The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

[gensem]

Nice

Better have some really strong spokes.

When say strong, you mean something like a 12ga sapin?

[fractal]

Nice

Better have some really strong spokes.

When say strong, you mean something like a 12ga sapin?

oh yeah 12 minimum. JRH is the man for that

[chroot]

If you are near ilia (ebike-sf) in San Francisco, He can do lacing to the rim, true balance and He is using sipam spokes.

[gensem]

Im in Brazil -.-

[chroot]

.

[oatnet]

oh yeah 12 minimum. JRH is the man for that

Yeah, JRH is putting mine into moto rims/spokes/tires.

-JD

[fractal]

oh yeah 12 minimum. JRH is the man for that

Yeah, JRH is putting mine into moto rims/spokes/tires.

-JD

What size tire and rim??? It will fit your A-line?

[oatnet]

What size tire and rim??? It will fit your A-line?

That's the plan... Talk to JRH and he'll hook you up.

-JD

[andreym]

Can someone confirm if it's the width of 3 x 9c stators?
I'm drooling at the thought of so much less end-turn losses. Should have a pretty crazy high saturation current as well.

I`m sorry to disappoint you Luke, but it looks like it`s only 2 X 9C width

here is the pictures from http://www.greyb.org/assembler.html
I believe it is the same motor. So stator and magnets of "CroMotor" looks like 55mm and we all know 9C is 28mm





I still have not opened mine, but when I do, I promise to take detailed pictures of the inside

btw here is my serial number on the disk brake side cover

[andreym]

Some additional motor pron and more accurate measurements

the stator and magnets appear to be ONLY 50mm width though 5404 is only 42mm


































oversized pictures can be found here https://picasaweb.google.com/1108717824 ... fdrLnIlQE#

[dbaker]

Great pictures What do you think of the screws holding it together? Were they all in good condition or did some have poor threads? What is your opinion of the rotor mount?

[itchynackers]

10kg of pure, unadulterated awesomeness.

[The Mighty Volt]

18X4....what is that, a wind??

Looks a great motor alright.

[liveforphysics]

From this picture, it appears to share the ~200mm stator diameter with the 9C. I was hoping it was Magic Pie diameter. Still the biggest baddest bicycle frocky out there right now though, so I'm not complaining.




It's twice the width of a 9C.

They are both 51teeth and 46poles. (or 23 pole pairs if you're a fancy pants)

The tooth/slot profile looks identical to a 9C.

The 18x4 winding works out to be 72 pieces of copper in the slot though, which is not possible to fit (getting more than an 8x8 at 64pieces is extremely difficult), which tells us it's either using a smaller wire gauge size in the 9C stator lam, or it's a larger/deeper slot. I think they normally wind with 24 awg wire pretty universally for most all hubmotors, so I would like to think it's a deeper slot, which would make it even better than a pair of 9C motors in a single motor, with 50% less end-turn copper loss (which is a pretty huge advantage alone).

A normal 9C's distance measured from the top of the tooth to the steel hub they are pressed upon is 17.25mm.
A normal 9C's slot depth from top of the tooth(edge above the slot) to bottom of the slot is 15.1mm.
A normal 9C's slot width is ~5.2mm (hard to measure well on my wound motor example I'm looking at).

The OD of the enameled wire on a normal 9C is 0.56-0.58mm (the varnish thickness varies slightly), the copper is 0.51mm 24awg.


If we could get some slot dimensions of this motor to compare to the 9C's slot dimensions, and the diameter of the wire used, we should be able to determine pretty well if this motor is indeed a double-wide 9C. Which would be pretty great, way less copper loss from end-turns than running a pair of 9C motors, and the 9C has an excellent magnetic design.

I would hoping it would turn out to be a triple wide magic pie... but this is still fantastic.

[nicobie]

Twice the width of a 9C AND 50% less end turn losses! No wonder they say it goes like hell.

Well... it looks like I'm going to be out another 6-7 hundred $ soon.

[John in CR]

50mm lamination stack, but only the common diameter stator....Sorry, you guys are still playing catchup. Hubmonster is still the Sheriff, especially with the 36-4110's ventilated beast of a controller I just picked up. It's great to see the over-priced/under-performing Xlytes put in their place with a commercial offering though, so 2nd place still has it's advantages. FWIW, the 50mm stator does finally put you guys past my 40mm hubbies I've been using for 3 years, but they did only cost $125 plus shipping, including a controller, DC/DC converter, moto rim and spokes, which no one's been able to touch in price/performance ratio.

The question remains of how many turns. Those end turns sure look like my 2 turn motors, and if so, plan on buying your controllers 2 at a time and watch the phase wire temps.

John

[oatnet]

Thanks for the Pron Andreym! Anyone have a Kleenex?

I guess you got serial number '1'. I can see how JRH might have thought that was the number of turns, when #4 and #5 showed up at the same time.

The tooth/slot profile looks identical to a 9C.

Thanks for the technical analysis Luke, it really whets my appetite for this motor. I thought it look 9-c ish too, but I thought that about the HX so I don't have refined enough of an eye to offer up that conclusion. Funny, when Kenny tried to switch the 54xx order onto HX motors, I commented that if he made it 50mm I'd think about it... Let's get an arms race going on hub motors, next up a 60mm hubbie with just a single-speed on it... Oh damn I need another Kleenex.

