Hall sensor question for hs3540

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Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:52 pm

So i got my hs3540 motor and infineon 40 amp from ebikes working and rode it for 2 days. I was fixing the rear brake and i guess i didnt fully tighten the axle nuts and the wires got twisted. Time to fix something.

So i the controller turns the CA on but when i hit the throttle no power is sent to the motor and no noise or anything. So i test the hall sensors with the controller on. the red wire was 5.5 volts, black ground, and all the other hall sensor wires were higher voltage (6.4 volts) regardless of spinning the wheel.

Could someone help me narrow this down to either the controller or halls sensor.

BTW, i was in the process of buying torque arms, and its a steel dropouts so i thought i would be safe for 1 week, oh well good time to learn more about the motor

Thanks guys

edit: added controller type
Last edited by appleseed123 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby hjns » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:03 am

Did you check the mosfets in your controller. Stuck motor will induce sudden high current demand, usually resulting in popped mosfets.

Open the controller, and measure resistance through the legs of your mosfets. If one fet is different from its neighbours on the same phase, you probably have to replace it. Search the forum for more detailed info.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby dfar » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:52 am

hall sensor testing
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25652#p370915

another thread

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4626

http://www.electricbicyclesmagazine.com ... page3.html

check the continuity between motor phase wires. check to see if anything is grounded to the motor axle i.e continuity of phase/hall to motor axle.

report back with further information
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby Philistine » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:04 am

Do yourself a favour and buy one of these:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20413&hilit=ebike+tester

It is invaluable in easily diagnosing controller and hub issues.

If you are accurately checking your hall wires, then if they are not switching it suggests it is your halls that are the problem (wires or sensors). If when connected, the wheel is difficult to turn, you might have a blown fet in the controller, but if the wheel spins freely it sounds like you just need to check your hall wires and your hall sensors.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:52 pm

Ok i retested the halls, their voltage are all the same (7.7 volts now) ( regardless of turning the motor) and above the black/red voltage of only 6.6 volts.

I connected everything, and applied throttle. There is a quiet clicking noise as soon as i twist the throttle but doesnt turn. THe motor is easy to spin manually even if i try to apply throttle.

What is the middle lead in the mosfet on the infineon 40 amp controller?.

I thought the halls must be lower voltage than the positive wire, so if they are all above does that indicate a short in all of them?

Im trying to search for answers but jumping from thread to thread is abit confusing

EDIT: i measured the resistance between the ground wire and the phase wires, and power wire and the phase wires. All resistances are high so i believe that would mean no mosfets are shorted right? that means to replace the hall sensors right?
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby dfar » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:58 am

in my experience with a hall sensor issue the wheel will try to turn but will lock up (exactly like a wrong wiring combo), however that is only with one blown hall sensor, the other two are usually ok. In your case it sounds like possibly all three are blown, I have never experienced this situation but I suppose it's possible the wheel wouldn't spin at all and just make some clicking noise, not sure.

Hall sensors are cheap and relatively easy to install so I would start there first, upgrading the stock hall sensors is worth while anyway. Taking off the cover and taking a look at the motor/wiring will also give good clues as to what the problem is. Make sure to inspect the wiring carefully especially near the axle where most likely your hall wires have grounded on something.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby dfar » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:07 am

theses are the standard hall sensors most install after the factory ones burn up
http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en ... -ND/701354

theses ones are also good if you want a sensor capable of higher temps
http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en ... ND/2561122

I believe any hall sensor will work as long as it's a bipolar latching type with output signal as digital open collector. In my experience differences in sensing range does not effect the functionality of the hall sensor for e-bike purposes.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:27 pm

Ill order the halls sensor from ebikes and the torque arms. I was told they work on the hs3540
Ill let everyone know when i get them hooked up

is super glue or gorilla glue good for gluing the halls to the motor?
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby dnmun » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:34 pm

.
Last edited by dnmun on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:37 pm

Ebikes just said that the voltage (red wire) just turns on the hall sensor, and the when the hall sensor is on, voltage from the controller through the output (coloured input) wire connects to the ground wire on the hall sensor. The controller voltage to the coloured wire can actually be anything (higher or lower). IMHO
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby dnmun » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:42 pm

.
Last edited by dnmun on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:44 pm

in my posts in the thread it says infineon 40 amp from ebikes.ca
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby GCinDC » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:48 pm

if you spun the axle, and are having this problem, i'd be willing to bet you've shorted (or at least cut) some wires, most likely halls. they're easy enough to cut w/o spinning the axle.

unplug the halls connector. switch your multimeter to check for resistance, ideally with a beep if you mm does that. touch them together to test you've got 0 ohms. then touch each of the contacts with one probe and the motor with the other. if it ever goes to zero and/or beeps, you've gotta replace the hall wire.

several times i've had problems identifying the short and just replaced them and it worked. a pia job to be sure, but the obvious penalty for running w/o torque arms!

get lyen's ebike tester anyway. your halls are probably fine, but it's by far the easiest way to check. w/o the tester, you could connect the halls connector, power it up, don't touch the throtlle, but manually spin the wheel while you jam on mm probe into the controller side of the black (or red?) connector and the other probe in first the blue, then yel, then green. the voltage should vary as you spin the wheel. helps if you have three hands.

to replace halls, unscrew the side covers, loosen them slightly (w/ chisel or somesuch but take it easy), remove the freewheel - may not be nec tho - lay the wheel freewheel side down on the ground, with a block under the axle, and stand on the wheel (wire side up). the wheel will pop down, and the stator will stay up, attached loosely to disk side cover. the halls should be exposed on the side, but you'll not be able to test them again until you reassemble, except by waving a magnet in front. at this point, you can peel back insulation on the legs and check for continuity...

you'll probably end up having to remove the wire side side cover, which is a drag, and best done w/ 6" gear puller. pretty handy if you own one of these motors. ;-) if you replace the hall wires, you'll have to do it.

i can explain more if you need. i may have some vids w/ various part of it somewhere.
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby jansevr » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:26 pm

after disassembling the motor with the gear puller, what is the best way to reassemble it so as to not damage the magnets? is there any way to do this with the gear puller?

thanks in advance
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby appleseed123 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:08 pm

i just slowly place the motor back into the rim. of course at a straight 90 degree angle. They just slap back together no harm done
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Re: Hall sensor question for hs3540

Postby GCinDC » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:11 pm

i lean the halls inside the ring slightly, so they won't get damaged and then let it fly back in.

or scroll to 4:56 of this helpful one
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.
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