Chinese Connection

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Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 10:47 am

Dear Endless-sphere members,

I have been a fan of this forum for almost 2 years but I did not join because I felt I had nothing significant to contribute. But I have learned so much here and now it is time to return something back to all of you. I was inspired by this forum to contact ecrazyman directly and together in the past months we have been working on improving his 72V PWM controller designs. I just ordered 10 modified 72V 30 amp controllers (w/ 100V fets and caps) and I will sell them on ebay. Virtually all my ideas come from countless hours reading thru this forum (and other forums). I am a ChE but I didn't know shit about ebikes until I started reading this forum. I now have six bikes (my kids are my test pilots) and my best is my front hub 72V 30 amp Nirve Tension Chopper with 24 a123's in the forks with added NiMH bats in rear saddlebags.

30 MPH+ and a real JOY to ride. See ... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4160

So imagine if you will that we now have our own controller factory in China that will make us WHATEVER we want! Shipping comes direct to me from Hong Kong by 3-day UPS. This is now a reality. I am buying 10-20 units at a time (awesome pricing btw) and members here WILL and MUST enjoy a discount for any desired controller products.

Everything I have learned I have learned here so now it is time to share with (and give back to) all of you. So I figured I would start this topic and see what happens.

-Cheers
Last edited by Knuckles on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby TylerDurden » Fri May 02, 2008 11:13 am

Sweet.

Of course, everybody will be eager for details... and we luuuuuuuvvv pix. 8)
Have a Nice Day,

TD

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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 11:35 am

Sure. I'll post many pics soon (just ordered a new digital camera).

I actually bought 3 of his original 72V 28 amp controllers which work OK but he had used 75V mosfets (this not good) and he set the cut-off at 62V (too high IMO). The controller works well but refuses to operate over 82V (correction I now have these at 86V no-problem) and cuts-off prematurely at 62V (this is still true). So I told him to SLOW down buck-a-roo. Don't sell these here in USA. So now he bumped up the fets to 100V (I have fet spec sheet) and set cut-off to 59V.

10 test units are on there way to me now.

I also suggested he install a potentiometer so as to make a variable cut-off between (29 and 59V). He is actually designing this now. Totally cool crazy dude EE he is. I say Toa Chie a lot when we skype.

Also working on 72V 40 and 50 amp versions using the 4110 fets. Basically anything we can dream up he will make for us. Pretty neat Huh? We got our own controller fabricator now.

PS If any one did already buy his 72V 28 amp let me know and I'll do my best to swap it out with the "corrected" controller version. I'll be testing these controllers very hard as I impress upon him that quality is essential.

btw I was inspire to contact crazy dude because of this thread ... viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2615

-Cheers
Last edited by Knuckles on Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby TylerDurden » Fri May 02, 2008 11:45 am

Ding-Ho, baby.

This has potential.

:mrgreen:
Have a Nice Day,

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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby drewjet » Fri May 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Sweet! When will you have them available, and best guess on price?
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby lazarus2405 » Fri May 02, 2008 12:29 pm

Well, first off, welcome! Everyone has something to contribute, even if it's just "that looks nice!" and "this is my ride...". Glad to have you.

Second off, that is absolutely wonderful! We only very recently have decent stock controllers from Crystalyte (4110 FETs, etc) through ebikes.ca, but supplies are very limited and they're pretty expensive. So, the need really, really is there.

So now he bumped up the fets to 100V (I have fet spec sheet)


Mind sharing it? What FET model? What about the on resistance? How much continuous current?

I also suggested he install a potentiometer so as to make a variable cut-off between (29 and 59V). He is actually designing this now.


Wonderful! However, can you ask him to make the cutoff range wider? Since different people use such a wide range of packs and voltages, the wider the better.

Can you also see if he can add a pot to adjust the current limit?

Also working on 72V 40 and 50 amp versions using the 4110 fets.


Nice. In these, how many FETs are planned? And what about the capacitors? They need to be 100v rated, and as big as possible on the high-amp units.

There is a market for even higher power hot-rodded controllers. If you could work with him for something that could run in the 50a-80a range, with a pot for an adjustable current limit, and willing to operate at a 100v battery voltage, for the folks making high-powered setups.

