 3220 motor, the reduction drives are available from
ES forum Member Recumpence along with mounting hardware and the motors, you would also need a disk brake sprocket
adapter to mount on the left side of the hub (yes you can retain the disk) you mount the adapter to the disk brake holes
to this a ~45ish tooth sprocket... pick up a hv160 Castle Creations esc a throttle kit ~400 bucks of 22v 5000ah (44v 20ah)
lithium polymer batteries from Hobby King and you right to rumble on lecky power... It will cost a mint BUT
it is a lighter setup, IMO it will be a better balanced bike, with excellent acceleration and hill climbing ability, higher
efficiency aaand alot faster than whats been discussed above... Its not cheap and it is a bit of steep learning curve
all the parts are available all you need t do is fit them, it is an option that IMO would suit your bike but you would have to be
prepared to do a bit of reading it's not super difficult if it was i wouldnt have been able to do it myself, i am an electronics
retard LoL ... Best of luck with whatever you do...

KiM

Hi Brian!

i´m using a 500w 48v conhismotor hub on my chopper - axle is long enough and Jason from Conhismotor also managed to get the right rim. maybe i should have taken the same 1000W i have in my MTB but i wanted a less powerful one for my smaller 10 Ah Lifepo pack. the 1000w one drags to many amps and would soon kill the small pack.




i see mine more like a toy - maybe it´s smaller than yours or maybe i´m too big... 186cm but only 78kg, wouldn´t want to go 20 miles on it everyday. it´s for short trips in town

Thanks Pedalex, you are a true believer aren't you. I will look into Conhismotors. The rear dropouts are very wide on the Spoiler. I really like the 4 inch wide rim too. I love it, another Echopper! Yeah that bike looks awesome man. I like the idea of the RC drive system working through the deraileur on a bike. My Spoiler came with a single speed freewheel though.
Add to that the tubes of my frame are oval shaped and large, so mounting anything to them will be dificult.
Brian L.

http://www.schwinnchoppers.com/ElectricMotorKits.html - no idea who they are or how trustworthy. Always spooks me when theres no phone or address.
I can't tell what motors they use - maybe someone else can. 500 or 1000w

This pic of theirs - http://shop.schwinnchoppers.com/images/1251487655034-1054808098.jpeg - looks familiar but they may have just 'borrowed' it.

If you will be charging the battery a lot - you can charge it pretty quick up to the point where the weakest cells are full - most of the cells aren't totally full. Getting it totally full is the Balancing phase that can take a long time depending on what BMS is used. If you are using really big cells then it might be 80%full at that point - but they are cheaper/amp so you can just oversize it some. If they are small cells there will be a bunch in parallel which tend to even each other out - so it could be 95% full before it wants balancing.

Hello again Samba, I hear you there. Anytime someone hides like that I get the willies. Nice site though, if you can stand the music. I like their Ebikes, and the guy in Florida with his bike for sale. Thanks for the tip on charging.
I welcome your feedback. My tentative plans are for 48 volt LIFEPO4 30 AH cell in a framebag, between my knees. A 750 watt rear mount motor with disk brake setup. and a controller mounted to the back of the seat tube. My biggest issue is the rear dropout width is longer than standard. About 158.6 mm from inside of dropout to inside of dropout. A website selling replacement wheels for the bike states that the width is 177? mm from locknut to locknut. I read somewhere that this issue has been solved by at least one manufacturer. Also, I wish to keep my 4 in wide rear tire and rim involved as well. So I need to have a motor with disk brake, 12mm spokes, [ the biggest right?] and 4 inch wide rim, to fit a 20x4.25 tire. I sent an email to Crystalite earlier today asking if they would lace up a wide rim to a motor for me, but I forgot to stipulate the disk brake part.
Practice time for me now, see ya!.

Kick ass keytar man, I've been trying to get my hands on one of those ever since I built a DIY talkbox about two years ago.

you know what irks me about the electric motor kits that schwinnchoppers.com site has is that they look like they just electrical tape all the components together and zip tie it to the frame. couldn't these guys have tried a little harder?


while they have a super slick little smoker kit, looks like all the components belong on the bike.


pity too, cause it's such a great frame to start out with for a build. nice fat rims and tires, bitchin springer forks and that classic style. though I personally think that the seat that comes with it has to go. welcome to the sphere and good luck with your build!

RallySTX said:

I welcome your feedback. My tentative plans are for 48 volt LIFEPO4 30 AH cell in a framebag, between my knees. A 750 watt rear mount motor with disk brake setup. and a controller mounted to the back of the seat tube. My biggest issue is the rear dropout width is longer than standard. About 158.6 mm from inside of dropout to inside of dropout. A website selling replacement wheels for the bike states that the width is 177? mm from locknut to locknut. I read somewhere that this issue has been solved by at least one manufacturer. Also, I wish to keep my 4 in wide rear tire and rim involved as well. So I need to have a motor with disk brake, 12mm spokes, [ the biggest right?] and 4 inch wide rim, to fit a 20x4.25 tire. I sent an email to Crystalite earlier today asking if they would lace up a wide rim to a motor for me, but I forgot to stipulate the disk brake part.
Brian L.

Click to expand...

Brian:
Have you seen this posting?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7710&p=196417

It is possible to make perfect fit electric chopper bike with rear motor, the key thing is to have the right components.
- customer axle had been replaced
- axle spacer was used on this project
- freewheel coupler was used on the project

The components allow proper spacing and alignment to the chain ring correctly.

Another chopper bike that used the frame bag for battery mount:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17095

Ken

Thanks Gestalt and Itselectric for your response. I think the Smoker kits are cute but not relevant to my situation. You're right though, they look ok. There's another company with a better setup, they use four stroke motors!. I still couldn't use one as I live in a second floor apartment with no garage. That means I must bring the bike upstairs with me. Itselectric, you definitely got my attention. Nice website as well. I love the left hand twist throttle, and the triangle frame battery bags.
Brian L.

maybe one like this? don´t know if they are available in the US...

http://cgi.ebay.de/Chopper-City-Fahrrad-Geiles-Stadtchopper-Geiles-RAD-TOP-/270588468951?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrr%C3%A4der&hash=item3f00545ed7

much bigger than your stingray or my no-name chopper and it has a lot of space in the frame. and it´s a steel frame.

HHello again Pedalex, nice idea there. I like my Spoiler though. Looks like that's a german cruiser. I think they can be found here.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.hitchcocks.eu/ueberuns/seite2/02539498780af7302/index.html&ei=NFfITIzpIqjtnQev--GnAw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDQQ7gEwBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfelt%2Bchopper%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address%26prmd%3Div

Brian L.

Your rear dropouts are hand-sized plates and further apart than normal. You could attach a steel plate to the insides of them - a custom HD torque 'arm', but instead of attaching to one chainarm it could wrap around that dropout plate at several edges.

I am trying out one of the new aotema motors from hitekbikes. I will let you know if it has a long enough axle for your conversion. I think it would be a good compromise between a 9c and a clyte. Besides, a 9c won't lace into the chopper rim because of the narrow flange width.


I don't trust the stock 4" wide rims. They have gaps in the pinned juncture that can be seen through. They are cheap, weak, and not up to the task of 30mph riding IMO. You would be better served with a decent 16" motorcycle rim and 12 gauge spokes.

Thanks again Samba, and JRH for you interest, and support. I cringe at the idea of drilling into the frame of this bike, but there's no real way arround it for tourqe arms. John, I really admire a good Wheelwright. It takes patience and skilled work to build a good wheel. I hope to put you to work soon.