The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jul 23, 2017 8:34 pm

Today I replaced the failing turn signal switch; the plastic pivot inside has been getting worse and worse till yesterday it refused to give any left turn signals unless I pressed in on it with my thumb whiel it was switched over to the left signal. :/

I've got a box of switches that IIRC my dad had saved from some piece of mainframe computer equipment decades back, and gave me in a box maybe 20 years ago? Not sure anymore, but I've used a fair number of them for things over the years.
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Most are On-Off-On DP3T center-off types, a few are On-On-On DP3T, a few more are On-Off-On DPDT and 4PDT types that only toggle to two positions, not to center. Most of the above are toggles, a few are rockers. There's also some momentary NO switches with built in bulbs, and some assorted other types. All of them are about as old as I am, from the late 1960s.
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For turn signals, the On-Off-On DP3T CO works best; in toggle form, so I can switch it with my thumb. It's a little metal stick-toggle type, with a rubber cover over it (not waterproof, but will work for my purposes).


First up was removing the control unit from the bars,
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which meant removing the grip, throttle, and one of the brake levers on the left side (the brake light), to get the unit off and remove the defective switch from the control unit, without breaking any of the rest of the unit's switches/etc...which I almost managed. I did damage the one on top that switches all the downlighting; now it only engages if in-between the on and off positions, and I can't see anything wrong with it's contacts or mechanism. :/ At least it does still work and it will stay in that position, but if it fails I'll have to replace that, too (or just wire around it, as I don't turn the downlighting off very often).

Then removed the old switch bits
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Had to scrape out a bit of material here and there to fit the new turnsignal switch body fully into the unit.
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Then I soldered in the wires with it in-place, because I couldn't hold the switch, the wires, and the soldering iron and solder, so with the unit mounted on the end of the bar, and the switch mounted in the unit, it was much easier with only three things to juggle. ;)
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Reinstalled the control unit, brakelight lever, and throttle,
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but I put new grips on as the ones I had before were mismatched, and the crappy rubber one on the right side has always slipped slowly off over a ride and had to be moved back up each time. :/ The one on the left was actually a good grip, with finger-indents/ridges, by Schwinn, and is teh same as the ones on CrazyBike2; all three are from the late 1960s or early 70s--but I don't have a fourth, and don't want to move one from CB2. So I just put a new matched pair on there, from a box of throttles/grips I got some time back. They aren't the greatest, but they'll do, since I don't rest my weight on them at all due to the handlebar and seat configuration.



I also did a bit of work on the left front turn signal housing, which has been broken apart between the housing and the mount for a long time, and held together with electrical tape. Until I get a replacment (or make something), I'll use it as it is; for now I used an old soldering iron and melted the plastic housing to the plastic mounting. I think it's ABS plastic, but it doesnt' work well with the solvent-based glues I have, so none of them I've tried ahve fully bonded the parts together. Melting, however, worked. Might still break off again; we'll see. STill better than it was. :)


I almost got to mounting the car horns on there, but it got too hot and humid for me, and I had to go in for a while, then I dozed off sitting here typing this up. Now there's a storm moving in, so dunno if I'll get to the rest of the stuff tonight.


EDIT: with the high gusty winds I didn't get antyhing else done on the trike out there last couple of hours; but teh storms are just passing us to south and north and east but nothing over the main part of the valley itself except tempe/mesa/southeast of there. Winds are died down, no rain, not even sprinkles, here.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jul 25, 2017 3:56 am

Today the blinker unit for the turn signals is engaging even without the switch engaged to either right or left. No additional current was being used, so it isnt' a short, but it is MUCH more humid than yesterday, between the rain last night and the bigger storm that dumped on us for a couple hours this morning.

So perhaps the electronics inside the blinker unit are reacting to that humidity. The trike itself has been parked under cover inside the shed, so while it hasn't been rained on it is still exposed directly to all the outside air (and humidity).

The blinker itself isn't sealed; there was a time previously that it did get rainwater in it, which cuased it to behave abnormally, so perhaps that previous exposure left behind contaminants that the humidity is reactivating.


If it continues to misbehave I'll open it up and see about cleaning it out iwth alcohol or something.

In the meantime, it still does what it is supposed to when engaged to either turn signal; it just also clicks on and off constantly while riding, which is very annoying, as it can just be heard over the wind noise. :/


The humidity is also affecting the brakes, making them squeal contsntantly whenever engaged--the front front ones are horrendously loud and high pitched, while the front rear are just really annoying and lower pitched by more than an octave.


The new grips are quite an improvement over the old ones; they're wider diameter which means my hands rest differently on them, and it is much easier to hold them with less hand pain.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jul 29, 2017 2:12 am

I opened up the blinker when it got sunny and drier, to let it air out but it made no difference. Didn't get to cleaning it wiht alcohol or anything; ran out of time.

Yet today, when the weather changed back to humid and stormy and rainy, the blinker suddenly worked normally; only clicking on/off when actually switched to engage a turn signal.

:?

Worked fine for the trip to and the trip back from work; we'll see how it does tomorrow/etc., as it's going to stay humid with 30-40% chance of rain the next several days.

Brakes noisier than ever with the humidity, though. :(


On the way to work I had to wait in a line of traffic creeping along toward the traffic light, and some people waiting to cross the street were pointing at the trike and grinning/laughing/smirking, right up to the point the light went green and I was able to accelerate at full power, when most of them just stopped and stared slackjawed instead, a couple of them saying "WOW" loud enough to hear over the wind and traffic. :lol:

Yeah, the trike looks funny, but it gets me around well enough. ;)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jul 31, 2017 10:49 pm

I've been planning to add parking brakes for a while, but was hoping to simply use the rear mechanical brakes with a locking pin...but I have yet to get the frame around the wheel modified to accept the brake bosses and arms, etc.

But I need ot do something, because I've had several situations in sloped parking lots in which I had to use the cable lock thru the wheel and frame to prevent the trike rolling away while parked, just so I could get off the trike and load or unload something, etc. It's difficult for me ot do that from the seat, and even harder to undo it from the seat, but that's the only option in some of these situations--the front brake isn't enough once I get off--the trike begins to roll anyway, front tire sliding slowly across the oily parking spot. :(


So the plan has been to put on a pair of old wheelchair handbrakes, the kind with a blade/bar/etc that pushes into the tread of the tire and keeps the tire from rolling. Just that the weather's been too hot to deal with it, on the days and times I've had to work on it, or I've had other higher priority things to do.