There might also be a market for 150v-equipped controllers, maybe 5-10 units. There are a folks running in the 90v-150v range, some on the 4110 FETs and some on 150v FETs. The 4110s are okay under ~115v, but its a knife-edge there. It might be too far out of the mainstream, though. (I'd sure buy one.)

And finally, can the connectors and wire colors be standardized with Crystalyte motors/controllers and ebikes.ca's connectors? That is Anderson powerpoles on the battery and motor phase wires, mini-XLR for the Hall sensor connectors, and, perhaps, a 6-pin connector for the CycleAnalyst? (specific info can be found on ebikes.ca's site. They'll work with you.)

So, thanks again. Let me know what's realistic and what isn't.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Link » Fri May 02, 2008 1:52 pm

lazarus2405 wrote:with a pot for an adjustable current limit


YES.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby fechter » Fri May 02, 2008 3:49 pm

Nice work. Looking forward to test results. The 100v, 4110 units will sell like hot cakes.

Make sure the main caps are hefty. Post pics when you get a chance.

Next challenge:
Can they make LiFeP04 BMS circuits for us? We even have the schematics...
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 4:03 pm

Wow,

Just got in the door and such a great response.

I can address all these inquires (and I will) but please realize that this forum now controls the process. The manufacture(s) are now finally "getting it". WE ARE IN CONTROL.

Basically everything and anything is very possible (IMO). This is the way it should be after all. Yes?

PS The days of $200 controllers ARE OVER!!! We live in an international community and all we need do now is ASK FOR WHAT WE WANT!

-Cheers and much more to say.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby vanilla ice » Fri May 02, 2008 4:12 pm

Cool. I've bought a few brushed/brushless controllers from that guy on my ebay account. I'm curious what percent of his biz this forum makes for :P
Last edited by vanilla ice on Fri May 02, 2008 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby fechter » Fri May 02, 2008 4:13 pm

Knuckles wrote:Wow,

Just got in the door and such a great response.

I can address all these inquires (and I will) but please realize that this forum now controls the process. The manufacture(s) are now finally "getting it". WE ARE IN CONTROL.

Basically everything and anything is very possible (IMO). This is the way it should be after all. Yes?

PS The days of $200 controllers ARE OVER!!! We live in an international community and all we need do now is ASK FOR WHAT WE WANT!

-Cheers and much more to say.


Dude, you rock. :twisted:

It's about time we got hooked up, but I've seen arrangements like this fail in the past, so caution is still advised. There could be quality control issues too, but if you do enough volume and the price is low enough, you can trash bad ones and still come out ahead.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 4:34 pm

I had planned on addressing questions in order but 'fechter' rules so let me say this ...

All I did was talk to the guy. I just took the time to say hello and chill and talk tech. It just took off on it's own. We started on ebay (1 item) and then just started brain storming.

I got throttles from him. 2.5 amp 36V SLA chargers and then we got heavy into controller discussion. email became a pain so I turned him on to skype and we've been rock'n ever since.

I believe this is the real deal. So far he has kept EVERY promise made. ecrazyman is a pissa (yah I'm from New York - Lawn Guy Land - F**k'n hey)

I'm an engineer so I can do a little tech dance too. That's all it took. We are all just human. You want somethin ... just ask for it (politely of course).

Funny thing ... He writes pretty good English (a bit broken) and I respond to him in like a broke English too! (Me thinks I am turning Chinese!) It's just fun and incredibly productive dialogue!

But none of it would have ever happened without this forum. This forum is my true inspiration.

-My name is Bob btw but my friends call me Knuckles (long story)
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby lazarus2405 » Fri May 02, 2008 4:48 pm

yah I'm from New York... my friends call me Knuckles (long story)


Uhoh... That sounds threatening.... :wink:

The 100v, 4110 units will sell like hot cakes.


Indeed. Ebikes.ca can't keep them in stock at $300 apiece. As long as these controllers are just as good, you can sell them for less in greater quantities.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 4:58 pm

lazarus2405 wrote:
yah I'm from New York... my friends call me Knuckles (long story)


Uhoh... That sounds threatening.... :wink:

I am a man of peace (OK I'm a knucklehead)

The 100v, 4110 units will sell like hot cakes.


