Cross-Canada by Ebike

[justin_le]

Justin, how fast can you charge your batteries? What type of charger are you using?

Hi Bill. Good question. My original goal was to be able to recharge the ebike from dead flat in about 2 hours. A couple years ago I scored a large stash of these Vicor DC-DC converter circuits (model VI-264-20/F1) off of ebay:

300V -> 36V converter module

Vicor DC-DC.jpg (26.51 KiB) Viewed 3683 times

The input can vary from 200 to 400volts DC and the output is factory set to 36V at 6 amps, all in a tiny package. I mean really tiny when you compare it to most ebike chargers which only have like a 2A output. By putting a 1MOhm resistor between the Trim and the +S leads on the output side the output voltage was tweaked up to 41.5V. So the original plan was to connect a voltage doubling rectifier out of the wall, rig it up to the input of this DC-DC module, and then feed the output adjusted to 41.5V straight into the batteries, using the internal current limit of the device to make it behave like a 6A 41.5V CC/CV charger.

Original DC-DC Charger Circuit.GIF (4.09 KiB) Viewed 3663 times

Unfortunately that arrangement would overheat and go into thermal shutdown within just a minute or two of charging. Apparently even though the output is current limitted to 6A, it is also not supposed to exceed 170 watts, which at 41.5V is more like 4 amps. So, I had to rethink things a bit and wire up a feedback circuit using an op-amp and a current sensing shunt resistor in order so that the Trim pin on the DC-DC converter would be governed to run a constant current output rather than a constant voltage. I don't have time to sketch the schematic right now, but in short it ended up with a potentiometer with which one can dial in the desired current, from 1A up to 5A, as well as orange and green LED's to indicate which charging state it is in.

Homemade Charger Insides.jpg (80.39 KiB) Viewed 3663 times

At 4A it still gets hot and shuts down after about an hour, so either I need to pour water on the heatsink on a regular basis or tweak it down to 3A to make good use.

Anyways, So I have two of these homemade units, one commercial 36V 4A lithium charger, as well as a 36V 4A NiMH charger. So in the case with all four chargers plugged in I can have 14 amps or so of charging current. But having 4 chargers to wire up and connect is a bit of a pain, so I usually just connect 2 or 3 of them. What's the rush eh?

Justin

[justin_le]

Hi Guys, here is a link to a map that shows the trip progress to date. I haven't done any 200+ km days yet, but that'll start happening soon enough.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=4570+Main+St+vancouver+bc&daddr=Marine+Dr+%4049.203230,+-122.964670+to:Columbia+St+%4049.200250,+-122.914090+to:Columbia+St+%4049.203029,+-122.908132+to:St+Mary+St+%4049.208250,+-122.904650+to:Agnes+St+%4049.209210,+-122.901730+to:1st+St+%4049.209672,+-122.902370+to:Pattullo+Bridge+%4049.207780,+-122.894610+to:King+George+Hwy+%4049.184290,+-122.845570+to:King+George+Hwy+%4049.061260,+-122.813040+to:152+St+%4049.038360,+-122.801150+to:15547+18+Ave,+Surrey,+Greater+Vancouver,+British+Columbia,+Canada+to:16+Ave+%4049.031210,+-122.492590+to:Fraser+Hwy+%4049.057560,+-122.403740+to:Hope+BC+to:7500+Highway+3,+Manning+Park,+BC+V0X+1R0,+Canada+(Manning+Park+Resort)+to:Princeton,+BC,+Canada+to:Penticton,+BC,+Canada+to:Vernon,+BC,+Canada&hl=en&geocode=5553290908090033970,49.203230,-122.964670%3B8973161381717632412,49.200250,-122.914090%3B186245244822985837,49.203029,-122.908132%3B13469460028352247205,49.208250,-122.904650%3B7606419782233851260,49.209210,-122.901730%3B1846262224137290578,49.209672,-122.902370%3B1121102226801290441,49.207780,-122.894610%3B16719400504480869075,49.184290,-122.845570%3B11295929828244341107,49.061260,-122.813040%3B12298672677532115428,49.038360,-122.801150%3B4105363344561278198,49.031210,-122.492590%3B13062809792576733182,49.057560,-122.403740%3B77913603779624531,49.136020,-120.618570&mra=ls&via=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13&sll=49.265395,-121.34802&sspn=3.068394,5.625&ie=UTF8&ll=49.720928,-121.201172&spn=1.583941,4.449463&z=8

