36v 500w kit or 48v 1200w?

G

greyphantom

10 W
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
71
Location
Kansas
First of all, I have a 36v 500w 20ah Panasonic 18650b battery pack, rated 30 amp. Will be commuting regularly 15 miles county road each way, sometimes quite windy and lots rider input. Bike is 700c Schwinn Crosscut MTB, Chromo frame, great bike and got it cheap :mrgreen: I am planning to get a REAR geared Ebikeling kit on Ebay, as I have read lots of good reviews. I like that the geared kits they offer are fairly light for this light rider. For the next kit, will be trying a DD out.

Approx 5" motor size for both the 36v 500w http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-500W-Geared-Rear-Front-700C-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-ebike-Kit-Ebikeling-/272575329540?var=&hash=item3f76c17504:m:m8JOrjLFl8mg_DUlk5fWj9w

AND the

48v 1200w http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1200W-Geared-Rear-Front-700C-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Kit-Ebikeling-/142396209013?var=&hash=item212779b775:m:m8JOrjLFl8mg_DUlk5fWj9w

controllers are 22amp/26amps respectively, with the 26amp controller being bigger and weighing more. Seems they are the same motor, maybe more copper windings in the 1200w?


Any reason I can't get the bigger kit, run it 1/2 throttle with the 36v 500w battery pack? Then later, could put a big 48v or so battery when I need more speed/ power, little increase in speed and power may make things much easier for me in the long run.

Is it feasible to run the 48v 1200w kit on a 36v 500w battery pack? Pros/cons?
 
The 1200W link is for a 26" wheel. Other than that, you should be able to program either one for the correct battery voltage.
 
wesnewell said:
The 1200W link is for a 26" wheel. Other than that, you should be able to program either one for the correct battery voltage.
Click to expand...


Ok thanks, Wes. Corrected!

So no low voltage cutoff problem for the 26amp controller? What do I need to program it?
 
If you get a kit with the LCD display, it should have a way to select the battery voltage, or the LVC. If the kit has just the controller and no display, then your 36V battery will cut off real quick with the typical 42V LVC of most 48V controllers. Ask the seller to be sure, or get the instructions for the type of display it comes with. Here's a Sw900 LCD.
2. Working Voltage and Mode of Connection
2.1 Working Voltage: DC24V 36V 48V (set by the meter), other voltage could be customized.
The LCD3 display (C12 param) will let you lower the default 40V LVC to 38V. I think the controller sets the default LVC for the display. I don't have either of them. I set my LVC via a variable resistor I installed in my controller.
 
You must ask the seller if the 1000w controller and the LCD are dual voltage 36v/48v. Some are and some aren't.
 
this one is easy, buy the 22 amps, 36v kit. If you pull 26 amps, you'll just stress the battery more each ride, wear it out faster, etc.

You will have plenty of power with the 36v kit, and a lighter wheel. ( about 800w peak) You said you are a light rider, so you don't need the overload capacity of the big DD hub.

If you'd prefer a dd, then there are plenty of 36v DD kits out there, including one from the same company.
 
dogman dan said:
this one is easy, buy the 22 amps, 36v kit. If you pull 26 amps, you'll just stress the battery more each ride, wear it out faster, etc.

You will have plenty of power with the 36v kit, and a lighter wheel. ( about 800w peak) You said you are a light rider, so you don't need the overload capacity of the big DD hub.

If you'd prefer a dd, then there are plenty of 36v DD kits out there, including one from the same company.
Click to expand...


Thanks DM, sounds good. Want to get the DD later and also, your recommendation of 36v sounds better than the 48v DD for my needs. I do not need anything that does 30 mph for the sake of safety, the idea of faster speeds sometimes takes over my brain and I need to be set right :mrgreen: The county road I will be taking has tons of deer, coons, possum; the critters that are likely to jump or run out in front in front of you around here. I even saw a mountain lion on that road one time, yes we have a few but they are rare.

