New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[Andje]

hs30 rear on 26*1.95 slicks at 100v 57 amp battery 130 phase top speed; 80km/h

[keyne]

Ok, so I got mine apart and the bearings are 6203 RS. 40mm OD, 17mm ID, 12mm wide.

What do people think of the idea of replacing the brake side bearing with 2x 6707 2RS bearings (44mm OD, 35mm ID, 5mm wide) along with a custom part to fit over the axle and inside the bearing, to provide lots of space for Phase wires and two cooling tubes? It would give an extra 9mm all around the axle! I'm pretty sure it should fit - I'll talk to my machinist friend tomorrow.

Also regarding cooling, if I were to cool this part here (red "X"s - ignore callipers -lifted from Justin's photos) would that be sufficient to cool the rest of the stator - anyone know how well it is thermally coupled to the rest of the stator and windings?

is this the section to cool?

17mm Axle.jpg (61.78 KiB) Viewed 568 times

Thirdly - regarding installing hall sensors to a sensorless motor - any fundamental reason why I couldn't feed the three thin wires through these gaps here - there is plenty of room.

hall wires through here? why not?

Space for Halls.jpg (49.69 KiB) Viewed 568 times

[Julez]

Hi guys!

I just read here about these very interesting new types of motors, and fortunatelly, the rear HT3525 will be perfect for my planned bike with a 20" rim and a 16s LiFePo4 battery. I currently use a Crystalyte 408 motor on my push trailer:
viewtopic.php?p=216230#p216230
I noticed that in the spoke holes, the stainless spokes seem to work their way through the paint, and the metal from the motor begins to rust. Is the outside of the new Hx series made from the same metal (cast steel?), so that the problem will arise eventually too? I have the idea of getting laser cut, 3mm thick rings of stainless steel, with a bolt hole pattern matching the Crystalyte spoke holes. Further outside, there will be new spoke holes. This way, I can seal the bolts well and make everything rust-proof, and the spoke holes in the stainless steel rings will not rust. What do you think of this idea?

Concerning tyres, originally, I planned to use a Street Hog 20x3.0 Tyre:
http://classic-cycle.de/Reifen-Schlaeuc ... reet%20hog

But now I have read "lifeforphysics" interesting post about using a motorcycle tyre:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=385449#p385449
Would you be so kind and tell me the exact specifiactions of this tyre?

As I cannot use the infinion controller I am familiar with, I have several questions concerning the needed 36-48 Volt 15A Rear digital sensorless controller:
http://shop.crystalyte-europe.com/produ ... 271&page=1

- Does 15A mean the controller limits the current as the infinion does (mine is programmed at 16A), or will it allow more current and burn over 15A?
- Can I have a similar cruise control function as the infinion provides? So that I can touch a button, so that the current throttle value is locked, until I touch the button or throttle again?
- What is the LVC, and can I adjust it? But this is not so important, since my BMS has LVC too.
- Can I use the voltage to the Throttle hall sensor (5V, I think) to power a small electronic circuit, drawing not more than 15mA?
- Will it be possible to lower the full throttle value by putting a poti between the throttle hall output and the input, acting as a voltage devider?

Thank you very much for your time!

Cheers,

Julian

[Spacey]

I'm of the belief that you can't really waterproof these engines, water/moisture will get into the engine somehow ...maybe even through difference in air pressure between hub and outside?

On opening a new 9C 2807 that has been used once in the rain and less than 100 miles I was surprised at the amount of moisture and rusting in the hub, so I think the solution is to treat the inside of the hub with something like Corrosion X spray and then make some holes in the side of the casing so that the water has somewhere to evaporate from.

[Julez]

Hi Spacey!

I think I have figured it out how to make Crystalytes waterproof. First thing, apply a drip loop to the cables.
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/equip ... iploop.htm
This means, if possible, install the axle in a way that the cable slot faces downwards. Otherwise, the water that trickles down the cable will be lead directly into the slot, thus entering the motor.
Second, get anti corrosion wax like the one used for cars. I did a lot of research, and found out this is the best:
http://mike.british-cars.de/
Open the motor case, and put an awful lot of it in. As times go by, it will melt and be distributed around the motor. It will not evaporate like sprays, and yet creep into the smallest gaps over time.

