Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by amberwolf » Dec 12, 2017 1:41 am

LewTwo wrote:
Dec 08, 2017 1:18 pm
(I need to get more back burners).
I keep an old stove between the sheds for that. ;)


This boost converter seems like the first time it's been possible to cheaply use lower voltage batteries to run higher voltage controller systems, with sufficient current/wattage to operate them as intended.

It's been tried over the years with a few different methods, with varying degrees of success, but most of them weren't cheap, or not easy to use.


So, thank you all for doing this work. :)

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 12, 2017 11:02 am

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 12, 2017 1:41 am

It's been tried over the years with a few different methods, with varying degrees of success, but most of them weren't cheap, or not easy to use.

So, thank you all for doing this work. :)
Necessity is the "mother of ... " and all that. I gave this a go mostly because I just didn't want to spend a lot of time or money on batteries. And this seemed worth a try. I'm at about 1500 miles so far on my bike and all seems fine so far.

I've spotted this device on ebay and I'm draw to try it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1500W-50A-DC-B ... SwCGVX5UUj

It has the same claimed 1500 watt output of the Wangdd22 boost converter, but it is boasting 50A ouput. My bet is that if I ran this one, I wouldn't have to current limit my controller to 80%. But the reality is that I don't "need" that extra 20% of current. 1000+ watts to the motor is quite good. In fact, now that I know more about the KT controllers and my needs (I knew nothing of that system when I bought my kit), money would be better spent on a 36/48v sine wave controller that would allow me to bypass the boost converter and enable regen braking. That should extend my range a bit, reduce brake wear and disk brake noise, improve hill climbing a tad, make the bike a tiny bit lighter, and free up a water bottle mount. Yes, it would also reduce my top speed. But the reality is that I have little need to go much faster than 25mph. What works best for me is to shoot for a 20mph average speed. So that's the logical way to go. Nonetheless, I find myself being called to try this 50 amp boost converter. I'm probably going to have to buy it and give it a go.

Note: the 50A refers to the maximum input. Maximum output is 30A. Here are some specs. My Wangdd22 is putting out a bit more than 20 amps at around 50 volts. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a good online review for this device.
1, Product Name: High Power DC boost power module.
2, Model: AP-D5060B
3, the input voltage: DC15V-60V.
4, the input current: 50A maximum.
5, the input power: 1500W maximum.
6, the output voltage: DC15V-80V.
7, the output current: 30A maximum.
8, the conversion efficiency: 93-97% (efficiency and output voltage and current input related).
9, operating temperature: -20 to 50℃.
10, Weight: 1000g
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 12, 2017 2:11 pm

Ive been looking at the options , the 30A 1500w power i like the lack of case I don't. The 50A has a case but its too large for my need

This 1200w version might fit with the 350 mxus / 500w controller. To limit the battery to its 15A con. rating with the 48v bat , 54v to 60v would be 600w steady output.

The 36v batteries are in parallel so can hold 30A steady so I can run them full out limited by the controllers 11A steady 22 max vs the boosters limited Amp output

$28 ca. its worth a try but I suspect its good for about 10A continuous only

1200W 20A DC Converter Boost Step-up Power Supply Module IN 10.5-60V OUT 12-70V

Image
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1200W-20A-DC-C ... SwTA9X5Q9M

DC boost power module AP-D2060C

input voltage: DC10.5V-60V.
input current: 20A maximum.
input power: 1200W maximum.
output voltage: DC12V-70V.
output current: 0-14A maximum.
conversion efficiency: 93-97%
operating temperature: -20 to 50℃.
Weight: 300g

Main feature:

1, high conversion efficiency.
2, the original high-power devices.
3, high-power high-current magnetic sendust.
4, aluminum alloy shell.
5, electronic temperature control with intelligent fan cooling.
6, the input MOS transistor anti-reverse.
7, input undervoltage protection (with LED indicator, adjustable voltage, to protect the battery when the battery power).
8, input over-current protection (with LED indicator).
9, the output adjustable constant voltage constant current even continue.
10, small volume.
11, high reliability and stable operation.
Main use:
1, high-power solar street driving.
2, large mechanical and electrical equipment supply.
3, various LED lighting constant current drive.
4, and a variety of mobile devices powered car.
5, DIY adjustable constant voltage constant current power supply.
6, solar charging power.
7, for a variety of battery charging.
8, electric vehicles into various motors (motors only the largest category with 350W, 24V input above)
The function of the DIP switch
1 Input undervoltage lockout switch ON: LOCK
2 Input over-current lock switch ON:LOCK
3 Output CV / CC switch ON:CV
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 12, 2017 4:24 pm