Yesterday I got the old steel wheelchair handbrake/wheellocks out, so I could put them on the rear wheels of the trike. But aside from the heat and humidity making me feel sick enough to not be able to stay out in it very long, I had a worse problem:

The handbrake units are made in Left and Right variations, and since the brake arms that actually engage the tires on a wheelchair are on the same side of the mounting point as the handles used to push the levers down, there is no way to just bolt, clamp, or weld these onto the trike frame anywhere that lets me both access the handles *and* have the arms reach the tires. :(

Some good news is that they are made in a way that I could drill out the rivets clamping the mechanism together (these are also the pivot points for all the parts). Then I could take the handle lever from the L brake and use it on the R brake, and vice-versa, which might allow me to fit these in a way I can reach them and still have them work.

Alternately, since they are steel, I might be able to cut off most of the existing handle levers, and weld new ones on that go around the frame.

In this heat and humidity, especially with no breeze, it's just more than I can handle, so I used an alternate for now.


I also have a set of aluminum brake units off a different wheelchair, used on Tiny's doggie wheelchair. It's been sitting unused in a shed since her death, in hopes I'll never need one like it again but knowing that I might well need such a solution for any of these big dogs as they get older. Since it's unlikely I'll need the handbrakes on it for a long while, I've pulled them off to use on the trike. (if I have to I can move them back in an hour or less).

These happen to be shaped such that they will fit and let me reach everything and still securely hold the wheel in braked state for parking.


So I've now got parking brakes that will hold the trike in position on a slope, etc. Theyr'e also partly backup security, so I don't have pics of them posted. (sorry :oops:)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 05, 2017 4:48 pm

The blinker problem gets odder: Now it is fine when I first turn on the trike in the heat of the day (100F+), but within a minute it clicks once or twice, then over the next minute or two it clicks more often, until it reaches the normal turn signal frequency.

It doesn't matter what voltage level the battery is at (near full or near empty).


However, if I turn it on at the end of a shift at work, when the temperature is around 82-85F in the breakroom it's been parked in for 8-9 hours, it clicks immediately at the normal turn signal frequency. :/


I need to disconnect the blinker from the trike entirely and just wire it up to the lighting battery on it's own, and see if it still has this problem. If so, then it's the blinker itself, internally. If not, it's something in the wiring or switch allowing a leakage current just sufficient to trigger the blinker...under certain conditions.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 05, 2017 9:53 pm

amberwolf wrote:The blinker problem gets odder: Now it is fine when I first turn on the trike in the heat of the day (100F+), but within a minute it clicks once or twice, then over the next minute or two it clicks more often, until it reaches the normal turn signal frequency.

It doesn't matter what voltage level the battery is at (near full or near empty).


However, if I turn it on at the end of a shift at work, when the temperature is around 82-85F in the breakroom it's been parked in for 8-9 hours, it clicks immediately at the normal turn signal frequency. :/


I need to disconnect the blinker from the trike entirely and just wire it up to the lighting battery on it's own, and see if it still has this problem. If so, then it's the blinker itself, internally. If not, it's something in the wiring or switch allowing a leakage current just sufficient to trigger the blinker...under certain conditions.

You PROBABLY already know this, but...

... Old school binkers were intentionally designed for a specific load and blink at odd rates - sometimes slower, sometimes faster depending on the manufacturer - to tell you that you likely have either a bulb out or some other kind of wiring fault.

So, most likely, it has nothing to do with the supply (voltage or current) but everything to do with the load. Now, WHY that would change under the circumstances you describe?! Hmmm... Real puzzler! Good hunting!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 06, 2017 1:56 am

This is a new-type LED-compatible blinker unit. I forget which model, but it's probably back in the thread somewhere, or in CrazyBike2's (I use the same model there after the old 1980's relay-based unit finally failed unrepairably).

It has three leads, the Battery+, Battery-, and Signal Out (where the blinkers connect).

A very tiny load (possibly microamps) can trigger the blink circuit. The rate is constant regardless of load.

The problem I am seeing is not a different blink rate, but that it is more or less "ramping up" to blink at the normal rate, with what amount to intermittent randomly-spaced clicks that increase irregularly from none to normal regular rate.


During this time and anytime afterward, I can switch to left or right signal "on" and it will operate the blinker normally at the correct rate, and switching off returns back to the same point in the irregular/intermittent sequence. Meaning, use of the blinker doesn't alter what is occuring that shouldn't...which implies the problem is in the bike wiring or switch, and not the blinker. If it is the blinker it ought to change the behavior of it to engage it normally--either reset it to the zero state or advance it to the always-clicking state, or something. But it doesn't. :/




However, it's apparently more complicated than that, as after having had the above event sequence for days, today (right after I posted the above, of course), it took most of my ~10-minute ride to work to get from zero "switched off" blinks to about halfway into the irregularly-intermittent "blink (few seconds) blink (few seconds) blink blink blink (few seconds) blink blink blink blink (few seconds) blink (few seconds) blink (few seconds)" etc.

Today it never did reach the always-blinking stage--but still works normally whenever switched to the left or right signals.

But when I powered it on after my work shift, it began always-blinking normal speed immediately upon power on, and kept doing that nearly the whole ride home; around the time I rolled into the driveway it began becoming intermittent.


It seems to indicate further that it is temperature based, as it was nearly 108F when I left home, and reached over 117F on the steering tiller (where the temperature sensor is near to the tube) during the ride itself, with the sun shining on the trike's metal frame.

When sitting in the breakroom it was around 85F today (there's no direct A/C back there so just what wafts in around the swinging doors). It was still 95F on the way home, so the trike heated back up on the way home, affecting the problem.


I'll try to do the off-trike blinker test tomorrow, whcih will at least tell me if it's the trike or the blinker.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 07, 2017 5:53 am

Off-trike blinker test shows the blinker operates normally.

Before doing the test, I turned the trike on to ensure the problme still existed, and it did, but never (in an hour of sitting there while I did other things) got past the intermittent-random stage.

I pulled the blinker off and wired it to just the battery, nothing to signal out pin, and let it sit for an hour, no clicking.

Started adding loads to it, beginning with wet fingertips, and it will begin clicking normally even with that. So...I looked for some high-ohm pots but couldn't find my box of stuff like that, and it was too hot (109F in the shade under a tree, hotter inside evne the opened-up sheds) to be digging in the sheds for more than a couple minutes at a time. At that point I decided the blinker was fine, and it has to be something on the trike.


So I ohmed out the signal out line that plugs into the blinker, to both ground and power and the trike frame, etc. Everything reads in the megohms, with the switch in off position and battery disconnected (blinker still off bike). Switch in left or right position and it shows a few ohms, from the incandescent bulbs front and rear.


