wire combo for Lyen 12 fet mark2 and 2810

[999zip999]

Can't find the wire combo for 9c 2810 and a lyen 12fet mark2 any help ? Thanks

[slimbeau]

try
blue- green
green-blue
hope it works

[NeilP]

I have PM'd you a link to a first draft of a google doc I am writing to help in this situation..see if you can understand what I am going on about. I do not want to make it public yet

[NeilP]

OK, I have edited it again, and here is the link...open for comments please.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w8m ... 44y-s/edit



There is also a very similar article on the ES Wiki, except the author uses ABC for the phases where I used 123

http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.p ... less_Motor

also download the spread sheet with all possible combinations filled out so you can markt them down as you go and keep a note of the results
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/do ... p?id=69351

[dogman]

Should be swap blue and green. On the phases AND the halls. I forgot to swap the halls once, and beat my head on the wall for 24 hrs trying to figure out my problem. Then I looked at the halls plug the next morning and went, Ohhhhhh, you dumbshit. So obvious the next day.

[NeilP]

Not necessarily, lyen controller to Xlyte has halls green and blue swap, and phase yellow and blue swap.
The colours mean nothing, there is no standard. I have two original xlyte controllers, they wire differently to same motor, and when you open them the wires are swapped on the board.

That is why both myself, John in CR and AlanB did not use colours, but instead used symbols that everyone knows what order is ' normal' for them. ABC or 123. You can then decide which colour wire you call A, which B, which C

[dogman]

Right. I get it. Colors would be meaniniless when starting from scratch. I just meant that, that color combo worked on all my 9c and 9c clone motors with Lyens controllers so far. So I'd try it first, along with troubleshoot step one, looking for bad contacts if it failed to work.

I don't have mark 2 controllers though, just older Lyens models. I would hope that Lyens kept his old colors to minimize confusion on mark 2.

I just last weekend got my crystalyte 5304 going with an Aotema type controller. Imagine my astonishment when matching all the colors worked on the first try.

[NeilP]

Ah sorry, me not reading the whole thread carefully enough ...I missed the 9C part...bloody iphones...screens to small once you pass 40 years old and the eyesight starts going

[dogman]

Hell, I misread plenty, and have my laptop on large font.

[NeilP]

i even bought some generic reading glasses from the local super store the other day

[999zip999]

Hey thanks guys I have no time. Digging roots in Laguna Beach at a 70 yr. old house to lay some old macthing pavers at 53yr. and sharping the old maul fills good . Would love to hit 33mph on my bike soon.
Tried all your comb's and lyen's too it rolls backward , but so maybe a bad connection. Thanks All

[NeilP]

If it goes backwards and you think it is a loose wire, you obviously not read either my Google document I linked to, or the wiki entry from AlanB.

I updated my google doc a few times since, so go back and read it and see what to do when the motor runs backwards

It is all there in black and white, all you have to do is read and understand, it is very basic, there is only so much we can do to help you, you have to have the understanding your self otherwise you will never get it to work

[999zip999]

Got to find some time Thanks.

[NeilP]

Good luck, it is not difficult once you get your head around it..once you do you will wonder what the difficulty was

[999zip999]

O.K. got forward motion with Controller to motor halls Y-Y, B-B, G-G. Phase B-G, G-Y, Y-B. Hook up 48v konion ok with a whine ? Then hookup 84v A123 and it flies with the whine louder, don't know the amps. Still don't if 100% right ? The lyen mark2 is A=Yellow, B=Green, C=Blue. So must try and connect the tester for hub, just not enough safe wireing for that.

[NeilP]

If it is smooth rotation it is probably Ok, but doing the wire swapping without some sort of ammeter or at least a low value fuse is a good way to start blowing controllers

Good that it now works though

[999zip999]

Is I was scared of hooking up a wrong connection and blowing this rebuild controller. So Neilp what is the best way to protect a controller when triing out different combo's. I told Lyen I was going to run it at 88v but would like it to run at 36v also. Lyen put in a jump wire for 36v and 72-88v open the jumper for 72v-88v ? I didn't ask for a jumper and don't know what's it's fuction is as open for the 72v-88v. It still runs with a 46v battery ? So not a lvc.
Ran down to listen to the motor and it growls at low speed as if the bearing at square.Without power It does spin without any noise. This combo can't be right. A@#!%^??*

[itchynackers]

As dogman said, the combo should be YY, BG, GB for both phases and halls. Sounds like you don't know the "colors" of the motor or controller. When you are testing a combination, don't hop on the bike and ride it. Just prop up the wheel and bench test it. It will be fairly obvious when you get a good combo. The motor will run fairly quietly in the forward direction. Really, once youve found a good combo, you need to do a no-load current test to verify it is the correct combo. At full throttle with the wheel propped up, it shouldn't draw more than about 1 amp. I really don't know how else to test this except the a CA. Maybe someone else can help with that.

[NeilP]

. So Neilp what is the best way to protect a controller when triing out different combo's. ?*

Oh come on man read what I and others post. I have told you in my previous post

If it is smooth rotation it is probably Ok, but doing the wire swapping without some sort of ammeter or at least a low value fuse is a good way to start blowing controllers

Also said the same in the document I linked to ...an ammeter or cyce analyst to manually monitor the current, or a fuse that will blow if current gets too high

[999zip999]

icthynakers, Dogman's was the first combo I triied yy gb bg. Then gg yb by. I tried lyen's combo's witch was dogman's first then this halls yy gb bg, phase yb gg by and no go till I found the one I posted. I can see the color of the wire and can tell the difference of colors. Do I open up Lyen's work to check on him ?
My wheel is in a motor stand made out of a bedframe. So no load.

