The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

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The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby oatnet » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:46 pm

I thought it would be nice if we had a space where we could concentrate tech tips on this hot new motor from Greyborg in Croatia, so here it is.

My CroMotor was delivered to JRH for lacing last week, right on time, 3 weeks from payment. I haven't seen it yet, apparently there is a large number on the side, which is the serial number. I got #5, and I know someone else recently got #14 delivered. JRH reports that it is a 14mm axle, necked down to 10mm at the flats.

I also wanted to give Kudos to Accountant for superiour customer service. JRH got two motors delivered to him at the same time. He wasn't sure which was which, and seeing the large serial number on the side he thought that was the winding count. My serial number was higher, and thinking it was the winding, I was concerned I had a torquier wind, when I wanted speed. Accountant was quick to respond and extremely supportive. His chief concern was my satisfaction with the product, and right out of the gate he offered all kinds of reasonable solutions.

I think you can tell a lot more about a vendor when things go wrong, than when they go right - and I was really reassured by the way Accountant responded. Obviously, it became a non issue when we realized that we were talking about serial numbers, not windings - Accountant shipped exacly what I asked for, the only problem was my confusion. I think Greyborg has a long future ahead of it.

Lacking a Greyborg Frame v2.0, I'm putting mine on a Norco A-Line, what is yours going on? If anyone who has gotten theirs wants to post some CroMotor Pron, I am jonesing for a fix. Love to see close-ups of the phase wires coming out of the axle, the serial number, know how long the axle is etc etc etc.

-JD
Last edited by oatnet on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:13 pm

Ive got a fancy camera for a few days, I will take some pics for you when I get back to the shop 8)
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby fractal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:24 pm

subscribed!!! i will know in a couple of days if i can get one from this batch. i'll keep my fingers crossed.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby gensem » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:38 pm

johnrobholmes wrote:Ive got a fancy camera for a few days, I will take some pics for you when I get back to the shop 8)


John,
Make a video, a HD one, there is like no quality videos of thoses motors running.


Oatnet,
+1 for Accountant he has the best service I ever saw, and as I said before Hal and Him ll dominate the ebike performance market in no time.

I ended up ordering two borgs, unfortunately none has arrived yet (brazilian customs to blame).
the first one is for a fast and reliable commuter with a bicycle frame full sus frame.
the second is going in a greyborg frame for offroad fun using a crapload of amps.
Last edited by gensem on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
A decent 25mph bike will cost around $1000.
A decent 35mph bike will cost around $2000.
A $1000 35mph bike will get you killed.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby Cicada » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:02 am

Subscribed
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http://vimeo.com/51900545
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby kfong » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:41 am

I just caught info on this motor. What are the specs? How heavy is this motor?
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby gensem » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:45 am

kfong wrote:I just caught info on this motor. What are the specs? How heavy is this motor?

10kg
Specs seems to be under some sort of nondisclosure.

Teaser

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20321&start=195
Last edited by gensem on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
A decent 25mph bike will cost around $1000.
A decent 35mph bike will cost around $2000.
A $1000 35mph bike will get you killed.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby Teh Stork » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:13 am

Price?
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby gensem » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:20 am

Teh Stork wrote:Price?



400 or 450 euros but you better ask Accountant he is the sale manager of Zelena vozila AKA http://www.greyb.org/index.html
A decent 25mph bike will cost around $1000.
A decent 35mph bike will cost around $2000.
A $1000 35mph bike will get you killed.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Thread

Postby oatnet » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:24 am

Teh Stork wrote:Price?


When I ordered mine it was 400 euro plus 82 euro shipping to USA. He doesn't take PayPal which means a wire transfer in USD. Accountant gave me an exchange rate of 1.38 to use, so I sent them $665.16, and my bank charged $30 for the international wire transfer.

However, the exchange rate might have changed, and that was the first batch of motors, which has since sold out. Vladimir ordered a sizeable QTY for the next batch, but who knows what market forces might do to increase or decrease his cost.

-JD
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby oatnet » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:41 am

Boy does that motor look good, Andreym posted some pics over on the general Greyborg For-Sale thread:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20321&start=195#p491325

Following in the footsteps of methods/knuckles/Fechter etc, I created this technical thread because For-Sale posts eventually get auto-deleted, and this one will not.

-JD
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby dbaker » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:55 am

JD,

Do you see what I meant by the disc rotor location relative to the axle step in the photo? When you add the thickness of the rotor and the rotor bolt heads you will have to use spacer washers to keep those rotor bolt heads from digging into your dropouts. You will also have to manage the rotor/chain & seat stay interference and brake caliper mounting location. My Hayes caliper and 203mm rotor fit with some clearance.

:twisted: 8)
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby oatnet » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:49 pm

dbaker wrote:JD,

Do you see what I meant by the disc rotor location relative to the axle step in the photo? When you add the thickness of the rotor and the rotor bolt heads you will have to use spacer washers to keep those rotor bolt heads from digging into your dropouts.


Yeah, looking at Andreym's pics, I do. The Norco A-line I am using is 150mm, so I plan on putting spacers on both sides anyhow. The A-Line has removable dropouts, I am hoping to handle spacing issues with the replacements I'm having machined. :roll: I'll probably throw a disk brake on there, but on other bikes I have just used regen for the rear brake.