I undid the tape over the various wire splices in the turn signal system, and found nothing unsual under any of them, no corrosion, etc. I did this with power on and blinker installed and siwtch in off position, so that if there was a connection isue it should change the problem when I began moving it around. I ddin't see that happen.

But when I got to checking the actual signal lamps/mounts themselves, the left front incandescent signal wires did change the prblem when moved, though I could see nothing about them that should do so. I opened the mount up and pulled the lamp housing out, dangling by it's wires, and the problem stopped. Left it that way for about half an hour with no clicking.

Could see nothing wrong with any wires, no cuts in insulation, no corrosion on the outside, etc., but as soon as I lifted the housing up and began to mvoe the wires to put it back in, I got intermittent clicking again, in certain positions. But in those positions there are no contacts between the wires, or them and casings, etc., and the housing is plastic. So I don't know what actually is causing the problem. I ended up carefully tucking the wires in in a way that doesn't trigger the clicks, and reinstalled the housing and light cover, and now it doesn't have the problem.

Left that on for a few hours while I did other things and never heard another click, even moving the trike around the yard / etc to get pics of it.

Took it on a test ride to the store, and didn't hear the problem the whole time...until I got nearly home and it clicked a couple of times, but never after that so far.


So now I think I know where the problme is located, but not *why* it is happening there.




Below are the pics I took of it's present state:
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 07, 2017 11:23 am

amberwolf wrote: Could see nothing wrong with any wires, no cuts in insulation, no corrosion on the outside, etc., but as soon as I lifted the housing up and began to mvoe the wires to put it back in, I got intermittent clicking again, in certain positions. But in those positions there are no contacts between the wires, or them and casings, etc., and the housing is plastic. So I don't know what actually is causing the problem.
I know.

It's one of those infernal wire-broken-inside-insulation problems - somewhat rare, but as you discovered, very real. And very frustrating. If you replace the wires on that side, that should be a permanent cure (until something else goes wrong, as life is just a continual sequence of problems to solve)...

Love the photos. Especially liked seeing the cargo bed, and the stuffed puppy at the wheel! I want a warning sign like yours for the back of my trailer! ...AND a Baby-On-Board sign, now that I think of it! :lol:

Now that I've got an e-bike, I've been thinking for some time about adding turn signals and other lighting - a proper setup. But they don't seem to make stuff like that intended for bicycles and the motorcycle type stuff seems pretty heavy and ill suited to a bike. So, I guess I'll be on my own about the engineering. Seeing your stuff helps a person think about it - thanks for posting!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 07, 2017 5:41 pm

RTIII wrote:It's one of those infernal wire-broken-inside-insulation problems - somewhat rare, but as you discovered, very real. And very frustrating. If you replace the wires on that side, that should be a permanent cure (until something else goes wrong, as life is just a continual sequence of problems to solve)...
Replacing the wires will probably fix it, but:

It wouldn't be a problem with the wires being broken inside the insulation, as having no or poor connection wouldn't cause a load on the blinker unit, but it could cause the light itself to sometimes not work, or not be as bright as it should be.

Since there's no problems with the light actually operating when it's triggered to do so, then it isn't a connection / partial-open issue.

To cause a load on the blinker and trigger it, it just about has to be that the wires have cracked insulation (rather than conductor) and are "leaking" current into each other. (can't be to the frame or housing as that's plastic).

Even so, I'm not sure how anything beyond a direct short between the conductors would be any lower resistance than the incandescent light bulb they are attached to. But since there's zero problems with the actual light working when it should, I don't see how it could be a short, either.

(FWIW, there also has to be a problem in the switch itself, too, where it slightly conducts even when "off", or else the light wiring couldn't affect the blinker unit).

Love the photos. Especially liked seeing the cargo bed, and the stuffed puppy at the wheel!
That's Tiny's avatar; Tiny was the dog this was basically built up as a dog carrier for (though it could carry Yogi too, barely); she loved to ride in it.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =1&t=68997
I want a warning sign like yours for the back of my trailer!
I found mine on the side of the road (as well as the hitch ball, on a different trip). You can buy them for about $10 or less; I think harbor freight carries them.

Now that I've got an e-bike, I've been thinking for some time about adding turn signals and other lighting - a proper setup. But they don't seem to make stuff like that intended for bicycles and the motorcycle type stuff seems pretty heavy and ill suited to a bike. So, I guess I'll be on my own about the engineering. Seeing your stuff helps a person think about it - thanks for posting!
Teklektik has a good thread about wiring this stuff up (though I didn't do mine that way).


Keep in mind that the smaller the lights are, the less likely they are to be seen. Making them brighter does NOT make up for that. (I've tried out a lot of lighting setups over the years, long before I started adding motors to the bikes)

The larger the lit surface area is, the more likely they are to be seen, even at a lower brightness level, day or night.

LED stuff generally will be lower power and probably lighter weight, but you should still use the ones with the biggest lit-up surface areas you can get or make.


Also, especially at night, the smaller the lights are the more likely others on the road are to judge that you are still far away, and that they have plenty of time (even when they don't) to do whatever they're gonna do.

The larger the lights are the closer you look, and the more likely others are to hesitate before running you over in a dumb maneuver.

People have been trained to judge distances by the size of lights on cars and traffic lights, so lights about the size of your hand (posed in a "stop" gesture, but sideways) or larger are about right for getting them to judge your distance correctly.

They may still misjudge your *speed*, but that's another subject. ;)



And a bright pinpoint light at night may actually make someone look *away* from you where the same overall brightness spread out on a larger surface area is much easier to look at and won't cause them to look away.



Downlighting, like the LED strips I have on the bottom of the handlebars, cargo rack, and downtube of SB Cruiser, will light up the road around you and make you look larger (and closer), and more visible overall.


My lighting has gotten more positive comments than anything else about any of my bikes, inluding from law enforcement. :)


Oh, and for how a "normal" bicycle would look with the very same turn signals presently on SB Cruiser, see my old DayGlo Avenger project:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 00#p314600

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 09, 2017 6:13 am

Leeeeetle problem found today:
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The actual breakage almost certainly occurred Sunday night on the way home from the grocery stores, when I had a heavier than usual load of perhaps 110-120lbs+, mostly Raine's groceries and whatnot, some of it mine and some for the dogs.

Normally that's not a problem, but I had to go around a few miles of detours as there were various blockages of my normal route home by emergency vehicles dealing with collisions in several intersections, with people blocking even the sidewalks (mostly onlookers/gawkers, but some officers (taking reports I'd guess)).

