72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby Gordo » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:36 pm

oriam wrote:Hi and sorry I'm a little confused with these controllers, Anyone know which of these controllers have 100v Fet?
http://www.dhgate.com/72v-1500w-brushle ... 40253.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Br ... 348wt_1185

Thanks a lot


No one can answer this question with any certainty because we can not be sure which components will be in the next unit shipped. The model of FET changes back and forth during a month. Seems to be whatever FET is handy, is installed.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby oriam » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:10 pm

Ok thanks, I understand it is a lottery, I've asked to sellers for the type of capacitors and Fets in these controllers, but never respond me
I need put 20s Lipo
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby Gordo » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 pm

oriam wrote:Ok thanks, I understand it is a lottery, I've asked to sellers for the type of capacitors and Fets in these controllers, but never respond me
I need put 20s Lipo
Thanks of new

By reading the posts I see the guys have run them to 100V. They have also pushed 50A at 48V. They are so cheap, maybe you just buy 2-3 and see what they can take? I bought 5 but have not run them over 75V. For a few more dollars you can get a controller from Greentime built to your specs. Contact Leo Liu <chinagreentime@gmail.com>
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:14 pm

oriam wrote:Hi and sorry, I'm a little confused with these controllers, Anyone know which of these controllers have 100v Fet?
http://www.dhgate.com/72v-1500w-brushle ... 40253.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Br ... 348wt_1185

Thanks a lot

Both do. Here is the faq
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby wesnewell » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:29 am

Both of those should have 100V fets and caps. They are the same controller in the pictures.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby mauimart » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:08 am

I just received my second Hua Tong 72V 1500W controller. I installed the stock controller in my Tunigy 80-100 build and here are my results/observations:

The controller pcb revision C-D3.2 and is labeled as 38A +/- 2A instead of 40A +/-2A as my first one. Another difference is that this one has IRFB4310 FET's instead of IRFB4710's. According to the spec sheet the IRFB4310 is a better part with 5.6mOhm resistance instead of 14mOhm for the 4710. It's also rated at 140A instead of 75A however this is inconsequential as both parts are package limited to 75A. There are a few extra wires coming out, one of which is orange and has no connector.

The controller works perfectly under no load conditions - nice throttle response. However under load with about half throttle, the controller cuts-out badly. I'm not sure if the controller is reaching its current limit and then backing off, back on, etc., or if it's a timing issue that is exacerbated under load. It's possible however to exceed this limit where the power oscillations fade and the controller seems to do fine again. If you watch the video you can see when I cross over the cut-out threshold and am able to apply full power under WOT. The controller is capable of doing over 1500W continuous with very little warming of the case.

I like this controller as it is smaller than the Kelly I have and fits nicely into the box with my batteries. If I could figure out why it's so jerky in that mid-power band it would be a viable candidate for this bike. I will do a bit more testing in the stock configuration and then I'll mod the shunts with a bit more solder to see if this takes care of the cutting-out behavior or perhaps lets the smoke out.

I also tried to get the controller working in sensorless mode, as others have suggested is possible, to no avail.

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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:24 am

mauimart wrote:I just received my second Hua Tong 72V 1500W controller. I installed the stock controller in my Tunigy 80-100 build and here are my results/observations:


sounds like a phase lock issue. but then again i haven't run an rc motor.
i know this is mundane, but you should scope out your hall sensors. maybe it might provide some insight: at worst it would just eliminate a variable
oh another thing, try grounding the low or medium speed pad while using 0-100% (input) throttle. i guess that would let you diagnose the throttle side of things

very excited about this controller running rc motors. good work!
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby Gordo » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:10 am

Might be low inductance of the RC motor? The controller thinks it is looking at a short and cuts back. Make an inductor for each leg out of a few turns of wire wound around a piece of plastic pipe. See it this smooths out the motor?
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby mauimart » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:32 am

cohberg wrote:sounds like a phase lock issue. but then again i haven't run an rc motor.
i know this is mundane, but you should scope out your hall sensors. maybe it might provide some insight: at worst it would just eliminate a variable
oh another thing, try grounding the low or medium speed pad while using 0-100% (input) throttle. i guess that would let you diagnose the throttle side of things

very excited about this controller running rc motors. good work!


