9C 2810 Fried?

[Tommy L]

double check the continuity of the phased wires to each other also. each of the phase wires is connected to the others at the wye junction and so if one of the windings is broken, it will show as an open between two phases. BOL

Checked between phase wires and I have Full Continuity!

Tommy L sends....\\m//

[Tommy L]

I've seen much worse. Looks toasty but I bet the windings are ok. Solder up that wire, and it might work again unless you cooked off some halls, or the little board. If the board is roasted, you can just wire the halls without it.

Good call on the windings. They did look ok to me. Going to solder that hall up now!
How do I tell if the board is roasted?

Hell, you didn't even combust the tie back strings completely, so it wasn't above 451 F.

lol and the Zip Ties were not melted, but they are broken on the backside.

It's not easy to get a couple more wires into those 9c axles, unless you drill em and weaken the axle. I just put a temp sensor on the axle, tucked into the dropout slot. When I see 120F on the axle stub, it's going to be 170F or more inside. I have had good luck with motors lasting, if I keep the axle temp below 120F. But , there is a considerable time lag, so if climbing hard enough, you might need to adjust, and stop or do cooldown riding sooner.

What are you using for a temp probe? BBQ Meat Style?

I've learned that carrying enough battery to take a long ride with high wattage is foolish. Why carry enough to cook off the motor? So I lightened up 5 ah, and tend to head for home in time now. 700wh is plenty, and the trails are close to my house so I can go home, cool off the motor, and go out again after a quick recharge.

Yes, this was a little much and I'd thought about not doing it, but Ypedal saw that I wasn't hill climbing and was out on the open roads at speeds
that assist in cooling. I didn't do a proper cool down. I was stupid!

With that controller, I'd say go straight for the hubzilla or a 5400 or a scooter motor goood for 5000w.

The METHODS 7225 controller is perfect for that motor. 9C 2810 100v 30amp max .......once this motor winds out to max speed 50-60kph/30-40mph
it only draws 900-1200watts in most level terrain WOT anyways and is fairly efficient.

I like my method of learning.... you know.... Experiment - Observe - Take notes
I'm most positive that you do the same!

Thank you for your response Dogman! I greatly appreciated it!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[dnmun]

so if this works we will call you lucky tommy, L Tommy.

[Tommy L]

so if this works we will call you lucky tommy, L Tommy.

lol, Thank you for your assistance on this one dnmun. Do you have a first name?

Soldering as we speak!

Tommy "hoping to be lucky" L sends.... \\m//

[dnmun]

unlucky dennis.

after you solder up the 5V power on the hall sensor board, and before you assemble the motor again, you can power it up with the controller to check the operation of the hall sensors.

do not connect the phase wires or throttle, just the 5 pin halls connector, verify the 5V between red and black and then measure the voltage on each GBY hall lead when you move a magnet in front of the hall sensor. the voltage should toggle on and off as you sweep the magnet back and forth.

[Tommy L]

unlucky dennis.

after you solder up the 5V power on the hall sensor board, and before you assemble the motor again, you can power it up with the controller to check the operation of the hall sensors.

do not connect the phase wires or throttle, just the 5 pin halls connector, verify the 5V between red and black and then measure the voltage on each GBY hall lead when you move a magnet in front of the hall sensor. the voltage should toggle on and off as you sweep the magnet back and forth.

Unlucky "D"

Priceless info... Just got it soldered and ready to assemble. This post came in on awesome timing!

Tommy L

[Tommy L]

Here are my "Hall" voltage findings...

Red to Black..... 4.74v
Red to Green...3.95v toggle to -0.5v
Red to Blue.....3.95v toggle to -0.5v
Red to Yellow..3.95v toggle to -0.5v

Hoping this is good to go for assembly


Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[dnmun]

lucky dog, usually you measure from the ground.

double check the phase wires for melting where they go into the hub at that hole in the axle inside. they may be melted together.

[Tommy L]

lucky dog, usually you measure from the ground.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

lucky dog, usually you measure from the ground.

double check the phase wires for melting where they go into the hub at that hole in the axle inside. they may be melted together.

Thank you Denis!

I did the test on the wires out side the axle. I had to cut the hall and phase to get the covers all the way off.
So looks like I'm good to go. Checking at the axle. On the 9C 2810, they have all the wires Phase and Halls encased
in a rubber cover with a Spring wire wrapped around the outer insulation where it enters the axle.
From the looks of the inside, I pushed this to where it was just getting a little too hot.


Tommy "got lucky" L sends..... \\m//

[Tommy L]

It's ALIVE!

Note to self.......Place washers and Axle Nut on wires before soldering and heat shrinking connectors back on!. Not just the cover plate!

Well, on the bright side, soldering iron is still hot. lol

Thank you to all for your wisdom/input ES Members!


Tommy L sends.... \\m// Rocking Onward every single day! \\m//

[dnmun]

you should have torque arms in there too. a lot at this power. BOL

now we will call you LT

[SamTexas]

Very lucky!

[Tommy L]

you should have torque arms in there too. a lot at this power. BOL

now we will call you LT

Pretty heavy Swing Arm with 0.27 including paint! lol

I've got the DoctorBass Torque arms here. Just trying to get the time to install them.

I'm 49 years old. I'm very easy on the throttle and use regen for emergencies.

Probably going to put this setup on another bike and go for another motor now.