With the ways out of Metrocenter east, west, and south blocked, I ended up all the way back up at the north end of going to head out along Peoria west to 35th avenue and back down around south to where I coudl actually get home. But due to traffic congestion on the normal exit, I went around to a different street with less stupid people on it, that I havent' been on in years.

In the dark, even wtih my lights, because of the lights of cars shining in my eyes, I couldn't see the pothole at the edge of the street corner, so I managed to hit it with the right rear wheel pretty square on, only about 15mph but at the load I had...it was enough.

As soon as I hit the pothole and came out of it, the tire was rubbing so hard on the frame that only full power on both motors would keep it moving, so I stopped right there, with little choice.

At the time, I *thought* that all that had happened was that the inboard axle had slipped in the pinch-dropout (which has happened once before, some long time back, under similar conditions), so I just got the wrench and my cane out, set the brakes, tilted the trike up on the left wheel to get to the righthand inboard pinch bolt nut, and loosened it enough to pull the bottom of the right wheel out (which would push the inboard axle downwards back to where it should be), then retightened the pinch bolt nut, lowered the trike, and headed home without further problems (so I thought).

I did notice that the right wheel felt like it "thunked" in the dropouts whnever I used the ebrake, as it's quite a powerful active braking on that side and if the pinch bolt isn't tight enough it'll rock a bit in there. But it wasnt' a big deal so I didn't worry about it, and got home with out incident.

I didn't go anywhere the next day, so the next test of it was my work commute today (tuesday) there and back home.


On the way to work, on some of the "washboard" areas it began to rub a bit again (but not badly, just enough to hear), so later at work (lunchtime) I redid the alignment again. On teh way home it was fine utnil again I got to some bad road areas, and again it began to rub just audibly.

So when I got home, after feeding the dogs I set out to remove the wheel to just go ahead and weld-fill the pinch dropout sides so the inboard axle *couldn't* slip upward anymore.

I rolled the trike on it's side to make this easy, and setup some lights on the area, then I saw something unexpected--teh axle separated from the motor. :( A clear 1/16" gap, no less!

So that explained why it didnt' stay even with a tight pinch bolt and why it "knocked" during ebraking, etc.


There's actually still a tiny bit of axle left on the motor, maybe 1/8" or a bit less, so there's still *something* for the pinch dropout to hold on to, and to keep the wheel from slipping upward, etc. But because of he spacing of hte dropouts and hte 1/8" thick washer I have on the outboard dropout's outboard side, that little stub doesnt' sit in the inboard dropout. It's probably the only reason it's still even there, and didnt' completely shear off with the rest of the axle.

So I pulled off that washer, and put one on the inboard side of the outboard dropout instead, to push the whole motor over enough to force that stub into the inboard dropout.
dsc06542.jpg
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dsc06545.jpg
dsc06545.jpg (48.06 KiB) Viewed 684 times
However...when I originally built the pinching dropout, I screwed up and welded the pinch side the wrong way, so the pinch is not applied directly across the faces of the dropouts, but instead a twisting is applied to them that pulls the outboard faces apart, pulling the inboard ones together.
dsc06548.jpg
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dsc06540.jpg
dsc06540.jpg (52.38 KiB) Viewed 684 times
That means that the tiny stub doesn't get pinched by the bolt, and is actually loosened by it. So I have to leave the bolt just tight enough to hold it in place, and then wedge (with some wood and a hammer) the inboard side of the pinch plates *apart* to force the outboard side closed a bit.


Since the axle can still be pulled downward, by a turn that would pull the bottom of the right wheel outward, which then rubs the inboard side of the top of the right wheel on the fender frame, I also had to hammer in a wooden wedge to prevent the axle from being able to move downward. Upward doesnt' appear to be a problem now, because of the way the rest of the axle shoulder sits up against the welds.


I rode it around a bit and it seems ok so far, but it probably won't hold up to loads or riding on the bad parts of the roads, at least not for long.

So I'm going to have to get that other MXUS3k fixed up (wiring, maybe halls) and laced up into this wheel instead of the now-broken-axle'd X5304. Which will also require rebuilding the dropouts and fender frame on this side, to widen the space for it so it will fit (it'a s rear, while the x5304 was a front). Or grind the MXUS3k axle to continue it's flats down past the shoulder so it'll fit in there anyway. (which is more likely what I'll end up doing).


If I can't get the MXUS going or it's gonna take too much time (for now), I could pull the wiring of the X5304 back thru it's axle slot/cover, and with the cover off, weld the axle stub back on and grind the flats back down, since I don't need the threads on that side at all, just the flats to pinch and hold it for torque transfer.


We'll see what happens....

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 09, 2017 12:04 pm

amberwolf wrote:Since there's no problems with the light actually operating when it's triggered to do so, then it isn't a connection / partial-open issue.
Oh! Oops, I misunderstood the problem. ... It's going off on its own?! :lol: It's ghosts, I tell you! A ghost is in the machine! :lol:

I've worked on a number of these systems before. One strategy I like is to have the blinker "permanently" wired "on" and hooked up to a three way switch, off, left, or right. When in the off position, there's no conduction possible - the load side is "open." And with left or right selected, of course, the actual load (bulbs) are connected to the load side of the blinker and -ta-da!- blinking lights! ... Any other setup - and I've seen quite a few! - is relatively crazy, to my mind. In the scenario I paint, if it works at all, the blinker side of the equation is out of the loop, so to speak, and the issue would have to be the switch - down stream from the switch, either side, you can of course have issues, but then it should be clearly isolated; either doesn't work, blows fuses, or blinks at an odd rate due to load anomaly.
amberwolf wrote:
I want a warning sign like yours for the back of my trailer!
I found mine on the side of the road (as well as the hitch ball, on a different trip). You can buy them for about $10 or less; I think harbor freight carries them.
Cool. What I'm thinking about doing is mounting one of those to the rear crate on the back rack and point a HEADLIGHT at the sign! :) ... Think of it like a license-plate light on a car, but pointed at one of those signs! This will make it large, well lit, and HIGH UP! And, it's a common BARRIER warning, like a road-side obstruction of some sort, so PERFECT!

I've seen photos of some nerdly person who put a working fluorescent light tube along the top tube of his road bike and lit it up at night! WOW, talk about lighting up the road and all around you! :) This guy was EASY to see! If the glass tubes weren't so fragile, I might consider something like that.

