Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

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Cowardlyduck
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 15, 2017 5:33 pm

icherouveim wrote:I have 4T motor but I think it doesn't matter. This setting corrects the wrong position of the hall sensors so -11 seems to be too way off.
I'm not professional but my experience says that correct values should be somewhere between -3 +3.
My last motors were working very well somewhere close to 0 and when I was testing for example at -7 the motor was overheating too fast.
This comment got me thinking...and I think there may be more to this than we all realise.

Auto-detect has always put my halls at -5 to -8, but I've never felt like that was actually correct. If you watch the Auto-detect process closely you can see that the way it's determining halls position is through a combination of halls angle and IND timing until it finds the value with the lowest amps draw.
You can do this manually easily enough and get the same result with much reduced halls angle. I tried it yesterday and managed to reduce my values from around -7 angle corr/ ~390 IND timing down to about -2.9 angle corr / 174 IND timing. The amps draw is the same, so is the top speed and it pulls just as hard under WOT. My PWR setting is unchanged at 0.88.
Time will tell if I still have the same overheating issues, but I'm hopeful. :D

Thanks icherouveim!

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 16, 2017 12:18 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
icherouveim wrote:I have 4T motor but I think it doesn't matter. This setting corrects the wrong position of the hall sensors so -11 seems to be too way off.
I'm not professional but my experience says that correct values should be somewhere between -3 +3.
My last motors were working very well somewhere close to 0 and when I was testing for example at -7 the motor was overheating too fast.
This comment got me thinking...and I think there may be more to this than we all realise.

Auto-detect has always put my halls at -5 to -8, but I've never felt like that was actually correct. If you watch the Auto-detect process closely you can see that the way it's determining halls position is through a combination of halls angle and IND timing until it finds the value with the lowest amps draw.
You can do this manually easily enough and get the same result with much reduced halls angle. I tried it yesterday and managed to reduce my values from around -7 angle corr/ ~390 IND timing down to about -2.9 angle corr / 174 IND timing. The amps draw is the same, so is the top speed and it pulls just as hard under WOT. My PWR setting is unchanged at 0.88.
Time will tell if I still have the same overheating issues, but I'm hopeful. :D

Thanks icherouveim!


Cheers
Good morning,

Lets see if it's better like this! send you feedback after some tests.
Generally speaking high values of angle corr, ind timing, PWR and OVS increase overheating.
That's why for me is better to have a 3T motor in order to be able to keep all these values at the lowest settings.
with my 4T motor I have to set them really high to have satisfy acceleration and this leads to overheating after some time.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 16, 2017 6:44 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:managed to reduce my values from around -7 angle corr/ ~390 IND timing down to about -2.9 angle corr / 174 IND timing. The amps draw is the same, so is the top speed and it pulls just as hard under WOT. My PWR setting is unchanged at 0.88.
Oh no !! One more setting session for me too and all the associated head scratching, as a consequence of your message. Based on the noise/amps method, I'll first put a 0° angle corr and change IND values step by step.Then I'll do the contrary by setting IND at 0 and see what happens. I might also test with higher IND but keep it under 300

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by bionicon » Oct 17, 2017 6:25 am

Made a test today with my mid-e and a cyclone 8kw motor at 50 volts, afther autodetect run it with the wheel of the ground, the controller gets directly very hot and shuts down en on. What could be the cause the cyclone motor? I did switch the fases an autodetect again with the same result: very hot controller :(

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by DasDouble » Oct 17, 2017 8:14 am

Do you guys mean by overheating the controller or the motor?
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 17, 2017 8:35 am

Hi, I talk about motor temps

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by bionicon » Oct 17, 2017 10:15 am

and I talk about the controller :shock:

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 17, 2017 12:02 pm

Bionicon you may give more details about your autodetect results, that will help those who know your motor (which I don't) to send you more precise advices

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Willow » Oct 17, 2017 6:00 pm

bionicon wrote:Made a test today with my mid-e and a cyclone 8kw motor at 50 volts, afther autodetect run it with the wheel of the ground, the controller gets directly very hot and shuts down en on. What could be the cause the cyclone motor? I did switch the fases an autodetect again with the same result: very hot controller :(
swap any 2 of the phase wires and run autodetect again...

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Allex » Oct 18, 2017 2:07 am

Stop running adaptto with your middrives and geared motors huys, if you want best results, get something else.
Adaptto was built around DD hub motors.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by bionicon » Oct 18, 2017 3:17 am

to Alex: where on your sales- website is it mentioned that the controllers are only for hubmotors????????