HS3540? I would like to stay in a 26" rim. Mostly back country 50mph roads to ride here.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[dogman]

Awesome. Exactly how I felt when my roasted 2810 came back to life. In my case all three phase wires had melted the solder and disconnected. Soldered em back, after pulling toasty wire through the hub to have fresh wire inside the axle. Cut off the wire that had been inside the axle, and reattached everything.

That motor runs my longtail cargo bike now. Unbelievable. All my string had combusted to ash, so it had been really hot. You guessed it, no thermometer on it that day.

I have been using cheapo indoor outdoor car thermometers. About 10 bucks at walmart or the autozone. I tuck the sensor under the axle in the dropout slot, then cover with a foam scrap to keep it from wind cooling. The axle is directly metal connected to your windings, so it warms up more consistently than a hub cover. Cover temps are too affected by weather.

[Ypedal]

heh heh heh... .. those windings are not even slightly charred.. the + hall wire was poorly done at the factory but in this case it's a good thing as you now know how close to the limit you really are.

30 amps just seems so.. wussy... i dunno man.. double digit amps is small league

[Tommy L]

heh heh heh... .. those windings are not even slightly charred.. the + hall wire was poorly done at the factory but in this case it's a good thing as you now know how close to the limit you really are.

30 amps just seems so.. wussy... i dunno man.. double digit amps is small league

I'm thinking that this isn't the motor to push. lol CHARRED! lmao! no no..... it looked good. Still a little smelly
I Cranked 3kw + thru this motor for nearly 30min. Impressive without Char! lol
30amps @ 128v is 3.8kw! .......wussy? lmao I don't count in amps man..... lol watts or Kw for me!

I'm trying to take the Female pins out of the hall jst connector to pass them thru the washer and nuts! Any ideas? I can't seem to find the release.

Thanks for chiming in here..... I was secretly slamming you for pushing this motor! lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[Tommy L]

Awesome. Exactly how I felt when my roasted 2810 came back to life. In my case all three phase wires had melted the solder and disconnected. Soldered em back, after pulling toasty wire through the hub to have fresh wire inside the axle. Cut off the wire that had been inside the axle, and reattached everything.

That motor runs my longtail cargo bike now. Unbelievable. All my string had combusted to ash, so it had been really hot. You guessed it, no thermometer on it that day.

I have been using cheapo indoor outdoor car thermometers. About 10 bucks at walmart or the autozone. I tuck the sensor under the axle in the dropout slot, then cover with a foam scrap to keep it from wind cooling. The axle is directly metal connected to your windings, so it warms up more consistently than a hub cover. Cover temps are too affected by weather.

Thank you Dogman! This is excellent info! I will get a In/outdoor Thermometer and I'll insulate and wrap tight!
I didn't replace any wires. That will have to wait for another day....

Tommy L sends... \\m//

[nicobie]

If you decide on an H series motor, I'd go for the Ht3525 over the Hs3540 because of the voltage you run. My Ht3525 on 99v (hoc), 60a battery / 150a phase in a 25" O.D. tire will go 43 mph. I't's more effcient at the high voltage you run and has 5% more copper for 5% more over all power too.

Are you familiar with ebikes.ca simulator? http://ebike.ca/simulator/

Do a comparison with different motors and power levels. Don't believe people that tell you that the H series aren't any better than the 9c type motors. I'm sure that they mean no harm, it's just that they don't know any better.

[knoxie]

glad you got the motor back yes done this on a BMC and in some ways if you are lucky the poor Chinese soldering on the phase wires tends to let go before the windings! well it did in my case, temp sensors are fine and dandy but you will find with experience and a bit more riding you will know when to back off just on the CA readings and assessing the local conditions alone, in the winter of course you can push it harder.

Looking forward to seeing some more ride videos from you

[Sacman]

On the 9C 2810, they have all the wires Phase and Halls encased
in a rubber cover with a Spring wire wrapped around the outer insulation where it enters the axle.
From the looks of the inside, I pushed this to where it was just getting a little too hot.

Hey Tommy can you post a pic of that? You and I got the same motor from Methods. Thanks

[parajared]

I would recommend TG3 temp sensor because you can read the display on a sunny day:
http://www.amazon.com/Moores-Ideal-Prod ... sensor+tg3


I like it better than hobby king's VT sensor. It is small, and very light so you can stick it on your bike/cycle analyst with just a piece of sticky velcro.

Crystalyte used to be awesome. From what I have heard their new "H series" motor isn't so great though. Go X series, 5 series, or hubzilla.

You can also find broken (ie dead battery, fried controller) down electric bikes with the older cyrstalites on craigslist for fairly cheap.

[Ypedal]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17932&hilit=9c+buzz&start=15

I have used headcase batteries in a backpack too.. lol.. the jb weld did not quiet the buzzzz but that motor still runs.

[Tommy L]

Do a comparison with different motors and power levels. Don't believe people that tell you that the H series aren't any better than the 9c type motors. I'm sure that they mean no harm, it's just that they don't know any better.

Great info...... I like it here on the ES, but you still have to objectively read through the mess of intention. lol

A few here have the HT3525 and like it a High Voltage. I've already have the 18fet4115 Lyen. Lyen says that the
HS3540 is a great match for his controller. Trying to decide between these two for the next build.
I will probably end up with both and test side by side.....lol cause that's what some of us crazy's do here! lmao!

I appreciate the input!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

Looking forward to seeing some more ride videos from you

I had the GoPro Hero2 on the whole last run! lmao! I actually passed some HARLEY's!
Then I waited for them to catch up at a Stop sign and turned in their direction and Cranked it!
They new I was electric!

Tommy L sends.... more vid of this to follow! \\m//