BTW, thanks for the pointer to Teklektik - I'll be looking it up shortly. Also, all your recommendations on sizing, lighting up the whole road around you and such are spot on. And, there's another issue; sometimes a single red light is a huge mistake because some drivers, tired, perhaps drunk, tend to follow the red light in front of them no matter what. I'm told by some that this is what the blinking red is all about - alerting drivers that what they're seeing isn't the tail lamp of a far away car at all since cars don't have blinking red lights as tail lamps. I have mixed perceptions about it.

I think I need to learn more about downward, road directed lighting - are there commercial off the shelf products intended for this (other than the red "laser" with a bicycle image projected at the road behind the rider - seen, and BOUGHT that one)? If so, what kind of web search might I do - ie; what are they called?

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 09, 2017 12:36 pm

amberwolf wrote:Leeeeetle problem found today:
dsc06538.jpg
If I can't get the MXUS going or it's gonna take too much time (for now), I could pull the wiring of the X5304 back thru it's axle slot/cover, and with the cover off, weld the axle stub back on and grind the flats back down, since I don't need the threads on that side at all, just the flats to pinch and hold it for torque transfer.
Wow, sorry to see that failure, amberwolf.

I've done a lot of welding like that. I have a few suggestions, if you're going to try that.

It's good that you don't really require the threads to work because you have just about zero chance of getting the threads to line up from one end to the other without doing something special about it. Here are my three observations about that:

1) weld on a mild steel rod of appropriate diameter to cut new threads that match the existing. In this case, bench-grinder-mounted or angle-grinder mounted wire wheel the to-be-salvaged axle part, run a die over the old threads, and then thread the die on there backwards, and put it as far from the weld area as you can. Then, weld on a length of your new steel rod, longer than you need so it will help absorb heat, tacking gently at first, centering it as best you can, and then do DEEP penetrating weld. If you bevel - put a point on - the new steel rod before welding, so much the better, BUT it can make centering a lot harder. Maybe put a 45 bevel on one side of the rod and tack there first, using the other side to help get centering, then weld the one side well, rotate over, grind down the new rod to make room for a weld and then complete the welding, followed up by lopping off the new material at the appropriate length and cutting new threads to get the die off. Or;

2) use a slotted "long nut" to help get the threading right. For some thread diameters and thread pitches, you can buy super long nuts. Take one of these and cut a 1/3 diameter pie slice out, run a tap through it to clean out the burrs created by slicing and thread it on to the few exposed original threads and use the slit nut to get alignment of new all-thread or the end of an appropriate bolt that you'll weld in. This gets the threads in perfect alignment. I've done this many times quite successfully. You can also make such a long nut by welding together standard nuts that have been threaded on to a rod or bolt (and NOT tightened to the rod / bolt!) ... Most likely you'll have to cut the long nut off, or you can weld shallow at first, unthread the long nut, then follow up with more welding / grinding, running a die, etc, but at least the threads will line up. Or;

3) just recognize you're not going to get the threads aligned and consider it as two separate threaded areas, putting the break / repair location in the metal that is pretty much right where it was - just inside the mounting area where no threads are needed. Start of course by wire-brushing clean the few remaining threads and put that nut back on there and thread it in as far away from the heat as it will go, use a new threaded bolt as donor material, and weld / grind as needed. This is the most simple of my approaches but has the drawback that now you can't ever thread those nuts or whatever to the center from this end ever again, so plan for that.

Of course, if you can pull the axle shaft out completely (I'd be surprised if it isn't keyed or at least splined), I'd do that. In fact, maybe the easiest course is to just replace the axle shaft? Is it unique to the hub motor (I guess it is) and are there no spares available? ... Anyway, if you can get the old axle out (and have to repair it), I recommend doing that and using a bench-mounted wire wheel to clean it, then thread a die over the threads inboard of the break.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 09, 2017 2:53 pm

RTIII wrote:It's good that you don't really require the threads to work because you have just about zero chance of getting the threads to line up from one end to the other without doing something special about it.
Yeah, and the welding (which has to be hot and deep) is going to distort the whole area, most likely leaving even the threads not actually covered in slag or welded-thru unusable anyway.

The pinch dropout, which covers the whole length fo the axle, negates even the ability to use the threads, so thankfully it makes that whole problem moot. I could use a 10mm thick flat bar welded to the axle shoulder face instead, and use that too. (I might, actually, if I remember where I put the leftovers from the dropout construction).

Here are my three observations about that:
Those will definitely be useful if I have to repair an axle (or anything else) that I *do* have to use the threads on. :)


Of course, if you can pull the axle shaft out completely (I'd be surprised if it isn't keyed or at least splined), I'd do that. In fact, maybe the easiest course is to just replace the axle shaft? Is it unique to the hub motor (I guess it is) and are there no spares available?
No, no spares (not from the manufacturer, at least). This motor (and various other Crystalytes both new and old) have had axle-break problems for as long as I'm aware, and there are several threads about replacement axles and other stuff, though AFAIK none of the people making those still do so, and it wouldnt' be worth the money (even if I had it) to buy one, since I *can* do a repair that will work for me at least for a while. :)

If I had a press (I could probably build one) then I could likely press the axle out and install a new one, but if I did I'd want to have a redesigned one, and new covers that used much larger bearings, so the wires could be better-insulated (and possibly larger) and fit between the axle and bearings rather than have any kind of modification to the axle itself to alllow them to pass.

That sort of thing has been proposed for any number of motors around here, but I don't remember which (if any) manufacturers have actually done that on bicycle motors. On bicycles, it wouldn't work on a standard ISO disc brake rear motor, because neither side has a large enough diameter hole thru disc or cluster to allow that. A non-disc-cable motor could do it easily on the left side, and a front motor could do it on the right even if it had disc mounts on the left. (but you'd want quite the fork and steerer and headset/headtube to hold up to the power made possible by such a modification :lol:).

But in my case, I don't really need to replace the axle, even if that would be the better option. I considered it right back when I got this motor, as the axle was already obviously damaged, with both ends bent "down" a bit--but stopped worrying about it some time back.


So first I'll see about fixing the other MXUS wiring, and test it's stator in the first MXUS's rotor. If that goes well, then I'll set about rim/spoke transfer and just use that.

Otherwise, I'll take the x5304 apart and weld a 10mm thick bar/tab on there in place of the axle stub, wide enough to just barely fit within the cover's hole (which I think is either 18 or 20mm). I'll probably end up doing this anyway, just so I can use the motor for something else, either the front of the trike or the back of CrazyBike2, or for the next contraption I build. :)



BTW, another thing using a tab vs an axle would allow is a cotter pin of some type, or an extra bolt, that runs thru the pinch dropout plate and thru the tab, securing them together much better than just a pinch or an axle nut would.