I LOVE that thick axle - plenty of flats for a torque arm, the phase wires are brought out the right way, but I am suprised that the italian guy was able to get 250a through them.

-JD

Here are a few of Andreym's pics as a reference:

IMG_5519.JPG
IMG_5519.JPG (98.67 KiB) Viewed 9390 times


IMG_5527.JPG
IMG_5527.JPG (66.95 KiB) Viewed 9390 times


IMG_5522.JPG
IMG_5522.JPG (85.72 KiB) Viewed 9390 times


IMG_5528.JPG
IMG_5528.JPG (93.81 KiB) Viewed 9390 times
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby The Mighty Volt » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:01 pm

Very neat, thanks for the photos, looks a brute of a motor.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:25 pm

Can someone confirm if it's the width of 3 x 9c stators?

I'm drooling at the thought of so much less end-turn losses. Should have a pretty crazy high saturation current as well.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby oatnet » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:00 pm

liveforphysics wrote:Can someone confirm if it's the width of 3 x 9c stators?
I'm drooling at the thought of so much less end-turn losses. Should have a pretty crazy high saturation current as well.


I don't have it on-hand to measure, but here is a picture of the stator, it has had me drooling too - out of several orafices, I might add. :oops: :lol:

-JD

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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby chroot » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:29 pm

Please someone send vids in youtube as in action I.E. 9x7 9C vs CroMotor! 8)

How difference between xlyte 5403 vs this CroMotor and who best? :lol:
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby The Mighty Volt » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:38 pm

chroot wrote:Please someone send vids in youtube as in action I.E. 9x7 9C vs CroMotor! 8)

How difference between xlyte 5403 vs this CroMotor and who best? :lol:


Cro has already gone on record as saying that, all other things being equal, this motor is "better than any motor Crystalyte make".

Pretty big claim, but that motor looks savage. Its basically a Moped motor, on a bike.

My main concern now is its behaviour....specifically the question of how quickly it reaches the state of BEMF....does it exhibit slow-winding or fast-winding characteristics.

This is critical because JohnInCr, who seems to have pioneered riding with a moped motor, has encountered issues whereby his bike, with a 20" wheel, needs to hit 30mph before the BEMF begins to tame the current draw and limit the amps the controller has to deal with. There is the potential for these motors to blow controllers like Divine Brown blows Englishmen.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby chroot » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:45 pm

Great, I am looking forward someone show the vids on cromotor and compare other motors. I agree with your comment and we need find out all how the cromotor behavior and stuff.

PS. Lets get one for Luke to test it like he did blow up his HS35 with full of the PLASMA! :lol: :lol: 8)
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:25 pm

chroot wrote:Great, I am looking forward someone show the vids on cromotor and compare other motors. I agree with your comment and we need find out all how the cromotor behavior and stuff.

PS. Lets get one for Luke to test it like he did blow up his HS35 with full of the PLASMA! :lol: :lol: 8)



I do have a motorcycle dyno that can measure up to 350hp, power supplies that can do 30,000w all day and all night, and battery banks that could burst over 1,000kw. And controllers that can deliver 650 phase amps continuously at 116v.

So, yeah, I think I could find the limits and make some plasma with one. :-)
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby texaspyro » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:07 pm

liveforphysics wrote:So, yeah, I think I could find the limits and make some plasma with one. :-)


I've fired up the popcorn popper.... I'm awaiting the videos... :twisted:
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby liveforphysics » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:32 pm

texaspyro wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:So, yeah, I think I could find the limits and make some plasma with one. :-)


I've fired up the popcorn popper.... I'm awaiting the videos... :twisted:



Somebody send me a victim. You know I don't disappoint. :-)
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby gensem » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:36 pm

Thats going to be an expensive barbecue.
A decent 25mph bike will cost around $1000.
A decent 35mph bike will cost around $2000.
A $1000 35mph bike will get you killed.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby John in CR » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:28 pm

Anyone know the Kv of these. I'm guessing 15-16ish rpm/volt based on the Italian guy's reported results at high voltage, and if so it's probably a 2 turn, and good luck driving it above 100A. However, 100A is going to be fun with what appears to be a 50mm stator. My main motors are only 40mm and pretty fun. My larger diameter motor is the only hubbie I have with a 50mm lamination stack, and it's big time fun in a 19" diameter wheel. :twisted: Plan on buying controllers 2 at a time if you want to push performance.

You guys are going to have fun with this one. I understand it's pretty light weight for such a big motor, so it will be interesting to find out where they shaved the weight. What's the thickness of the magnet backing ring for example? I heard the motor ran pretty hot at high speed. I'm curious if we're starting to see high enough operating frequency for iron losses to really kick in, or did they save weight with less steel in the core resulting in needing to go to saturation for enough current, or was the bike just improperly geared with too large a wheel for that voltage? I ask because my motor has never run hot on the highway.
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Re: The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

Postby Philistine » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:38 am

What guage are the phase wires? They look like 12, but it is hard to tell given the size of the motor (ie, the hugeness of the motor might make the wires look smaller than they are).

Are there any more still available from Accountant or are they all sold now?

Please Oatnet hurry up and clean off your orifi and lace that bad boy up and get us some reports up here.....
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