I would rather be safe and you are right about the battery and going with the 22 amp controller, it will all run cooler than the 26amp model and if anything I have learned here is that heat kills.
 
wesnewell said:
If you get a kit with the LCD display, it should have a way to select the battery voltage, or the LVC. If the kit has just the controller and no display, then your 36V battery will cut off real quick with the typical 42V LVC of most 48V controllers. Ask the seller to be sure, or get the instructions for the type of display it comes with. Here's a Sw900 LCD.
2. Working Voltage and Mode of Connection
2.1 Working Voltage: DC24V 36V 48V (set by the meter), other voltage could be customized.
The LCD3 display (C12 param) will let you lower the default 40V LVC to 38V. I think the controller sets the default LVC for the display. I don't have either of them. I set my LVC via a variable resistor I


Thanks for the technical info, this thread answered my questions and then some, probably help others too.
Click to expand...
 
Another consideration is the winds in Kansas. I want something that can handle that and not burn up. I am just fine going a much slower speed on those days, no problem. Surely the geared motor for the 700c would be a slow wind of 201 rpm, so it will be happy spinning slower as opposed to higher rpm motors that best serve smaller wheels. I guess I can feel around all the kit components for heat while I am rollin and adjust things accordingly to keep things running cooler, then I could get more life and service in the long run. Also, the county road is pretty much a slow incline to the next town, it's not bad but for the wind some days/weeks :mrgreen:

That's why my second motor will be the 500w DD hub, probably Ebikeling or Yescom are fine from what I hear. Once it gets going, should have plenty of power and DD's are like a tank :mrgreen: not really a lightweight setup either and my bike is hard no shocks, i can adjust tire pressures, though.

DD will be nice in the Summer when it's 105 out like today :mrgreen:
 
I have ebikeling's 36V 500W geared motor with the 3 level PAS and LED/controller. I run it on a steel frame Trek 800 from 1990. Top speed for me on throttle is 20 mph, and I can hit that just as easy in PAS 3. However, a good ride for me will average 13 mph. The PAS is pretty simple, with limits of about 10-12 mph, 14-16 mph and 18-20 mph for the three levels. According to my wattmeter, the controller cuts power when I pedal above those limits. The LCD may well be different.

While I have the 36V kit, I've switched in a 48V battery. The low voltage cutoff is hardwired to 30V in the controller, so this was just a trial for me. I didn't push it hard, but top speed with throttle was at least 24 mph. In addition, the LED unit is also hardwired to show the battery level for either 48V or 36V, another reason for me not to change voltages. I've peeked inside the controller though, and it seems to use 63V capacitors. The controller promises 22A. Per my ammeter and wattmeter, it does so,

If you're buying a kit, the 48V unit is suggested, especially if you plan to buy a DD motor later and share batteries. I'd get the LCD too,

As for LCD units being able to work on dual voltages, that's true for most KT controllers I've seen. I also bought one (Brainpower was the name) that allowed me to set different voltages on the LCD, but it wouldn't run on 36V until I soldered a jumper on the board marked 36/48. So I wouldn't count on an ebikeling LCD unit being dual voltage unless he confirms it.
 
docw009 said:
I have ebikeling's 36V 500W geared motor with the 3 level PAS and LED/controller. I run it on a steel frame Trek 800 from 1990. Top speed for me on throttle is 20 mph, and I can hit that just as easy in PAS 3. However, a good ride for me will average 13 mph. The PAS is pretty simple, with limits of about 10-12 mph, 14-16 mph and 18-20 mph for the three levels. According to my wattmeter, the controller cuts power when I pedal above those limits. The LCD may well be different.

While I have the 36V kit, I've switched in a 48V battery. The low voltage cutoff is hardwired to 30V in the controller, so this was just a trial for me. I didn't push it hard, but top speed with throttle was at least 24 mph. In addition, the LED unit is also hardwired to show the battery level for either 48V or 36V, another reason for me not to change voltages. I've peeked inside the controller though, and it seems to use 63V capacitors. The controller promises 22A. Per my ammeter and wattmeter, it does so,

If you're buying a kit, the 48V unit is suggested, especially if you plan to buy a DD motor later and share batteries. I'd get the LCD too,

As for LCD units being able to work on dual voltages, that's true for most KT controllers I've seen. I also bought one (Brainpower was the name) that allowed me to set different voltages on the LCD, but it wouldn't run on 36V until I soldered a jumper on the board marked 36/48. So I wouldn't count on an ebikeling LCD unit being dual voltage unless he confirms it.
Click to expand...



Did you ever use the LED display, mainly curious if the PAS will be adequate. I would be happy with no display at all,.
 