Putting together a case for the Wagndd22 1500 w 30a booster would be pretty easy if you can handle a hacksaw, epoxy and a drill. I intend to do that at some point.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 12, 2017 4:54 pm

Im thinking the 30A version with its 20A output would tempt me to use it's power and cook the motor .. whereas the 1200w version would act as a power limiter up near the top of its performance capabilities.

48 ~ 60v x 10A = 600w cont. 900w max
36 ~ 54v x 15A =810w cont. 1080w max

Using 10A continuous 15A as max from the booster

2nd issue my controller only pushes 11A continuous
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 12, 2017 6:11 pm

You can set a current limit with the 30A booster. But if the controller limits you to 11A, then I don't see why you'd need to set it. OTOH, if you don't expect a future need for more amperage, then it makes sense to get the lower rated device. It might even make sense to get one of the devices that is rated even lower that has a digital display that makes setup easier. The problem there is that the device is untested/unproven for ebike use.

"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Both that one and the other digital tube I looked at are rated at 85% efficiency which blows as I really like that feature .

I think a person could , should solder a rotary knob ponitenmeter to that adjustment pots location.

The 20A 1200w version looks like its the same electrical design as the 30A version.they actually look identical. ?

Its ;like they added heat sinks to the 20A version and boom its now a 30A booster , although the voltages do differ slightly... so maybe not. Who knows.

I was thinking i could increase its heatsinks and add a 2nd or 3rd fan to the box. I have a few 2.5 inch 12v fans around and a bag of heatsinks.

here is the twin 1200w 20a without a case design , the one in the case is some what different .. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1200W-20A-DC-D ... wEzxYPRZD
Image

Notice it has no fan or top mini heatsink it does have a fan output socket
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by LewTwo » Dec 12, 2017 11:31 pm

I think the other big difference you will find is the copper coils around the iron core.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pm

Yes. 85% efficiency may be too great of a loss to suffer in this application. I hadn't noticed that.
eCue wrote:
Dec 12, 2017 7:19 pm

The 20A 1200w version looks like its the same electrical design as the 30A version.they actually look identical. ?

Its ;like they added heat sinks to the 20A version and boom its now a 30A booster , although the voltages do differ slightly... so maybe not. Who knows.
The 30A version has two coils. I think there's more to it than a different heat sink. I agree that the designs seem similar to myself as a layperson.
eCue wrote:
Dec 12, 2017 7:19 pm
I was thinking i could increase its heatsinks and add a 2nd or 3rd fan to the box. I have a few 2.5 inch 12v fans around and a bag of heatsinks.
I doubt that will work. My 30A unit does not appear to be limited by heat. It seems to self-limit based on current draw. In other words, when I drive it to a certain point that is past its limit, it shuts down automagically for a few seconds. I don't believe this was due to heat because the fan was not coming on and the unit was not even warm. I had to limit the current draw at the motor controller to 80% (using the system's LCD panel) in order to make everything work smoothly and not have power interruptions.

If the 20A really is of a similar design, I'd expect it to behave the same way. My suggestion would be to test without mods and just cool it with an external fan to see if extra cooling has an effect.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by LewTwo » Dec 13, 2017 12:40 pm

wturber wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pm
The 30A version has two coils. I think there's more to it than a different heat sink. I agree that the designs seem similar to myself as a layperson.
I read an article somewhere on the design of boost converters. Never fully understood it but if I remember correctly, the capacity of the converter is directly related to the capacity of the inductor and I believe that coil(s) is the inductor.
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 13, 2017 1:28 pm

LewTwo wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 12:40 pm
wturber wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pm
The 30A version has two coils. I think there's more to it than a different heat sink. I agree that the designs seem similar to myself as a layperson.
I read an article somewhere on the design of boost converters. Never fully understood it but if I remember correctly, the capacity of the converter is directly related to the capacity of the inductor and I believe that coil(s) is the inductor.
I think I'll let some of the folks who know lots more about electronics. like Amberwolf, wade in on this.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 13, 2017 2:26 pm