Map to Vernon.gif (75.56 KiB) Viewed 3658 times

The electrical energy consumption stats are as follows (Net Ah, % Regen, Net Watt-hours, Distance, Time):

Vancouver -> White Rock 17.15 Ah 7.97% 623.5 Wh 46.96 km 1:37:20
White Rock -> Hope 31.70 Ah 5.07% 1223.2 Wh 128.14 km 3:38:00
Hope -> Manning 27.42 Ah 2.94% 1055.2 Wh 67.46 km 2:14:24
Manning -> Princeton 15.79 Ah 17.72% 610.5 Wh 71.33 km 2:09:54
Princeton -> Penticton 34.90 Ah 5.04% 1347.1 Wh 120 km 3:36:00
Penticton -> Vernon 44.01 Ah 4.70% 1717.0 Wh 119.7 km 3:32:00

So current sitting at just over 6.5 KWh of electricity used to go some 554 km.

I'm in Vernon right now and heading to Revelstoke tomorrow. Anyone along the way please feel free to drop me a line.
-Justin

[paultrafalgar]

For those of you who like spreadsheets here's one I knocked up quickly with Justin's data. Please check it for errors. The last column is an attempt to get a view of how the power consumption varies with speed; I guess the differences could be due to hills climbed. Some industrious soul might want to get that from Google maps/Earth

JustinTransCanada.xls

Microsoft Format

(108 KiB) Downloaded 159 times

[seanreit]

For the Americans following along, we pay .105 a KWH down here in Texas. As I'm understanding it, Justin has gone 550 KM on 60 cents American. If I have messed up a decimal place, please let me know.

[paultrafalgar]

For the Americans following along, we pay .105 a KWH down here in Texas. As I'm understanding it, Justin has gone 550 KM on 60 cents American. If I have messed up a decimal place, please let me know.

Can't see anything wrong with your calculation, Sean. GREAT! isn't it. But don't tell those oilmen down there or they might not like it
P.S. Tell everyone else though!

[Lock]

...differences could be due to hills climbed.

Ahem... yes, there are hills in BC <grin>... Vernon about 1,140 ft above sea level!
Not sure what route Justin is taking but if TransCanada Hwy up ahead are Rogers Pass 4,340ft and Kicking Horse Pass 5,340ft.
tks
Lock

[Zoot Katz]

For the Americans following along, we pay .105 a KWH down here in Texas. As I'm understanding it, Justin has gone 550 KM on 60 cents American. If I have messed up a decimal place, please let me know.

Electricity in BC costs $0.0655/kWh. So that's $0.36025 CND worth of hydro generated juice. Or just less than eleven cents per hundred miles.
If those rates held across the whole country (~4000 miles) he'd be spending less than half his ten-dollar energy budget.
Or about 5% of what it would cost to do it in a diesel Smart car without 95% of the fun.

Bikes Rule!
GO JUSTIN!

[Lock]

If those rates held across the whole country...Bikes Rule! GO JUSTIN!

(And he is not EVen fully-faired!)

Ahem... "Hydro" rates are smoke and mirrors... HELLO?

Ontario just announced another electricity rate reduction... Yer quoting official rates that really just pander to the ignorant electorate (voters)...

Ontario "Hydro" is cheap if you ignore those swimming pools full of heavy water and nuke waste... In BC, like Ontario, I expect crumbling infrastructure that was paid for decades ago but not kept up (like Ontario highways and overpasses.)

I always say to my daughters (the two that I know of) Thanks Kids! ...for inheriting our National Debt...

Yer shoving the costs of (20th-Century) excesses on to future generations... it's a flawed (20th Century) economic model...

Pls. don't quote numbers w/out context
[/Accounting Hat Off]
tks
Lock

[John in CR]

...Ahem... "Hydro" rates are smoke and mirrors... HELLO?

Ontario just announced another electricity rate reduction... Yer quoting official rates that really just pander to the ignorant electorate (voters)...

Ontario "Hydro" is cheap if you ignore those swimming pools full of heavy water and nuke waste... In BC, like Ontario, I expect crumbling infrastructure that was paid for decades ago but not kept up (like Ontario highways and overpasses.)