So there's a chance I may experiment with that regardless of what I do for this present repair.

I have a week's time off coming up later this month, so assuming the weather's not unbearable and nothing else gets in the way, I'll be working on this then, if circumstances don't force action sooner.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 09, 2017 3:07 pm

RTIII wrote:Oh! Oops, I misunderstood the problem. ... It's going off on its own?! :lol: It's ghosts, I tell you! A ghost is in the machine! :lol:
There are quite a few living in my contraptions, so that's not really a surprise. ;)

I've worked on a number of these systems before. One strategy I like is to have the blinker "permanently" wired "on" and hooked up to a three way switch, off, left, or right. When in the off position, there's no conduction possible - the load side is "open." And with left or right selected, of course, the actual load (bulbs) are connected to the load side of the blinker and -ta-da!- blinking lights!
That is exactly how this system works, just like a motorcycle or car or scooter's system. ;)


Cool. What I'm thinking about doing is mounting one of those to the rear crate on the back rack and point a HEADLIGHT at the sign! :) ... Think of it like a license-plate light on a car, but pointed at one of those signs! This will make it large, well lit, and HIGH UP! And, it's a common BARRIER warning, like a road-side obstruction of some sort, so PERFECT!
It's actually the SMV (slow moving vehicle) sign, specifically intended and required for motor vehicles travelling 25MPH or less on a road with a higher speed limit. It is not required for bicycles, of course, but there is no legal restriction against using it on one. :)

It is reflective on the three outer "bars", and simply bright orange on the rest of it. So it is difficult to *not* see if it is placed in the path of headlights, at night, even without any lighting of it's own.

You could also add LED lighting in a box on the "back" of the sign (in front of it as it sits on the bike or trailer) to light it from within; the one I have is sufficiently transmissive that it'll light up orange everywhere except the reflective areas, and those will show up under any car headlights easily enough.

I've seen photos of some nerdly person who put a working fluorescent light tube along the top tube of his road bike and lit it up at night!
Yes, I did that too--but as you note those are very fragile and vibrations will destroy them quickly; the heaters inside the tube will break if nothing else happens. I also tried CCFL lamps, first from computer cases and then from scanners and LCD backlighting, etc--same problem.

There's a company called RockTheBike that did this commercially, though I don't think they make them anymore, and that's where I originally got the idea more than a decade ago, IIRC.

So I would recommend the LED strips instead--look thru this or DDK's solar trike thread for specific manufacturer info. (others have also used them, somtiems with colored ones as turn signals and marker and brake lights along the fork legs and seat stays as well).


I think I need to learn more about downward, road directed lighting - are there commercial off the shelf products intended for this (other than the red "laser" with a bicycle image projected at the road behind the rider - seen, and BOUGHT that one)? If so, what kind of web search might I do - ie; what are they called?
I'm unaware of any *useful* ones for bicycles, though there are quite a few for cars under "downlighting". I think you're better off just getting the waterproof LED strips and using those. They run on 12v, come in rolls, and can be cut in sections of 3 LEDs at a time.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 09, 2017 5:25 pm

amberwolf wrote:That is exactly how this system works, just like a motorcycle or car or scooter's system. ;)
OK, but just soas you know - not ALL cars, that's for sure! ;)
amberwolf wrote:It's actually the SMV (slow moving vehicle) sign, specifically intended and required for motor vehicles travelling 25MPH or less on a road with a higher speed limit.
I think I need to learn more about downward, road directed lighting - are there commercial off the shelf products intended for this (other than the red "laser" with a bicycle image projected at the road behind the rider - seen, and BOUGHT that one)? If so, what kind of web search might I do - ie; what are they called?
amberwolf wrote:I'm unaware of any *useful* ones for bicycles, though there are quite a few for cars under "downlighting". I think you're better off just getting the waterproof LED strips and using those. They run on 12v, come in rolls, and can be cut in sections of 3 LEDs at a time.
Thanks for all these suggestions - I'm sure I'll have improved lighting on my new build!

BTW, here's my new build thread.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=89956

I was noticing how with this thread, when I have looked at it, the images aren't showing up and instead it says, "Not downloaded yet". I've tried closing the page and reopening - no images?! Is something wrong? Do I need to do something further? First time I've noticed this problem before! Do YOU see the images? ...When I right click and say open in new tab, they show up just fine...

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 10, 2017 2:01 am

Nothing fell off on the commute today. ;)

But the makeshift fix / wedging doesn't work very well. If I make a left turn at almost any speed, any angle, the wheel shifts just enough to make the tire start to rub on the frame. I can "jink" the rear to the left just a bit to fix it while riding, so no big deal, but annoying and potentially dangerous (cuz if I had to make a hard left for any reason, the wheel could jam against hte frame hard enough to brake me to a stop or to cause a skid from drag on that side).

I think at this moment I'll have better luck with my lack dexterity/etc if I go with welding the tab onto this motor's stub of an axle, rather than trying to hurry the other motor repair and all the stuff I'll have to do to unlace and relace the spokes and rim off the 5304 and onto the MXUS.

WHile that will still happen eventually, it'll be best if I do it when I can take my time and get it right, like when on a week's time-off from work.

For now I just have to make sure I keep the trike reliable for my work commutes.

RTIII wrote:OK, but just soas you know - not ALL cars, that's for sure! ;)
Oh, I know--I used to use one of the old thermal clickers back on Delta Tripper, off a 1985 Ford LTD (and I used to use a relay based one off a Honda scooter from the 80's, on CrazyBike2). All the modern ones I've helped people fix blinker problems on, though, have been wired this way, with some form of electronic blinker.

IIRC the blinker unit I"m using is an EP-35, like this
http://www.novitatech.com/?q=aftermarke ... shers/ep35

Image

I was noticing how with this thread, when I have looked at it, the images aren't showing up and instead it says, "Not downloaded yet". I've tried closing the page and reopening - no images?! Is something wrong? Do I need to do something further? First time I've noticed this problem before! Do YOU see the images? ...When I right click and say open in new tab, they show up just fine...
They come up in the posts directly for me just fine.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 12, 2017 2:27 am

I figured out why my temporary fix was so very temporary: The wheel acts like a wedge during turns and just very slightly spreads the frame from the sideloading in turns, and since the axle stub is so little, it pops out of the pinching / clamping dropout face and allows the wheel to tilt even more.

Jinking the rear of the trike in the toher direction forces it back, but after a few times of the process the frame is permanently spread enough to keep the stub from seating at all, so the wheel can also tilt the *other* direction, so a right turn will *also* cause the problem.