I'm not confident that it's a hall sensor issue as the motor works fine with the Kelly controller. I may however put the scope on it anyway to see what's going on. Perhaps noise from the phase wires is being coupled to the sensor wires as that mass of wires enters the controller in a 3/4 inch hole.

I'm not sure what you mean by grounding the speed pads?

Gordo wrote:Might be low inductance of the RC motor? The controller thinks it is looking at a short and cuts back. Make an inductor for each leg out of a few turns of wire wound around a piece of plastic pipe. See it this smooths out the motor?


The inductance of my motor should be considerably higher than the stock delta 130kV wind. It's a 9T wye wind. It would be interesting to know who else is successfully running this controller and in what specific application (hub, rc, etc.).

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:13 pm

mauimart wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by grounding the speed pads?


an errant idea honestly. k1 and k2 are high and low speed pads on the 3.1 board. Try grounding those to see if its a controller throttle input issue.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby modder » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:26 pm

maybe your voltage drop under load is initiating your LVC.

the controller is rated 72v and does not work well under 72V due to the voltage drop.

I tried at 67v and it cut out after about 100 metres.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby nonlineartom » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:10 pm

I've got one of these controllers headed my way, does it play nice at 18S, anyone have any experience running BMC / MAC motors with this controller?
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby Scottyf » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:49 pm

Tom,
I ran the one you'll be getting on 18s lipo. Never hit lvc on the controller though so cannot give a definitive lvc. Most the others said it was around 60v. Might be a bit higher.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby nonlineartom » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:57 pm

Thanks Scotty, did yo say it was sensored OR sensorless with auto switch?
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby wesnewell » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:02 pm

nonlineartom wrote:I've got one of these controllers headed my way, does it play nice at 18S, anyone have any experience running BMC / MAC motors with this controller?

I run mine on 18s most of the time. LVC will start cutting out around 60V which is perfect for 18s lipo.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby iovaykind » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 pm

As far as I know the cutoff is 63v
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:04 pm

def not cutting off due to lvc (67V or higher when controller was acting up), its clearly sagging more at wot (65V) but no choppy behavior there.
i would like to see 24s on an rc motor though :mrgreen:

mauimart, any updates on the choppiness? also what happens if you use wot right from the start?
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby mauimart » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:22 am

cohberg wrote:def not cutting off due to lvc (67V or higher when controller was acting up), its clearly sagging more at wot (65V) but no choppy behavior there.
i would like to see 24s on an rc motor though :mrgreen:

mauimart, any updates on the choppiness? also what happens if you use wot right from the start?


As far as I can tell the choppiness is not a result of LVC, throttle input, or hall sensors. I think it's simply a mediocre algorithm implementation in the control section. I modded my controller over the weekend by decreasing the resistance of the current shunt. It seems to have smoothed out the jerkyness a bit but at the same time it has accentuated the power surge at roughly 25% throttle input. Low rpm starts are smooth but once you hit that 25% threshold the controller commands a rather violent surge in power that will throw you off the back of the bike if you are not ready for it. I did do a run where the controller peaked at about 3000W input power and it seems to handle 2000W continuous without much heat output. Still not bad for the price if it could only be tamed :?