I always say to my daughters (the two that I know of) Thanks Kids! ...for inheriting our National Debt...

Yer shoving the costs of (20th-Century) excesses on to future generations... it's a flawed (20th Century) economic model...

Pls. don't quote numbers w/out context
[/Accounting Hat Off]
tks
Lock

Lock,

I'm sure the food Justin has to eat to supply the energy he uses while pedaling costs far more than even your "fully loaded" electric rate, whatever that is since you didn't quantify it. BTW if you really put on an "accounting hat" you'd realize that your accounting leaves out the National Assets, not to mention the economic stimulus that the 20th century spending created. Did your great grandparents and grandparents say thank you to your parents and you for having to spend all that money to create the infrastructure to begin with? The only true cost that you touched on is if there is a cost in human suffering created by poisons to the environment, and in that regard I am in 100% agreement, otherwise cost is just a paper number and debt too is meaningless without considering the assets. Governmental accounting is such a crock. It's only record keeping and a proper accounting of nothing.

I'm sorry, but I believe your viewpoint is jaded and fundamentally flawed. The 20th century was the greatest in history, and the 21st will be even better as the forced conversion is made from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources.

Justin, you're getting great mileage especially considering that load. How much are you pedaling? Here's an idea, keep track of your daily food consumption too during your journey. Then do some flat segments on electric power alone, and others with maximum pedal assist. Then you'll be able to clearly demonstrate how EV power is better than human power, not just better than smoker power. You'll be helping to feed the hungry too.

John

[Zoot Katz]

If those rates held across the whole country...Bikes Rule! GO JUSTIN!

(And he is not EVen fully-faired!)

Ahem... "Hydro" rates are smoke and mirrors... HELLO?

Ontario just announced another electricity rate reduction... Yer quoting official rates that really just pander to the ignorant electorate (voters)...

Ontario "Hydro" is cheap if you ignore those swimming pools full of heavy water and nuke waste... In BC, like Ontario, I expect crumbling infrastructure that was paid for decades ago but not kept up (like Ontario highways and overpasses.)

I always say to my daughters (the two that I know of) Thanks Kids! ...for inheriting our National Debt...

Yer shoving the costs of (20th-Century) excesses on to future generations... it's a flawed (20th Century) economic model...

Pls. don't quote numbers w/out context
[/Accounting Hat Off]
tks
Lock

True. I'd not taken into account what might be considered "externalised costs". Like ambulances, law enforcement, ashtma, water pollution, highway crews, and the cost of free parking included in the price of my food with the currently prevailing transportaion modes.
Infrastructure replacement costs will be huge unless we change our way of getting around.
A bridge for bicycles, one mile long, two lanes wide, could move as many people per hour as one twelve lane wide for cars, four lanes for buses and three lanes for automated trains*.
We sold our souls when we tore up the rails.

*According to Ivan Illich.

[Doctorbass]

If you need xtra battery when crossing Quebec to fight the wind alog the fleuve St-Laurent i can arrange you something begining by kWh .. that would be a pleasure to me to bring you some Sony konion pack for the end of your trip!

Hey Doc, for sure, I'll trade in my 8AH NiCad pack for some 16Ah or so of Lithium if you got it! Also, if you or others along the way have ebike setups with reasonable capacities and want to join along and ride together for a part of the trip that could pretty fun. I'm averaging between 35-40 kph, so I don't think anyone on this forum will have trouble keeping up.


-Justin

That's a great idea!

I was planning to make a short 170km trip to La Pocatière at the end of summer. It's at 150km in east of Quebec on the highway 20.
So i would be happy to join you for that part of your trip!! I was also planning to ride at 35-40kph using 50.2V 46Ah of Konion pack! Enough juice for that ride and keep resonable accelerations too!

Ideally i will need to know when you will arrive at Quebec as soon as you approach to be able to prepare me for the trip!

Go Justin go! We are all with you along that trip!

Oh by the way.. A journalist of a popular newspaper come to my home tomorrow to write an article about my ebike construction and battery recycling!.. I prepared some demonstrations!