-JD

[flathill]

50mm lamination stack, but only the common diameter stator....Sorry, you guys are still playing catchup. Hubmonster is still the Sheriff, especially with the 36-4110's ventilated beast of a controller I just picked up. It's great to see the over-priced/under-performing Xlytes put in their place with a commercial offering though, so 2nd place still has it's advantages. FWIW, the 50mm stator does finally put you guys past my 40mm hubbies I've been using for 3 years, but they did only cost $125 plus shipping, including a controller, DC/DC converter, moto rim and spokes, which no one's been able to touch in price/performance ratio.

$125 for motor/controller/andmore? Why aren't you sharing the wealth? Haha

How much do you think the QS3000W costs factory direct? Who makes this motor? Can we mod these ourselves (add disc brake adapter, spoke holes, and axel flats..is that all there is to it)? I think the 13" motors may be overkill for a street bicycle as the 10" is more stealthy and is about the max practical width so it looks perfect to me. I hate the looks of the magic pie and scooter wheels personally

[The Mighty Volt]

50mm lamination stack, but only the common diameter stator....Sorry, you guys are still playing catchup. Hubmonster is still the Sheriff, especially with the 36-4110's ventilated beast of a controller I just picked up. It's great to see the over-priced/under-performing Xlytes put in their place with a commercial offering though, so 2nd place still has it's advantages. FWIW, the 50mm stator does finally put you guys past my 40mm hubbies I've been using for 3 years, but they did only cost $125 plus shipping, including a controller, DC/DC converter, moto rim and spokes, which no one's been able to touch in price/performance ratio.

$125 for motor/controller/andmore? Why aren't you sharing the wealth? Haha

How much do you think the QS3000W costs factory direct? Who makes this motor? Can we mod these ourselves (add disc brake adapter, spoke holes, and axel flats..is that all there is to it)? I think the 13" motors may be overkill for a street bicycle as the 10" is more stealthy and is about the max practical width so it looks perfect to me. I hate the looks of the magic pie and scooter wheels personally

I got my 1500w rated motor for the same money. I probably will never use it in anger- what I am going to do is use it as a template to draw up and then weld-up a rear-end which is specifically designed for these moped-style motors.

Externally my own motor displays many similarities with those mentioned here, including increased width and decreased weight respective to the X5 series.

Exciting times.

[gensem]

50mm lamination stack, but only the common diameter stator....Sorry, you guys are still playing catchup. Hubmonster is still the Sheriff, especially with the 36-4110's ventilated beast of a controller I just picked up. It's great to see the over-priced/under-performing Xlytes put in their place with a commercial offering though, so 2nd place still has it's advantages. FWIW, the 50mm stator does finally put you guys past my 40mm hubbies I've been using for 3 years, but they did only cost $125 plus shipping, including a controller, DC/DC converter, moto rim and spokes, which no one's been able to touch in price/performance ratio.

The question remains of how many turns. Those end turns sure look like my 2 turn motors, and if so, plan on buying your controllers 2 at a time and watch the phase wire temps.

John

im pretty sure everything else aside the hub motor was crap (even the hub had flaws) and that was before the inflation....

[John in CR]

im pretty sure everything else aside the hub motor was crap (even the hub had flaws) and that was before the inflation....

I take it you mean the H35 motors. It wasn't the motor, since the stator of the motor of this thread may come out of the same factory. The magnet backing ring is obviously for a moto with the XL spoke holes. They just used a bike hubbie axle and covers. Good ole Kenny just ordered the wrong combination of parts to slap together and then pawns it off as some big new deal without even testing his parts combination.

I'd trust HAL and Accountant to do it right long before putting faith in Kenny.

Flathill,
There was a complete lack of interest here in scooter hubbies 2 and 3 years ago, and the factory I tracked down was the only one I could find that did spoke flanges instead of built on rims. I tried pushing them to do some with bike friendly axles and covers, but I couldn't swing the 10,000 unit minimum they wanted for the special order. They just couldn't fathom that anyone would want to put a hubbie they use for emotos on an ebike. I on the other hand can't fathom why anyone would put a relatively low power motor on a 300lb pig.

There's all kinds of motor bargains out there, and I'm just really waiting for better controllers to drive the higher Kv hubbies I already have and the biggie which is lower battery prices for the good stuff that is safe enough to go on something for sale.

[gensem]

John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded???
is my calculations right?

doesnt seem right.

[The Mighty Volt]

John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded? ???
is my calculation right?

doesnt seem right.

665RPM at 70v isn't especially high, that's X5304 territory. That's reassuring, it might not be, to use IceCube's expression, it might not be such an "amps whore" after all.

[gensem]

John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded? ???
is my calculation right?

doesnt seem right.

665RPM at 70v isn't especially high, that's X5304 territory. That's reassuring, it might not be, to use IceCube's expression, it might not be such an "amps whore" after all.

but the kv cant be right, it shoulda be somewhere in between the 03 an 04
I was expecting something toward 770rpm at 70v

[teklektik]

...it might not be such an "amps whore" after all.

This could open up use to a larger but slightly less 'Woo-Hoo!' demographic.
Really really wanting some detailed empirical measurements. (hint, hint: get building guys... )