A super-low profile setup, small throttle with 24/36/48v speeds, cruise. 8)


There are hardly any EB in my area, so I hardly want to advertise. Throt will be taken to with a black magic marker :mrgreen:
 
I can't speak to geared vs. DD (I have DD) but can provide more info on the SW-900 and KT-LCD3 (aka, S-LCD3) mentioned by wesnewell as I have both.

Yes, you can set the nominal battery voltage (36v or 48v) with the SW-900 as I recall with parameter P03. Oddly, although the KT-LCD3 is more configurable/programmable, you can't set the nominal battery voltage. I think d8veh has wondered about this too and figures the LCD3 must figure it out when you first plug in the battery to the controller. Both displays are cool because you can 'program'/set certain basic things (eg, current, LVC) without having to get one of those programmable controllers that need to be hooked up to your PC. Having the ability to change PAS on the fly with the thumb control is cool and convenient.

I get you want a low profile. I'm the opposite though as I like looking at the real-time data. I even got a Cycle Analyst and modded my KT controller, and have both mounted. (SW-900 to be used on a second bike someday down the road.) Lastly, the SW-900 and LCD3 both use a 5pin JST connector but must be used with their respective controllers.
 
The main thing you need to choose is the weight you want the whole bike to be. I'm just guessing you want it lighter.

But if you want to be able to push hard, at full speed into a 30 mph wind, then you will need the extra power, and weight, of the DD setup. ( same max amps, but more magnets and copper in the big heavy motor will pull harder under loads)

But it does not have to be the 48v 26 amps one,, you could just get the 36v dd kit from the same people.

When I start saying you need the 48v power, is when long steep hills are involved. I live in the rockies, and my commute home climbed 1000 feet of vertical from the valley. And weekend rides tended to go climb real mountains. But I was plenty fast enough for my commute with 20 mph top speeds.

The other reason I would tend to say go for 48v, would be if you were talking about a bike based on a high quality full suspension bike. Then a 30 mph cruise would be much more comfortable, though harder on the battery.

As for burning up the little motor, if you are not an enormous guy, and you keep pedaling, you will pull only about 400w at 20 mph, and 700 or so up the hills. That won't fry the motor. It will get hot quicker on a hot day, but it will reach an equilibrium temperature well below melt down levels. Summer wont fry that motor. what could fry it is overloading it with weight.

Living in the mountains, I can fry those little motors easy,, just hook up the trailer, head up the pass without pedaling, and bingo. But that's 200 pounds of me, and 100 pounds on the trailer, not pedaling up a miles long steep hill. It cant pull 400 pounds up a steep hill for an hour. But you are light, will pedal, and the hills will be short compared to the mountains.
 
Keep in perspective that this is just an inexpensive little 500W motor. It's not going to be a high speed commuter, but it will make for a fun recreational bike.

Here is mine in stealth mode. I take off the Dolphin battery and use a $34 ebay 36V bomb. The bike was one I almost tossed out eight years ago when I wanted more room in the garage.

View attachment 1

I have the 36V 22A controller with the LED as shown here and thumb throttle. I have a busy handlebar. As I noted earlier, the controller only offers 3 PAS levels, each level only powering the bike to a max speed. If I pedal faster than that speed, not much power is used. Allows me to run off the ebay bomb for a 15 mile ride.

My other controllers with torque simulation PAS will burn 8-10 watt-hr/mile at 14 mph. This one is around 5-6 watt-hr/mile in PAS 1, at the same speed, because it makes me do all the work. Which is good because I'm riding for health benefits and fun, not to get anywhere.

console1.JPG
 
Just remember, build what you need. You may not need or want the kind of speed and power that we on ES tend to consider lame and wimpy. (48v 1000w)

For example, my "cruiser" runs 65 volts, has a 30 pound hub motor wheel, and does 35 mph with ease. I mostly ride it 15-18 mph, and pedal. But when needed, its a small motorcycle. Lots of us here on ES ride flyweight motorcycles with pedals.

I needed a lot less, before an illness ruined my health. I put about 10,000 miles commuting on 36v, with max speed of about 23 mph, and cruise of 20 mph. I still cruise that slow or less even now, because I like to look around and enjoy the ride. At 35, you are just scanning for the next chance to die, or just get a flat.
 
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