Indeed. Ebikes.ca can't keep them in stock at $300 apiece. As long as these controllers are just as good, you can sell them for less in greater quantities.


These days are over
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 5:09 pm

drewjet wrote:Sweet! When will you have them available, and best guess on price?


For 72V 30 amp controller (tested)
My thoughts on price are as follow ...

$129 + $9.50 shipping ebay 'buy it now' price
$99 +$9.50 shipping ebay starting bid price
$75 + $6 shipping forum member price

paypal only (for now)

delivery by crazy dude to me in about 5 days but I want to test and offer GUARANTEE before I sell anything
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby drewjet » Fri May 02, 2008 5:43 pm

Nice prices.

And to add to Ecrazyman. I bought 5 power supplies from him. I sent an email asking if I could get a break on shipping since I was buying 5 at a time. He gave me a GREAT PRICE! Quick delivery with a UPS tracking number, much better than other Ebayers from China. A big Thumbs Up to ECrazyman!

Damn, I ordered a Crystalite from ebikes 2 weeks ago, it was back ordered, but is in route and I expect to have it by next week. If only I would of known. I may be posting in the sale section soon.

Thanks Knuckles

P.S. Put me down for one member price controller. I wanna be first in line.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 5:45 pm

lazarus2405 wrote:Well, first off, welcome! Everyone has something to contribute, even if it's just "that looks nice!" and "this is my ride...". Glad to have you.

Second off, that is absolutely wonderful! We only very recently have decent stock controllers from Crystalyte (4110 FETs, etc) through ebikes.ca, but supplies are very limited and they're pretty expensive. So, the need really, really is there.

So now he bumped up the fets to 100V (I have fet spec sheet)


Mind sharing it? What FET model? What about the on resistance? How much continuous current?

The original 72V controller he made uses 75NF75 mosfets (see datasheet.pdf attached). He then proposed this fet (150V - cool - Fairchild__FDP2532.pdf) but got freaky on cost and settled on this fet (456-25859-0-STW80NF10.pdf). This is the fet he is using on the 10 new units he is making for me. I checked all the caps in the existing 72V controller (dissectedthe sucker) and they are all rated at 100V (thank God) and will send pics and specs on these also.

I also suggested he install a potentiometer so as to make a variable cut-off between (29 and 59V). He is actually designing this now.


Wonderful! However, can you ask him to make the cutoff range wider? Since different people use such a wide range of packs and voltages, the wider the better.

Can you also see if he can add a pot to adjust the current limit?

What I will suggest is that crazy dude join this forum. He is gonna freak once I send him the link to this. YOU ARE ALL his design team!!!

Also working on 72V 40 and 50 amp versions using the 4110 fets.


Nice. In these, how many FETs are planned? And what about the capacitors? They need to be 100v rated, and as big as possible on the high-amp units.

Always a minium of 12 fets. No more crystalyte 6 fet blunders!

There is a market for even higher power hot-rodded controllers. If you could work with him for something that could run in the 50a-80a range, with a pot for an adjustable current limit, and willing to operate at a 100v battery voltage, for the folks making high-powered setups.

Excellent Idea!

There might also be a market for 150v-equipped controllers, maybe 5-10 units. There are a folks running in the 90v-150v range, some on the 4110 FETs and some on 150v FETs. The 4110s are okay under ~115v, but its a knife-edge there. It might be too far out of the mainstream, though. (I'd sure buy one.)

WOW! 150V at 80 amps will fry you if you are not carefull. VERY SCAREY! We are talking serious EV design for anything above 72V nominal!

And finally, can the connectors and wire colors be standardized with Crystalyte motors/controllers and ebikes.ca's connectors? That is Anderson powerpoles on the battery and motor phase wires, mini-XLR for the Hall sensor connectors, and, perhaps, a 6-pin connector for the CycleAnalyst? (specific info can be found on ebikes.ca's site. They'll work with you.)

So, thanks again. Let me know what's realistic and what isn't.


ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IS NOW POSSIBLE. Just ask nicely and be human. That's all I did.
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75V mosfets
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby ngocthach1130 » Fri May 02, 2008 7:46 pm

great. Put me down for one too. I need one for my cheapy builds
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 8:13 pm

You got it.