Third, seal the side caps with isopropyl caoutchouc. This is a black messy substance sometimes used to seal car windows. It has a consistency of tar. It gets a little harder over time, but still stays flexible so thet the removal of the parts is no problem. Apply it to the flanges, then tighten the screws.

I have my crystalyte 408 in use since early 2009, and my city has a lot of rain, it is called the capitol of rain actually. I do not have the slightest problems whatsoever.

[methods]

Experience has shown that waterproofing hubs serves only to trap water inside. A better path forward is to let the water out..... Once your hub heats up it is likely that it will steam off any water that gets in there. If it is sealed - this steam just condenses and drips back down when it cools.

I have seen a brand new motor rust nearly solid if left for a long period after the first ride on a cold night.
My own experience with riding drilled hubs in the rain and mud is that I have not had a water/rust related failure yet.

Search for past reports.... and report back what you find with your own experience.

-methods

[Spacey]

@Julez: Cheers for the advice but I have to agree with Methods, the water needs to get out. This is the second time Halls have failed.

Looking forward to trying out my HS3540 motor though, Methods are you going to be drilling holes in your HS motor? I think I will be and also coating it with anti Corrosion spray. Julez I think the best solution is treating and also giving the water a way to get out.

[methods]

Methods are you going to be drilling holes in your HS motor? I think I will be and also coating it with anti Corrosion spray. Julez I think the best solution is treating and also giving the water a way to get out.

Yes, I will be drilling the crap out of mine and probably blowing it with a small fan.

Anti corrosion sounds great - let me know when you find some that is good over 200C and does not impede cooling.

-methods

[liveforphysics]

I took the CnB approach to venting my copper-free hub.

[Spacey]

Which was?

[liveforphysics]

Which was?

Soon... soon...

[Andje]

new top speed set today using 65 amps battery 160 amps phase; 90 km/h.
The acceleration is slow and steady past 70 km/h. I'd say it would take at least 6-8 seconds to hit 90 with block time of 5. But i'm happy; faster top speed then the 9*7 now, and I'm sure i'm a lot farther from toasting this hub at those power levels .

[methods]

Interesting how you noodle the block time setting.... I just max all of them out and lower the shunt value to something that will give me >>100A
I then use my nose and ears as a current limiter.

I have been thinking about throttling back a little though so that I can spend more time riding and less time rebuilding. I like the idea of playing with the block timing to give you that extra bump without the worry.

-methods

[Andje]

lets me mess with the acceleration while not changing the top speed too. I suppose you are always hitting your max kv with your settings so less relevant, but when i was using the 9c i was using it to limit myself to 5kw cruising wot while still having excellent accel. Turning it up and down makes a huge difference to the handling; im thinking i may take mine down one more .5 so that it's just slightly harder to wheelie in 3rd speed. I'm scared of taking the batt amps past 65; lyen's controllers are good for 65 but after that he recommends the trace upgrade. I could do it i guess, but i will definitely wait till i'm ready to do the regen mod too and redo the wiring as well. One lesson i learnt from the 9c-hs30 transition is don't take apart working stuff to put on none tested stuff .
I do want to hit 100km/h though. I think i already can on a fair hill...

[methods]

You could upgrade that controller in 15 minutes.....

-methods

[Hyena]

new top speed set today using 65 amps battery 160 amps phase; 90 km/h.
The acceleration is slow and steady past 70 km/h. I'd say it would take at least 6-8 seconds to hit 90 with block time of 5

Nice. I normally set my primary current reasonably high with a shorter block time. So I can pull 80 amps all day long but spike over 100 when needed. I don't really need these restraints but block time is great for n00bs to give them good power but prevent them melting motors or phase wires when they try to lug their 150kg ass up a steep hill without pedalling. In that case lower current and long block time is the way to go.

Out of curiosity are you running advanced timing ? I'm still yet to get my new H series motors but I know with my 9C that when acceleration starts dropping off flicking into 120% timing mode gives a good boost in acceleration that very quickly gets you up to 100% speed, then I flick back into 100% mode to maintain it. This gives you the best possible acceleration without being too hard on the fets by running constantly in advanced timing mode, and is easier on the battery and wiring too as you're not drawing higher current for long.