Doc

[justin_le]

For those of you who like spreadsheets here's one I knocked up quickly with Justin's data. Please check it for errors. The last column is an attempt to get a view of how the power consumption varies with speed; I guess the differences could be due to hills climbed. Some industrious soul might want to get that from Google maps/Earth

I think that the attached data is more in line with what you would want to be looking for for doing that kind of correlation. This is for the stretch from Hope BC to the lodge in Manning Park, and it shouldn't be too hard to use google earth to get the slope / elevation data along the way.

CA Data Hope to Manning.gif

Graph of Speed and Current draw

(30.86 KiB) Downloaded 1291 times

Generally going up the passes which are around 4-5% grade or so I'm using the full 30A on the controller, maintaining just under 30 kph. While on the flats it is more like 37-42 kph with current draws in the 5 to 15 A range depending on the headwind. Unfortunately I lost the data for the trip down the other side since my laptop battery died, but I got nearly 3 Ah of regen back into the battery pack. Tomorrow morning I start the trek up and over the Rocky Mountains so I'll try to make sure all this data gets saved.

[Zoot Katz]

Generally going up the passes which are around 4-5% grade or so I'm using the full 30A on the controller, maintaining just under 30 kph. While on the flats it is more like 37-42 kph with current draws in the 5 to 15 A range depending on the headwind. Unfortunately I lost the data for the trip down the other side since my laptop battery died, but I got nearly 3 Ah of regen back into the battery pack. Tomorrow morning I start the trek up and over the Rocky Mountains so I'll try to make sure all this data gets saved.

I know of no place to plug in past Albert Canyon before you reach the summit of Roger's Pass. Maybe the ranger at the park gate will know.
The new bridges through the Kicking Horse hopefully make the road safer than the old route.
Drafting chip haulers through Eagle Pass was what I did for fun when I lived in Revelstoke. Mountain bikes hadn't been invented yet.

[justin_le]

I know of no place to plug in past Albert Canyon before you reach the summit of Roger's Pass. Maybe the ranger at the park gate will know.
The new bridges through the Kicking Horse hopefully make the road safer than the old route.
Drafting chip haulers through Eagle Pass was what I did for fun when I lived in Revelstoke. Mountain bikes hadn't been invented yet.

Ha ha. Well I'm in Revelstoke charging up right now and hope to make it to the summit of Roger's Pass in a single charge from here. Is there a touristy info booth kind of thing at the top which is likely to have power? I'm pretty sure I can make it there on my 36Ah but I definitely won't have enough to carry on all the way to Golden.

Justin

[paultrafalgar]

For those interested in getting elevation data out of Google Earth, read this:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php ... t/all/vc/1
which points to this:
http://www.nearby.org.uk/elevation-kml.php (for the UK)

BTW, I don't own and ebike let alone a CA, so if someone can explain a useful way to process the Day3 data that Justin provided, I'd be very interested to hear from you. (Not you Justin - you've too much to do at present!)

[Zoot Katz]

I know of no place to plug in past Albert Canyon before you reach the summit of Roger's Pass. Maybe the ranger at the park gate will know.
The new bridges through the Kicking Horse hopefully make the road safer than the old route.
Drafting chip haulers through Eagle Pass was what I did for fun when I lived in Revelstoke. Mountain bikes hadn't been invented yet.

Ha ha. Well I'm in Revelstoke charging up right now and hope to make it to the summit of Roger's Pass in a single charge from here. Is there a touristy info booth kind of thing at the top which is likely to have power? I'm pretty sure I can make it there on my 36Ah but I definitely won't have enough to carry on all the way to Golden.

Justin

There is?/was a hotel at the top that's closed in the winter except for emergencies.
I always felt westbound was a harder ride.

[paultrafalgar]

Another thing occurs to me: I have Fugawi with maps for the UK. It gives elevation data such that if you input a route, you can see the profile and the total ascent. The company that makes Fugawi is based in Toronto, so I guess they have maps (and elevation data) for Canada. Maybe someone could get them to provide elevation data for Justin's route as a publicity stunt?

[Pheno]

OK I have a question.
what am i going to look for on the net when justin finishes his trip? lol
Im learning alot from the other posts and I think this trip is awsome. Im glad you put in the progress map.
one more question not so e-bike related, dont you kind of get lonely out there on the road for that long?
I wish my e-bike could charge up as fast I have to wait about 10hrs. and only go 60km. it would take me a year to go nearly as far.
any way good luck
im sure I will post again.

