Controller runs all the time

Bought a cheap generic Chinese controller and it starts as soon as the power wires are connected, no throttle connected
Running it sensorless, so only 5 wires connected, the two power wires and the three phase wires.
Almost 5V at red throttle and blk (ground) throttle.
and 3.5V at signal throttle and blk (ground) throttle.
Any ideas on what I could look for.
I got my money back, but would still like to get it to work.
Thanx

motomech said:

Bought a cheap generic Chinese controller and it starts as soon as the power wires are connected.......

Click to expand...

Ok, the word "it" confuses me..........What starts as soon as the power wires (battery wires?) are connected? Does your motor start spinning as soon as you connect the battery to the controller or do the lights go on? What starts as soon as the "power wires" are connected

Please be a bit more specific.

Maybe this is a dumb question but did you check to make sure the wires on throttle match the wires on the controller?

-R

By ""start", I mean the wheel start to turn.
There is a speed limiter, I can connect it and it picks up speed.
It also has a "learning loop". To dis-connect\reconnect it, reverses direction.
there are also these functions;
Ign. turn on(thin red wire I joined with main positive wire).
Halls.
Ebrakes(hi and low).
Gauge(tach or temp.).
PAS.
cruise.

None of the last 5 are connected.

Yes, I am sure about the throttle wires, I ckéd them with a Voltmeter, tried a couple of throttles and, it continues to run the motor with no throttle connected.
There should not be any Voltage at the signal(throttle) wire w\ no throttle connected, so I ckéd where they connect to the PCB, thinking maybe some solder was shunting it from the power wire. No such luck, they seem isolated.

This is the controller:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G92U4KO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

...and did you disconnect the learning wires after the wheel spun the correct direction, shut off power, then turned power back on...in that sequence?

-R

Yeah, did that.
tried all sorts of things, even tried the controller on another motor...not sure why

Did you check the pedal assist wires for shorts on the board and connector? If you hook up brake handles and pull them does the motor shut off? Or just put a short across them?

I've come across controllers that do that when the throttle isn't connected. They need the throttle to pull the signal down. Did you try it with the throttle?

If that doesn't do it, take a 10k or 5k resistor, or any resistor in that range, and connect it between ground and the throttle signal wire. See if that fixes it.

d8veh said:

..... take a 10k or 5k resistor, or any resistor in that range, and connect it between ground and the throttle signal wire. See if that fixes it.

Click to expand...

OK, tried this.
Motor started to spin as soon as battery applied-throttle closed(off).
But, this time.....
opening throttle fully, stops the motor, then(with throttle still open)...
after 2 seconds, the starts to spin in reverse direction.

First tried with 5K Ohn resistor(parallel, throttle signal to throttle gnd.).
Repeated w\ 10 K resistor-same result.

Side notes;
There is an additional 3 wire connector identified in sketchy supplied diagram as "3 gear switch(hi gnd. lo)". It is dis-connected.

Ebrk. functions normally.
Stumped

Is there anything compelling about the controller that would make you take a chance on buying a second unit? The price ($30 w/shipping) is low, plus I like the fact that it's 36/48v, and how about those 2 big caps on the input (KU63's have just one bigger cap). Are those input caps 63V? What FETs are in it. If I didn't have so many controllers lying around I'd buy one myself

-R

If you ground the throttle input signal wire (without throttle connected), what does the controller do? It should stop the motor.

If it doesn't, then I'd guess that something is miswired, and you'd want to trace where each wire goes on the board from each input cable. It's possible whoever wired it at factory put a wire from one cable into another's spot, or bridged something with solder accidentally.


It's also possible the MCU or osmething else is just buggered internally, in which case the rest of it is at least still good for spare parts for a similar unit.


(or you could use it on a "throwaway" thief-catching bike or board, so as soon as they turn on the power it goes uncontrollably in some direction. :lol: )

Some throttles work backwards with some controllers. I've come across that before on Powabykes in the UK. Check to see if that's what's happening with yours. If so, you have to swap the magnets inside the throttle while keeping their exact orientation. You have to mark the m so that you know which way up and what way they point in case you drop one.

AW-I had traced the throttle wires to the PCB, they are in the right holes and the board is clean.

Swapped the magnets in the throttle without the resistor and now it acts like the resistor is still there-can stop the wheel w\the throttle and after a couple of seconds, it starts up by itself in reversed direction.

Russell-PM me your address and I'll send this unit to you to play around with.

D8veh-thanx for your help.

Now that I have you guys here, this is what I need:
This is for a 2wd trail bike. The controller can't be any longer than 145 mm and I don't want to have to use any displays. So I need a LVC around 40V for 12S and something around 20 Amps and able to run sensorless. I would use the KU93, but I have read Russell's report on how they have changed, so it looks like a choice between these;

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2014-3K-SPSC.5TSNR



or a Lyen mini-monster(expensive, but he can set it up any way I want).

What about the SO9P? Does it need a display to run?

Any sugesstions?

Elifebike still carries what they call "normal controllers" that are likely the old model KU63/93 we all love. I picked up a couple of the 48V 6-FET models recently ( http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2012-37-QE34.0KCJE ) and they have the same board as the CON61's I bought from GBK a year ago...which are the same as a KU63. One difference I found however was how the 3-speed switch functioned. I was used to this connector activating about a 75% level-full speed-overspeed(w/halls only) but these worked differently with the default speed being about 75% and "high" speed being normal or 100%.