And yeah, trace upgrades are easy. Go for gold son. If you're going to kill yourself doing 100km/hr on a push bike do it in style

[Andje]

haha. yeah... i'm aiming not to die. Feel like this bike can take it; past 75 there is a definite feeling of scary over exhilarating, but it looks like i have a need for speed. I repair bikes for a living and will upkeep every week so I don't think components will fail catastrophically. I have hundreds of hours cruising at 60+ on my ice bike, 4 years of that. I feel like I can just handle it; or at least that i am aware of the risks and aiming not to die. Maybe i'll get used to it and leisurely cruise at 50 ... Then again, I thoroughly beat two Harley's that were swerving around in the bike lane ahead of me the other day, and that was the best thing ever on a bike.

tbh that is really useful information. I wasn't aware that the 120% mode was actually an advanced timing circuit; i hadn't considered how it worked. I don't know enough about fets to know if they damage internally when pushed at 120% or if they just heat more; if it's just heat then my controller is good to go at this level, it is barely warming. But tbh i am currently using the 3 speed switch at 40/80/120. I swap to 40 if I'm behind cars stopped just in case. I run at 80 up to about 60km/h then swap to 120 for cruising or to accelerate past a car (really i am at 120% for at least 8 minutes of my 15 min commute). I could change that to a higher base amperage as you say, and run the second speed at 100% if that is specifically electrically easier then running lower amps and using the advanced timing. Otherwise I'm really happy with how it works and am getting used to the 3 speed; already thinking of it as a shifter really.
Need to true my wheels better. Past 85 even tiny imbalances are pretty significant...

[wojtek]

great stuff!

need for speed sounds like a common ground to most of us here it seems

in the end of the day, the worst that can happen is that I die. Can't it be that bad can it?

so i am just trying to relax and enjoy!

During my long trip last year i just learned one thing - to use proper tyres and inner tubes. I was going downhill over 40kmh alongside beautiful rock walls in the nature and got onto a rock on the road. The tyre blew ... if it wasn't for a bit of luck and the fact that i was riding recumbent, i would probably have applied by now for the position of the patron of the electric bike riders in heaven!

[liveforphysics]

Which was?

Soon...%20soon...

[Hyena]

hahahaha man that's killer.
You've made my photoshop from a year or so ago a reality

Now it just needs the inscription "To Aussie Jester, with love"

[wojtek]

EDIT: are you saying that you were photoshoping a gay orgy?

Now it just needs the inscription "To Aussie Jester, with love"

[Andje]

that is pretty awesome. I don't think i'd have the guts to cut mine out like that, but there could be a small business in cnc/lathing custom shaped cooling holes into hub covers . Shipping would be cheap for just the covers. You'd have to send your own covers in though unless the manufacturing has gotten so much better that the holes are truly aligned and not drilled custom for each hub/cover slightly out of true alignment.
I want one with lightning bolts or something far gayer then a bunch of cocks .

[wojtek]

that is pretty awesome. I don't think i'd have the guts to cut mine out like that, but there could be a small business in cnc/lathing custom shaped cooling holes into hub covers . Shipping would be cheap for just the covers. You'd have to send your own covers in though unless the manufacturing has gotten so much better that the holes are truly aligned and not drilled custom for each hub/cover slightly out of true alignment.
I want one with lightning bolts or something far gayer then a bunch of cocks .

.. although if you ask for the cocks shape, you will get leather cycling tights for free!

[wojtek]

but seriously in my case, i will put the HS on my velomobile- the project is designed mainly for rainy weather obviously as i am an all weather cyclist.

so making the HS as much waterproof as possible is a priority. I can take a lot of cocks if it makes my hub weather proof....

[methods]

.....in the end of the day, the worst that can happen is that I die. Can't it be that bad can it?

There are far worse things than death friend.... Like having all your skin peeled off while you sip from a straw and shit in a bag.

I would take death over a thousand other fates.

-methods