[silentflight]

Hi Justin,

Thanks for posting and giving the rest of us a chance to enjoy your trip.

I enjoy riding long distances at night and you have good lights, have you been riding after dark? Sometimes seeing the mountains in BC in the moonlight can just blow my mind.

Could you comment on your Stokemonkey experience? How do you think your trans-Canada ride would be different if you were using it combined with your current xtracycle and battery? What do you think of it generally? I suppose the forced pedalling would get old on such a long trip, but maybe the efficiency would be a plus.

Is your one photo per minute time lapse movie still in progress? I can't wait to see it.

Scott

[cycle9]

Hey Justin,

I was thinking about your trip some more today. It is so cool! I realized that I have always wanted to do something exactly like that, but I've never had the chance (ok, never made the chance). For my 40th b-day I had a crazy plan for something similar, but it fell through. Anyway, your trip has given me inspiration to get serious about doing this. I think the one difference I'd like is to do this with "off the shelf" technology, to show that it can be done by those without the very special engineering talents you have. Probably an eZee kit with LiFEPo4 batteries stuffed in my Xtracycle, or similar. But I'd really like to do a recumbent setup with fairing to reduce wind drag. Hmm... have to think some more.

Well, I would have offered a place for you to charge up and spend the night, but I think that North Carolina is a bit out of your way. However, if your trip is just so great that you want to keep going, make sure to head our way!

Anyway, my wishes for continued great progress.

Morgan

[bspalteh]

Sounds like there are quite a few people interested in doing something like this. What I have wanted to do for quite a while is compile a list (google maps style) of charging locations with some details regarding location, amenities nearby (food, camping, etc) any special notes, etc. If we can agree on a format that we can all contribute to that would be really interesting. Food for thought. This is the vehicle I plan to do a long trip in sometime in the next few years - the Aurora from http://www.velomobiles.ca.

[bspalteh]

Ha ha. Well I'm in Revelstoke charging up right now and hope to make it to the summit of Roger's Pass in a single charge from here. Is there a touristy info booth kind of thing at the top which is likely to have power? I'm pretty sure I can make it there on my 36Ah but I definitely won't have enough to carry on all the way to Golden.

Justin

Yes, there is a visitors centre at the top of rogers pass, that should be open during the day in the summer, they have power there and could probably be talked into letting you charge up. Let us know how it goes, this is a key charging location!

Does anyone know how the charging might be across the rest of canada, are there any area where there might not be any charging for 150+km? I am guessing there would always be some farms where you might be able to ask or a gas station if nothing else?

[nutsandvolts]

I'm pretty sure I can make it there on my 36Ah but I definitely won't have enough to carry on all the way to Golden.

Nearby Golden is most excellent whitewater rafting on the kicking horse river, highly recommended.
Batteries not included, nor required

Does anyone know how the charging might be across the rest of canada, are there any area where there might not be any charging for 150+km? I am guessing there would always be some farms where you might be able to ask or a gas station if nothing else?

I don't know if you have driven across this country before, but ... as soon as you get to eastern alberta, you're going to see a whole lot of nothing until you reach ontario! It is the lakebed of prehistoric lake aggasiz. Thousands of miles of fields. I have had car breakdowns in this area. The folks are very friendly and helpful though, so maybe farms will be the answer. They will be all you have anyways for long stretches.

[Perfesser]

Justin ! Yer the man.
Crazy yes, but thats why I'm so fond of your company.
I just got back from a week off, and I find that you've gone on this great adventure. Wonderful.
If I had known, I would have sent you off with a couple loaves of Cheese & BBQ pork bread to recharge your personal battery.

In your eagerness to do this thing, it seems that you forgot to tell people about it. So....
I've contacted the local newspaper, and have a reporter who wants to tell your story to the world (well, Vancouver anyways).
I will send her this thread and your business webpage, but she would like to interview you by telephone.
Are you cool with this?
When/where would you be able to do the interview?

Don't draft the SUVs.
-Karl

[jazzhermit1]

Hey Justin... You're more than welcome to charge batteries at my place in Calgary - a few blocks off the Transcanada. I'll send you a private message with details.