They also have 9-FET 350 and 500W models

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2012-7Q-P96D.9KNYX
http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2012-37-QE34.0KCJE

With high-C 12S LiPo I don't think you'll have a problem hitting the LVC of a 48V controller too early, at least I didn't when I ran 12S with my motors. Of course if all of the 9-FET controllers above have 63V like the KU93's then you could simply use a 36V model with its lower LVC.

The S09P does use a display. I owned one briefly but blew it up. I took it apart to have a look-see and to strip out wires I didn't want but had difficulty reassembling it. Instead of a strip of FETs mounted to a bar which gets secured to the case the S09P has iirc 3 separate bars that have to be installed over the FETs. I think I skewed one bar and fried a FET when I powered it up.

Oh and thanks for the offer for the controller to play with but I was just curious and have a bunch of controllers lying around as it is. I may however pick up a couple of these 9-FETs just to have around as spares.



-R

PS, the nice thing about the Lyen's or Cellman's 3077/4110 controllers are their programmability. I have one of Cellman's 4110 controllers however unfortunately I stripped out all of the "non-essential" cables, like the program, CA, brake cables. Now of course I wish I hadn't done that.

I own so many other controllers because I have one old 48V KU93 with a shunt clipped for 15A, one 36V KU93 with solder added that delivers 27/26A on 36/48V and one of the new 36/48V 22A models. I also own 4 KU63 type controllers; 1-36V/15A, 1-36V/19A and 2-48V/14A. Oh yeah and I still own an old KU90 with self-learning and auto LVC.

Unfortunately, none of those controllers are any goof if you use PAS, otherwise I'd use them all the time. Not everybody wants to use their bicycle like a motorcycle.

d8veh said:

Unfortunately, none of those controllers are any goof if you use PAS, otherwise I'd use them all the time. Not everybody wants to use their bicycle like a motorcycle.

Click to expand...

The post was for the the OP (motomech).

-R

d8veh said:

Unfortunately, none of those controllers are any goof if you use PAS, otherwise I'd use them all the time. Not everybody wants to use their bicycle like a motorcycle.

Click to expand...

Russell is a bicyclist!
The range he covered in his early mini-motor builds were an inspiration.
I not sure one needs PAS to ride like a bicycle.
I installed Pas on my latest Rocky Mountain redo, but haven't got it working yet.
So, I I lock the motor in #2 assist w\the cruise- 14 mph at 300 to 350 Watts. If I put a leg into it, I can half that.
Really forces me to pedal w\ vigor.

When I used to ride motorcycles, my history with them was the scars on my body.
With Ebikes, it's my box of smoked controllers(less painful).
But the nite I crossed the leads on my Lyen Mini-monster hurt
That taught me, when it's late at nite and I'm tired, stop working on the bike!
the sensorless module worked really well, I swear it got smarter over time. It would sync-up 90% of the time without pedal input.
And the time my brother-in-law threw away a pair of 63V KU63's while cleaning out the garage, I had forgot them when I moved
Until two weeks ago, I had two S12S's, until I tried to grind down the shunt. I must have taken too much off because when I plugged it in, I heard a faint pop and that was that.
Some day I'm going to teach myself how to fix them(at least one or two).

Anyhow, I ordered one of these;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321479310604

and one of these;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321479310603

Both from Elifebike.
They are 9-fet but short in length
Run senorless and
have 42 LVC's. With 12S, that's 3.5V per\cell
The 350W unit for the MXUS frt. and the 500W for the original Ezee rear.
Halls blown in both motors, so when I get stuck in the bottom of a gully, hopefully one or the other will sync and I can get going up hill.
Now, the wait.

motomech said:

Until two weeks ago, I had two S12S's, until I tried to grind down the shunt. I must have taken too much off because when I plugged it in, I heard a faint pop and that was that.

Click to expand...

Hmm. Taking material off the shunt will decrease the amount of current the controller will provide (it increases the shunt's resistance, making the controller think it's outputting more current than it really is).

So, unless some of the ground-off material fell between some normally-not-connected conductors somewhere and shorted them, it shouldn't hurt anything to do this, and shouldn't cause a pop.

I suspect somethign unrelated caused the pop; perhaps a pinched wire in reassembly, or something similar?

you mentioned this is a two wheel drive bike. how do you control the two controllers? do you use two separate throttles or just the one throttle and is that connected to both of the controllers now? there are no pictures of how it is assembled.

Yeah, this bike isn't finished yet, but the set-up for throttles will be the same as my street bike.
Left-hand half-twist and thumb next to each other;





Most of the time I ride on rear motor only, but when using both, the action is very natural feeling.
Rotating hand activates both equally.

Using two packs right now, but they were built to be able to configure to one with jumper cables.
Might try that tonite.

Where did you get the left-hand thumb throttle?

-R

try grounding the signal line on the controller and see if it still runs. double check continuity of the ground to the throttle from the controller. it might be floating. by that i mean determine if the ground in the three wire plug from the controller is continuous with the ground on the controller board.

Russell said:

Where did you get the left-hand thumb throttle?

-R

Click to expand...

It's just the generic thumb unit mounted on the left.