The right turn is not as serious a problem as a left, because a left pushes the axle stub upwards, where gravity tends to then hold the wheel in position, along with the crown of the road tilting the trike just a bit, enough to force it even harder in that position. A right turn pulls the stub downward, so as soon as the sideload is off the wheel, it tends to quickly return to it's more centered position.

Almost any bump in the road is enough to trigger the same problem as a left turn, though not to the same degree.

I've only got one more day of work commute then a couple days off, so I'll be doing one or another fix for the wheel on Sunday/Monday.



I have several options, including moving the HSR3548 that's actually CrazyBike2's rear wheel over to the right rear wheel on the trike. Previously I'd used it on the left side of the trike, and had put a multispeed freewheel on there to deal with alignment issues with the pedal chain. That freewheel is presently stuck on there as I can't find my removal tool, so I also can't install this wheel onto the trike without either removing that freewheel or modifying the frame on that side to allow for the extra width. If I could remove the freewheel, I could deal with the axle length one way or another.


I also still have the front 9C that used to be on the left side, and at least one other 9C front stator I know works (presently in a 26" wheel on CrazyBike2's front) that could be put into the rotor of this 9C (or one of the others I have around here somewhere)...but I'd then have to unlace and relace the X5304's rim and spokes and relace them onto this. If I have to do that I'd rather just do it once on the MXUS3k (which requires the frame mods too).

I could also jsut put a regular bicycle wheel on there, though that would SEVERELY limit my acceleration, as the MXUS3k 3T on the left side, fed by the wimpy 30A 12FET at only 14s, takes so long to reach even 15mph that it's impractical/unsafe to ride in traffic. (something the 4T would probably fix, as the 5304 is also a 4T motor and has no issues accelerating like that).

But...I could also fix the 4T's stator wiring (halls don't matter with this controller), and swap stators on the MXUS, and it'd get significantly better acceleration from a stop, though not nearly as good as with both motors.



So the options are there...I just have to try one and if it fails move onto the next most practical / quickest to get me back on the road safely, with the least work I have to undo later when I get the time off to do the actual setup I intend to do.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 12, 2017 11:39 am

amberwolf wrote:I figured out why my temporary fix was so very temporary: The wheel acts like a wedge during turns and just very slightly spreads the frame from the sideloading in turns, and since the axle stub is so little, it pops out of the pinching / clamping dropout face and allows the wheel to tilt even more. [...snip...]

I have several options, including [...snip...]

So the options are there...I just have to try one and if it fails move onto the next most practical / quickest to get me back on the road safely, with the least work I have to undo later when I get the time off to do the actual setup I intend to do.
Godspeed, 'wolfie, godspeed! Your fans are here providing moral support!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 12, 2017 2:30 pm

Now just come along on the ride and provide *axle* support, and everything will be just fine. ;)






BTW, a "contraption" idea occured to me that I could take a couple of skate wheels/trucks (or even just the trucks/bearings without the wheels) and clamp them to the fenders in a way that provides rollers for the tires to hit instead of frame.... talk about more work than the actual axle fix, though. :lol:

While typing the above another idea occured to me that the round fender diagonal tubing (the part the tire rubs on) could be cut and bearings slid over them, with hose clamps or something on either side to keep the bearing in the right spot for the tire to ride against. Would have to reweld the tubing after slipping the bearing on....

The ideas for fixes for problems can get far more complicated than the actual problem itself...which is why most of what I think of never gets past that point. :)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by RTIII » Aug 12, 2017 3:34 pm

amberwolf wrote:Now just come along on the ride and provide *axle* support, and everything will be just fine. ;)

BTW, a "contraption" idea occured to me that I could take a couple of skate wheels/trucks (or even just the trucks/bearings without the wheels) and clamp them to the fenders in a way that provides rollers for the tires to hit instead of frame.... talk about more work than the actual axle fix, though. :lol:

While typing the above another idea occured to me that the round fender diagonal tubing (the part the tire rubs on) could be cut and bearings slid over them, with hose clamps or something on either side to keep the bearing in the right spot for the tire to ride against. Would have to reweld the tubing after slipping the bearing on....

The ideas for fixes for problems can get far more complicated than the actual problem itself...which is why most of what I think of never gets past that point. :)
Sounds like you're an up-and-coming MacGyver! ... I see a television series in the making! :lol: Episode 1: MacGyver and the broken axle!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 13, 2017 1:26 am

Except that most of the time I think Macguyver actually knew what he was doing, based on an education of all sorts of sciences (at least according to the script). ;)

I'm a learned-it-by-experience-the-hard-way (mostly by mistakes).

(BTW, on another forum, someone once said this in reference to me in a "story" thread where members were part of an ongoing "story":
"koichi wrote:
"...So then they locked him in a barn with a pile of junk?"

"Yeah; They're in for a world of hurt...."
:lol:

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 13, 2017 9:09 pm

(pics will be added once I cool off and make/eat dinner)

After wasting at least a couple of hours looking for the thick metal remnants I was going to use for the axle-stub replacement tab, I ran across the heavy-duty (but thinner) steel "L" saved from an old office chair, which is just over half as thick as I need (about 5.5-6mm). It's good hard steel, so I quit looking for the other stuff and am using this.

Since the bearing ID is my limiting size factor for width of the tab, I roughly cut two sections about the size of my thumb out of the L bracket, clamped them together, and ground the edges parallel, then grooved them into a "V" so I could fill that with a weld that would penetrate deeply, all around it.
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Then I ground that weld flat and rounded the edges on the long sides so they'd match the curve of the bearing ID so it will have a better fit thru the bearing/cover without being tight at any point.


I ground off the small remnant stub of broken threaded-axle off the face of the axle shoulders, then ground that down into a slot the width of the wire channel, as that happens to be the same width as the metal tab I made above. (wider than the axle flat section).
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I'll have to grind down the rest of the faces of the tab to fit in the narrower slot of the pinching/clamping dropout. Was going to start that but was overheated and hungry; had to quit for a break.

Thought it'd be a short break but got a headache from the heat, so waiting for that to go away before I go make lots of noise grinding metal. ;)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 14, 2017 10:38 pm

The X5304 is gonna need more work than just hte axle; I managed to screw up the windings last night without realizing it.

I went back after the post above to continue with the tab axle, and actually had it pretty well finished, and did a test install. Took some wiggling to get it in there; need to grind more of the face of the tab away for easy insertion on any on-road tire/etc work I might have to do.