But please realize the only thing cheap about good controllers is price (moore's law). The quality must be the best and will be the best.

Feed back is essential. Good science and sound engineering practice is my motto. I find that here, in this forum.

So hell yes, you got it. Please not to rush because I want to insure quality from the crazy dude. Money well spent on my part and I will never spend $200+ for a controller again!

I'll ship immediately to all members and also list on ebay but all members have first dibs. Heck ... endless-sphere created this product. It is your invention after all.

Kick the hell out of it! Test it and test it hard! That's what I'm gonna do! I'll post when the 10 units arrive at my door.

-Cheers!!!

-B
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 8:26 pm

go right ahead.
Re: feedback for manufacturers
Sent at: Fri May 02, 2008 5:14 pm
by Knuckles

Basically yes to items 1-11. Why the hell not?

May I post your 'feedback from manufactures' on the 'Chinese Connection' thread or better yet allow me to address these 11 items in detail in the thread?

Is this OK for you?

-Knuckles
Quote Lessss feedback for manufacturers
Sent at: Fri May 02, 2008 4:09 pm
by Lessss

Wow, you have feedback ability to the manufacturers and they listen?

Here are more quality feedback suggestions if you are capable of passing them along. solve these and you will have a product line Americans will buy.

1) Use better guage wirring. I've seen many bikes where the wiring itself is melting it's plastic covering.
2) Use better Pedals. I've seen the plastic pedals fall apart and crumble simply from a minor scrape with the ground
3) Pedals too low. I've seen many many bikes that can't pedal through a turn because the pedals are so low they strike the ground.
4) Scooter style bikes. Pedals are too far apart. The bikes need to narrow at the point where the pedals are
5) Use better guage wires going into hub motors. This may mean having to use a wider pipe as the axel. A wider axel however may mean the ability to force air cool hub motors.
6) fuse holder rated for higher temps. I've seen clear plastic fuse holders completely melt.
7) gear the crank shaft on the scooter like bikes. For the Scooter like bike move the pedals in front of the battery pack and gear the crank shaft. Something to improve the ability to pedal at low and higher speeds.
Better connectors. Iv'e seen them melt.
9) Regen braking that wastes the excess power in some manner instead of disengaging the brakes.
10) Better Chargers that do not fail due to minor bumps or shocks.
11) Better Controllers - looks like you already
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby lazarus2405 » Fri May 02, 2008 8:31 pm

Use better guage wirring. I've seen many bikes where the wiring itself is melting it's plastic covering.


Amen to this. On a 40-50a controller, battery and motor phase wires need to 10AWG.
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 9:11 pm

Funny thing about A, B, C phase wires. I found that I can replace a harness with 3 - 14 gauge wires (A,B,C phase wires) and also use copper from cat-5 network cable (5 conductors for hall sensors) to replace a twisted up harness. Fits thru the 12mm axel just fine. (I add a little lube - same for my girlfiend - ha,ha)

Don't think 12 or 10 gauge is needed for 3 phase wires even at 80 amps. Just my gut feeling. Hell. Is it a bike or an electric motorcycle?

I do use 12 gauge for + and - bat leads to controller. Always lots 'O' copper is primo-good between controller and bats!

YIKES! A diamond frame bicycle scare shti out of me at 30 MPH! Nirve chopper is OH SO SMOOTH at 30+.

I did fry many motor hall sensors from over heating. No longer a problem with crazy dude controllers and shorten the harness length.

Just FYI.

-B
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 9:22 pm

I'm sorry, maybe it's a 14mm axel (I am bigger than I think! - Lucky me!) But I do know the straight slot (for torque arm) is a standard 10mm.

Anyway ... 14 gauge is more than adequate for A,B,C phase wires (IMO).

-B
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 02, 2008 9:49 pm

I guess I meant "axle" OK I can't SPELL! (i.e Knuckle-Head=Knuckles)
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Re: Chinese Connection

Postby Roonster » Fri May 02, 2008 10:02 pm

I'm interested in trying one on a BMC Puma geared hub motor. Are these controllers digital or analog? The new Crystalyte digital units seem to have problems with the BMC geared motors. :roll:
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