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Merlin » Oct 18, 2017 5:44 am

@ the Angle correction guys...

if you switch it to something other then Autodetect finds A N D you left this "way" much more
as a manual tuning should be, you are entering just OVS terrain.

so if you think that will be run the motor cooler its not the whole truth. i dont know if i explain it well....

look for example....

AngleCorrection:

- Auto finds -10
- start manual tuning (lift wheel, slow throttle and listening)
- switching to -9,-8-7,-6 makes more noise and vibrations
- switching to -11,-12,-13 make ALSO more noise and vibrations
- you find the sweet spot maybe at -11....smooth at least less vibrations....
- now you are going to -5,-4,-3,-2 and hey motor starts again making less vibrations.


but now you are in OVS range allready. even it is set to Zero.
OVS is nothing more....an Angle"Correction" you can watch videos on youtube.

you can simply check if you are allready in OVS mode.
- switch off OVS in Settings
- lift the wheel
- full throttle

close throttle, listen to the sound ....if you can hear for a split second making "rekuperative braking" sounds, you are in OVS range allready.

for comparing just give full throttle with OVS = 0 after auto detect.
there is no reku braking sound letting of the throttle.
AFTER manual tuning you have also never these sounds if you have done it right.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 18, 2017 7:52 am

Thanks merlin

That's what I noticed but still not very clear for me.

Here's my method : I based my trials on the fact that a 3t 3k no load speed on my 26 wheel at around 78v should be close to 100 kmh

Then, with OVS and PWR timing set at 0, I try to find an angle corr + ind timing that matches this 100kmh speed.

This leads to only 2 options :

-12°/ind 640us, motor gets too warm but it's not immediate

and -3° / ind 192 us, motor getting warm way faster + your "brake" bugs when I WOT with no load

So this leads me to keep my -11 and even go to the -12.5 that autodetect suggests.

Am I correct ?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Allex » Oct 18, 2017 8:17 am

bionicon wrote:to Alex: where on your sales- website is it mentioned that the controllers are only for hubmotors????????
Due diligence is always applied before you buy any product. Adaptto site does not state that it works with Hub motors either.
This is why we are here to discuss things that may or may not work. The above has been mentioned here for many, many times. "Adaptto = best with DD"
I get emails about using Adaptto with geared hubbies or some weird mid drives and RC outrunners and I always say the same thing: I do not recommend and you buy it on your own risk.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Merlin » Oct 18, 2017 8:52 am

csc wrote:Thanks merlin

That's what I noticed but still not very clear for me.

Here's my method : I based my trials on the fact that a 3t 3k no load speed on my 26 wheel at around 78v should be close to 100 kmh

Then, with OVS and PWR timing set at 0, I try to find an angle corr + ind timing that matches this 100kmh speed.

This leads to only 2 options :

-12°/ind 640us, motor gets too warm but it's not immediate

and -3° / ind 192 us, motor getting warm way faster + your "brake" bugs when I WOT with no load

So this leads me to keep my -11 and even go to the -12.5 that autodetect suggests.

Am I correct ?
Simply.... Yes

Just sort out at low rpm what sounds better (noise /vibration)

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 18, 2017 10:58 am

Also maybe the problem with the gear motors is somewhere else.
As I said before autodetect function is very sensitive so when you have gears they brake the motor a little bit during autodect and that leads to wrong settings.

To give you an example how sensitive this process is when I've bought my first HS3540 motor there is a protection rubber at the side to protect the phase wires. This rubber was braking the rotor and I was getting wrong -7 -8 angle correction. The motor was overheating in 5 minutes I was very sad and came back at home. after my fist ride it seems the rubber was OK and finally autodetect gave me optimal settings -1.5 angle corr. After that I didn't have any overheating issues with this motor.

So maybe users with mid drives can have better luck if they set up the controller without the chain on while the users that have geared motors cannot do something to make the motor to spin freely. In this case it takes to much time to find the best settings.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by madin88 » Oct 18, 2017 11:56 am

csc wrote:Thanks merlin

That's what I noticed but still not very clear for me.