But when I finally got it in there, it felt jammed, but was not (wouldn't freely rotate). It had plenty of clearance everywhere.

So I pulled it back out, and found I couldn't rotate it freely with a wrench on the axle flats. :/ Means I shorted phases together somehow.

sigh.

Opened it up and found this:
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Ok, no problem, I'll just have to rewire it. PITA but relatively easy compared to everything else I had to do already to fix the axle problem.

Then I saw this:
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Crap. :/

I don't have a clue how i managed it, but it's obvious I hit it with the angle grinder at some point. I had used tape and cardboard to cover the stator while welding and grinding so I wouldn't get metallic powder/etc in the magnets or airgap. There werent' any holes in the cardboard....

I don't remember taking the cardboard off before putting the grinder away, but I must have, and must have done the damage after that. Oh, well, it's done.

Since none of the windings are actually cut all the way thru, I can probably fix them, but I'll need to gently isolate each wire, and lacquer each one to reinsulate them. If they're too thin I might have to add parallel wire to them.

I might not even worry about it...but even after I cut off the shorted phase wires that were crushed together in the bearing, and tested with some thin wires out the axle just to see if it was ok without the old phase wires, it still cogs from a short in the phases, and the most likely place for that is in the winding-damage area. :(


Since I dont' have all the stuff needed to repair the wires handy ATM, and it's a job I need steady hands for and good magnification, I decided it'd be faster to just modify the frame to hold the HSR3548 wheel off CrazyBike2. Next post is for that, after dinner.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Aug 15, 2017 4:25 am

Since the X5304 isn't quickly repairable, and I need to use the trike for this week's work commute, the *slightly* quicker repair is to use the HSR3548 that is already in the same kind of rim the trike uses on the rear, even though this means modifying the dropouts for the wider axle shoulders. (X5304 is a front motor, HSR3548 is a rear).


So I looked at the problem, held the HSR up to the frame, and figured I could just "flip" the dropout (it was mounted on the inboard side of the outer frame tube, so putting it on the outboard side would move it by about half an inch), and grind the axle to "continue" the flats so the shoulder would be moved toward the motor about an inch and a half, which together would let the motor fit in there just fine.

Grinding the axle was quick and easy.


Flipping the dropout...that was a little more complex, but the simple way was to cut that whole section of tubing off and literally flip it over. Then use some smaller-diameter tubing to fit just inside and "sleeve" it to reinforce it, and then I could weld them together.


To be sure I'd get correct alignment, I installed the wheel in the dropouts, and clamped the inboard axle in place wiht the pinch bolt. Then I set the cut-out dropout/tube onto the outboard axle and lined it up with the frame.

Ooops.

The rim was only maybe 1/8 of an inch from the outboard frame, and touching the upper diagonal fender braces. I didn't even have th tire on there yet, so this ain't gonna work. :(


Nuthin' is ever simple, is it?


At this point I was too hot, too tired, too frustrated, and with not enough time to do the job the way I wanted to, so I ended up with a hack job that will at least work for the next week until I'm on my time-off from work.

Basically I cut the whole front part of the tube off the frame, so I could move it outward half an inch at the front end, and angle it outward at least that much more at it's back end where it was to join the dropout/tube.

Then I cut the rear part of the tube at the point it joins the rear fender frame, bent it outward (from it's rear connection to the rear frame) half an inch at the cut point, and welded in a section of scrap 1/2" tubing between the fender frame's bottom tube and the outboard tube.
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That gives plenty of clearance with the frame and tire, hopefully even if something like the x5304 problem should happen again.
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Of course, doing all this negates having had to grind the axle flat extensions.... :/
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The final problem I ran into was being unable to locate the nuts that I *know* I have for the HSR3548--I only need one for the outboard axle, but it has to have something to secure it, as it isn't clamped like the inboard axle (and I didnt' have time to build a clamp). I found the washers and nordlocks for it, right where they should be, but can't find either nut, and I *know* I had them.... I *think* I used them both on the outboard side of this motor when I used it on the left side temporarily a while back, but...no sign of htem with the motor or any of the stuff used at that time (including the controller used with it).

Nuts for Fusins, Ezee, 9Cs, all are too small, though they have the right thread pitch AFAICT. Won't even go over the axle end.

Nuts for the X5304 are too large and have the wrong thread pitch. They fall onto the axle.

I think the nuts for the MXUS 3K would fit, but I only have one and it's on the leftside motor. If I had another one I can't find it now. There aren't any with the one to be repaired.


So I had to come up with an easy and quick-to-build way to keep the axle from being able to shift vertically.

A torque washer on the inside with it's tab pointed up keeps it from going up into the dropout any further on right turns when the bottom of the tire will be pushed to the right.
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Keeping it from pulling downwards when making left turns and the bottom fo the tire is pushed left.... Has to be somethign I can easily take off on the road for repairs if necessary, but has to securely hold axle in position and has to be very quick to build with something I have right there.

So I reached into the bucket-o'-bolts I had just been digging into, and pulled out a U-bolt with nuts and washers, a section of 1" square tubing, and an old slot cover from a computer case. Voila.

The slot cover gets two holes drilled in it, so it can keep the U-bolt from spreading under tension, and goes under the washers that go under the nuts.

The square tube section is just wider tahn the U-bolt, and using the grinder to notch it, set it up so the U-bolt will fit thru it's ends and hang under it, pulling the axle end upwards.
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Road tested it in the neighborhood and it works fine, even bouncing up and down my driveway curb turning in and out of it at speed.




I did run into one more problem: WheN iw as all done, I hosed off the back end of the trike to wash the grinder dust off the cargo bed and fenders, tenh rode around the ayard, and as i was pulling up to the back door to stop and park it, I got a runaway throttle on the righthand motor, and had to turn the main power siwtch/key off to stop it before I hit the house (on the dirt there, squeezing the front brake levers just skidded the front tire, and I didn't have time to try the ebrake *and then* still have time to cut power, so i just cut power).

Apparently water got into the righthand controller's wiring, into the throttle wires specifically, though I couldn't see or feel any water in there when pulling the throttle wires out of the bundle. When I powered it back on the heartbeat light was flashing a quick double flash, which means throttle high at power on, and measured throttle signal at 2.1v even at zero throttle. But I noticed it was dropping in voltage, so I just waited for a bit and it dried out enough to go back to normal heartbeat flash, and then the throttle/motor worked normally.

Leftside never had a problem. Now ready for work tomorrow.


During all this, Kirin stayed out there with me, while Yogi stayed inside on the kitchen floor under the A/C vent.
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