[John in CR]

Is I was scared of hooking up a wrong connection and blowing this rebuild controller. So Neilp what is the best way to protect a controller when triing out different combo's.

I make my phase connections using thin wires with alligator clips along with the positive or negative power wire for the controller....easy to swap and can't support enough current to hurt anything. Just make sure the ends at the controller and motor wires can't short. Once the small pulses reveal what seems to be correct combination, then I ease on the throttle to WOT to verify. I do that slowly so I don't push high current through those small wires. If I get a valid reverse, then I swap 2, any 2, only 2 hall wires, and go back to swapping the phases for the correct combo. Once running smooth and proper direction, I put the multimeter in line with the battery lead on the alligator clip to verify low current as further proof of right combo, and to get the no load current so I can calibrate the CA at the same time.

It's really a quite simple process. People over complicate it with talk about 36 combos, and then people start swapping both. Once it sinks in that every phase combination has 1 valid hall combo, and every hall combo has 1 valid phase combo, then it becomes obvious that you don't change both. What you don't know is whether that valid one is forward or reverse (there are 3 of each). Be careful of false positives, which spin the wheel but sound a bit rough on startup. Every false positive I have seen has been the opposite direction for the set you are keeping static (halls using my method), so if a combo spins it backward but sounded a bit rough, that's a good sign.

Also be careful of bad connections, which make a good combo impossible to find. The end hall spades can slide to the side instead of into the connector too. I like to slide the hall connector in and out a few times when making the connection to ensure a good contact.

Once you get that right combo, undo the alligator clips one at a time, and make the solid connection before going to the next, so you don't lose track. Also, do yourself a favor and pick up some yellow, blue, green, red, and black electrical tape. Use it to color code your phase wire ends on the controller side to match the motor phase wires to avoid going through the process again at a future date with the same motor and controller.

Also note that the most common difference from matching colors is a swap of the yellow and blue phase wires, so try that first if color on color doesn't work. Be systematic. If the yellow and blue swap didn't work either, then you've already tried both combos of green on green, so next try the 2 combos of green on yellow, and then the 2 of green on blue. That's 6, so you have it by now, or at least a good reverse. See above for how to handle reverse.

Whatever you do don't get frustrated and give it WOT. My only burned motor, a little Bafang, resulted from doing that....burned the controller too. My next wiring attempt was after I went through the logic exercise and realized just how easy it is. My wires could all be black and I'd find the right wiring just as quickly. On a dare I could eaily do it blindfolded, though I'd have to go slower, preferably with a helper to watch for shorts.

John

[NeilP]

Why use small wires on the phase side John, Why not just on the battery side? If you have a high current on the phase it will need to come from the battery initially, so just a 1 or 2 amp fuse battery side will be rnough surely?
I know you get current multiplication on the phase wires compared to battery, but that is probably an absolute maximum of 3 times battery current,

I agree that doing the full 36 swaps is unnecessary, BUT, if you do do them (filling in that spread sheet as you go),it does show clearly what we are saying about three forward and three reverse. You can see the pattern rather than just believe.
When I first started two years ago and had these same issues, no one explained to me about the fact that there are 3 fwd and 3 reverse combinations. I was shown the spreadsheet and told to get on with it. From doing the sheet and a bit of thinking this fact soon became obvious.. That is why I wrote that document, to direct people to. I have asked for comments and feedback on it, but no one has commented, so I can only assume it all make sense

[999zip999]

O.K. struck GOLD. Thanks ALL. So my combo is controller to hub.
Halls, Y-B, B-G, G-Y..
Phase , Y-G, B-Y, G-B.
I had no time after I got started. So work, work , work. Frist day off wake up with my back out after 3 weeks of pick and sholve and frist day off ?
Or 1-2,2-3,3-1 Halls
and 1-3,2-1,3-2 phase. Thanks Neilp
Back to the wrench and take off the ah sucking bmc600hs. And put the Dogman 2810 on at 84v. A123 20ah and my D.D. Thanks again.

Edit flase alarm: Hit the ground and it chugs. Frock

[NeilP]

What current reading are you getting when it is off the ground.
If it is above 1 or 2 amps then it is wrong.

If you really have not got it now, I think the only way is to download the spreadsheet linked to earlier, print it out, and slowly and methodically go through the complete sheet, writing down in the little box what happens on each combination. Even when you find a working one, keep going and try all 36. You should find 6 working combos. 3 forward, 3 reverse, plus others that may spin but badly, and others that do nothing.
But remember the fuse and links like John suggested between phase wires.


I still do not think you 'get the concept' of why myself or AlanB used 123 orABC
It was never meant to be used when actually swapping or trying to convey to others what combo you use, we merely use it in order to show the concept of the order of the wires. To try and explain again

Think of any three colours,
Now, what is the correct order for them?
There is no correct order is there, ? Any order is no more correct than any other. Tell another person to put three colours in order and chances are they will choose a different order
Now think of three numbers or three letters of the alphabet . And put them in order.
Chances are you put them in standard numeric or alphabet order,
Ask someone else and they will put them in the same order, something that cant be done with a selection of colours.
This is why Alan or myself used 123 or ABC. It is easier to see that two items have been swapped if we explain using an order that everyone ( in the Western World) is familiar with and has been taught since pre school

[John in CR]

Why use small wires on the phase side John, Why not just on the battery side?

For ease of swapping the wires, and for the extra wire length. It takes just a few second to unclip 2 alligators (actually 4 because I usually double up the wires to reduce the chance of a bad connection with an alligator clip) and swap them. I generally need the extra length, because the controller isn't on the bike yet and I'm testing it to make sure the controller works and then mark the wires with colored tape. Also, I hard wire my phase wires so at the point of first spin up I'm dealing with whatever connectors came with the controller or motor, or no connector at all.