Here's my method : I based my trials on the fact that a 3t 3k no load speed on my 26 wheel at around 78v should be close to 100 kmh

Then, with OVS and PWR timing set at 0, I try to find an angle corr + ind timing that matches this 100kmh speed.
thats exactly how it should be done.
Calculate the no-load speed based on the actual battery voltage and motor kV, and adjust angle_corr and ind_timing to get this speed (no OVS or speed limits)
I hope you did not forgot to count off about 7% from the calculated speed because of the sine wave control, did you?

The PWR timing i always have set between 1,4 - 2 on all of my MXUS motors and QSV2 alias Cromotor as well. It gives a good result and was recommended from andreym when i was using adaptto the first time.

as for the angle corr of -11° i would suggest to change the hall sensors for Honeywell SS413A (L - type).

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by brumbrum » Oct 19, 2017 1:38 am

I just dont see why people bother with autodetect still. The adaptto manual gives clear instruction on how to manually set up motor direction, angle corr and ind timing. All you need then is to 'use the force' and feel/hear what is happening..... as well as checking amp consumption :wink:
The only other sensible option i have read is to do 3 autodetects and note the angle corr and ind each time and then use an average of the 3, and then fine tune manually. Once these two parameters are ok, it is the pwr timing and ovs which heats up the motor as the controller will use more amps to maintain high torque and speed.

I had issue with one set of hall sensors whixh made controller heat ip fast, so i swapped for my spare set and all ok.
I imagine that if your angle corr is above/below +5 or -5 then something is not right. It is just a fine tuning aid and should not really be far away from zero.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by agedashidofu » Oct 19, 2017 2:43 am

I guess the 1st step is to ensure that your hall sensors are placed correctly (or at least as close to it as possible) - which should minimize the amount of tuning that's needed from Adaptto.

I think Brumbrum is right - in a sense that the Ang Corr should be as close to 0 as possible, as at the end of the day, this should only be a fine tuning tool and not to do major correction on Hall Sensor angles that weren't placed correctly to begin with.

Personally, I've found that the article below really helps!

http://mitrocketscience.blogspot.sg/201 ... t-for.html

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm

Thanks guys ! Trying to figure it out.

Probably no link with these halls issues but since a few weeks, when the bike is shaked by a bump, I sometimes have a "TC" message on the display and at the same time, controller resets to 0 amps to the motor. If I keep accelerating when the bug happens it stays at 0 amps but if the throttle comes back to position 0%, when I re accelerate, it starts again. I triple checked the connectors, it's not the cause. I suspect a weak contact on the temp sensor inside the controller.

Anybody knows what TC means ?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by brumbrum » Oct 20, 2017 1:30 am

csc wrote:Thanks guys ! Trying to figure it out.

Probably no link with these halls issues but since a few weeks, when the bike is shaked by a bump, I sometimes have a "TC" message on the display and at the same time, controller resets to 0 amps to the motor. If I keep accelerating when the bug happens it stays at 0 amps but if the throttle comes back to position 0%, when I re accelerate, it starts again. I triple checked the connectors, it's not the cause. I suspect a weak contact on the temp sensor inside the controller.

Anybody knows what TC means ?
Have you tried turning off your temp sensor on the display to see if it still does this?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 26, 2017 2:05 am

Hi Brumbrum

I talk about the sensor inside of the controller, not the motor, but it's kind of you to try and help. Do you know if there's a posibility - in the software - to turn the controller sensor off ?

And anybody knows what the black "TC" message on the display means exactly ? I really can't find the info on the forum.

Thanks in advance

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 27, 2017 5:40 am

Help !!! Anybody knows what the "TC" message on the display means (white letters in a black square, between the motor temp gauge and the "trip" odometer) ?!!

When it happens the power doesn't go to the motor no more. A few days ago going back to acc 0 then reaccelerate allowed to have thrust again. But it worked less and less until now : it happens so often that I can't use the front motor.
#loveandhateadapttoatthesametime

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 27, 2017 5:45 am

csc wrote:Help !!! Anybody knows what the "TC" message on the display means (white letters in a black square, between the motor temp gauge and the "trip" odometer) ?!!

When it happens the power doesn't go to the motor no more. It now happens so often that I can't use my front motor any more...

#loveandhateadapttoatthesametime
Yes it should be the Traction Control function.
I remember two years ago when I had this function on
when it was slippery this TC message was coming on the screen.
Probably your TC settings are wrong or there is an issue with the controller.
if you have TC on change it to off to see if it makes any difference.

Ioannis

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 27, 2017 6:00 am

Thanks !!!! Let's try this

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