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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:47 am

mauimart wrote:I modded my controller over the weekend by decreasing the resistance of the current shunt. It seems to have smoothed out the jerkyness a bit but at the same time it has accentuated the power surge at roughly 25% throttle input. Low rpm starts are smooth but once you hit that 25% threshold the controller commands a rather violent surge in power that will throw you off the back of the bike if you are not ready for it. I did do a run where the controller peaked at about 3000W input power and it seems to handle 2000W continuous without much heat output. Still not bad for the price if it could only be tamed :?



yeah thats sounds similar to what was happening to me. it gets a lot worse at 5-6kw. to smooth out the throttle response try a variable potentiometer between the throttle output and controller or since you have a CA use current throttle.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby The Mighty Volt » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:34 pm

Is this just because we've got a change over from the "normal" hub to the outrunner with the added sensors??
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:22 pm

The Mighty Volt wrote:Is this just because we've got a change over from the "normal" hub to the outrunner with the added sensors??


To get the thread back on topic. lol.

Well yeah. mauimart is running his outrunner at much higher rpms than the standard hubs. I still think that its a hall sensor issue: the outrunner gains and looses revs so quickly + the diy halls setup (not inferring that they're poorly done just that they're not glued [thus optimal spacing and field strength calcs were purportedly done] onto the stator like the rest of us lol) that the controller is having trouble locking on for a couple revolutions during acc., then when the motor slows down it gets lock again (thus little to no problems during no load tests). Also, the controller algorithm is shitty to start with: the high rpms probably just exacerbated the problem. And Gordo's inductance comment might have merit despite the rewind: its still much higher than a hub motor.

I think with a more logarithmic throttle this could work really well! Mauimart, do try the inline throttle resistor or CA current throttle!
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby The Mighty Volt » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Cheers Cohberg- one of MauiMarts excellent youtube videos shows him running the motor and losing synchronization at the very very high RPM.

Here it is




Maybe another re-wind down again might help??
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby cohberg » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:18 pm

The Mighty Volt wrote:Cheers Cohberg- one of MauiMarts excellent youtube videos shows him running the motor and losing synchronization at the very very high RPM.

Here it is

Maybe another re-wind down again might help??



Well i don't think that with his current gearing he is hitting those rpms. Sensored and sensorless controller alike have trouble with these outrunners at high rpm. Thus lfp's controller is something like ~$1.2k, i think, and takes 3 pros to tune it optimally lol.

But sure a slower wind and different gearing might help with the lock issue, if it is a lock issue that is =P
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby Gordo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:52 pm

What is the inductance of this outrunner? If we can see the HALL's firing on a scope at slow speed, we can make a WAG as to the accuracy of their placement. Then, as we increase rpm, if we continue to watch the HALL's on a scope, we should be able to see the trace if it gets lost? Then we can make an informed comment on what is happening.
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Re: 72v 1500W 40A Hua Tong CA08 XM06AD_P04.1 controller

Postby mauimart » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:54 am

Just to clear up any confusion regarding my setups with the Hua Tong...
I have two Turnigy 80-100 outrunners:

One is a stock 130kV (delta wind I think). This one does not have internal halls installed but rather external halls at 17.4 degrees, or at least as close to 17.4 as I could do. I have powered this motor to roughly 7700rpm unloaded before the controller lost sync. Theoretically I should be able to hit 9100 rpm (70V x 130kV). I also loaded this setup with a 30 inch prop with smooth operation.

My other motor is the rewound Turnigy (9T wye). It contains internal hall sensors glued in between stator teeth at 120 deg. It's currently installed on my bike. Under no load (bike tire off the ground) acceleration is smooth over the entire rpm range. It's only while under load that it exhibits the jerky behavior and surges. I can not definitively rule out a hall sensor issues but because of the smoother performance I get with the Kelly controller (with the same hall sensors) I'm inclined to think it has something to do with the Hua Tong. If only I could find an extension cord long enough for my scope so that I can probe the hall sensors while riding the bike under load... :D

I plan to do some more testing with this controller and the outrunners in the future but for now I'm content with the Kelly. I may look into an optical solution for the sensors (Burtie's setup) and see how that goes. I have a feeling that once I get my larger battery pack and start pushing the Tunigy, the heat generation might have its way with the internal halls. We shall see.
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