I will try the 1200w enclosure version its about the perfect size for the 350w motor if it gets hot can add a 2nd and 3rd fan and a few heatsinks to the chips , be nice to get its spec rating.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 13, 2017 3:02 pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 2:26 pm
I will try the 1200w enclosure version its about the perfect size for the 350w motor if it gets hot can add a 2nd and 3rd fan and a few heatsinks to the chips , be nice to get its spec rating.
I'd expect that to work fine for a 350w motor.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by docnjoj » Dec 14, 2017 8:41 am

wturber wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pm
The 30A version has two coils. I think there's more to it than a different heat sink. I agree that the designs seem similar to myself as a layperson.

Hmmmm..............I have 2 of those 30 amp Wangs and neither has two coils. The single coil does have 2 cores stacked but only one set of coil wires. It does have the small additional heat sink on a component.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Dec 14, 2017 9:55 am

docnjoj wrote:
Dec 14, 2017 8:41 am
wturber wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:32 pm
The 30A version has two coils. I think there's more to it than a different heat sink. I agree that the designs seem similar to myself as a layperson.

Hmmmm..............I have 2 of those 30 amp Wangs and neither has two coils. The single coil does have 2 cores stacked but only one set of coil wires. It does have the small additional heat sink on a component.
otherDoc
I didn't look that close. So yes, it could just be two cores. Either way, that implies a different design with what is probably a key component. Looking closer I also note that the uF rating for the capacitors is larger on the 30A unit. So I'm sticking with my guess that there's more to the the 30A rating than better cooling.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 14, 2017 11:14 am

I have a idea , they ran out of parts mid stream of production and ended up slamming out a whack of under rated units !
Or they designed two price points in their units ..I can find a 1200w for $18 ca. compared to $30 for the 1500w
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by docnjoj » Dec 15, 2017 8:09 am

Maybe if we post some pictures it would show the differences. My old foggy memory sort of remembers the 20 amp and 30 amp being somewhat different in structure. However I am still waiting for the weather to get better so I can test the 30 amp one.
otherDoc

Whoops, we already got pictures of both. It does look like the electronics are very similar and the difference is in cooling, but I am no expert in electronic design.
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by troypi » Dec 18, 2017 12:01 pm

Hi,
did some of you guys have thought about how to use battery regeneration braking when using a converter ?

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by LewTwo » Dec 18, 2017 1:42 pm

troypi wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 12:01 pm
Hi,
did some of you guys have thought about how to use battery regeneration braking when using a converter ?
That was covered a bit earlier in the thread. The short version is: If you really need or want regen then getting the proper size/voltage battery is most likely a more practical approach.
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by fechter » Dec 18, 2017 6:13 pm

If you do the math on efficiency and power level, you'll see that quite a bit of power needs to be dissipated. It will get really hot. This will likely be the limiting factor.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by eCue » Dec 25, 2017 3:42 pm

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by LewTwo » Jan 08, 2018 2:55 pm

LewTwo wrote:
Dec 08, 2017 1:18 pm
Well I ordered one as well but I ordered from ebay to be delivered via slow boat from china ... I am in no hurry as I already have enough projects on the back burner (I need to get more back burners).

https://www.ebay.com/itm//172996341616
31 Days via ebay ($24) and a 'slow boat from china". Except for the obligatory huge blob of white caulking compound this actually looks pretty good. All the capacitors are standing up vertical instead of odd ball angles.
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by arthurtuxedo » Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm

Can this be installed in a way that it can be switched on / off or bypassed easily? I have a 250 RPM eZee motor, and love the torque but not the ~21 MPH top speed. I am getting ready to install a 6-FET Lyen controller that can handle 36V @ 30A or up to 72V @ 20A. I'd like to run the battery's natural 36V most of the time and switch on the boost converter for 72V only when I need to merge into the car lane.

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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by wturber » Jan 22, 2018 6:08 pm

arthurtuxedo wrote:
Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm
Can this be installed in a way that it can be switched on / off or bypassed easily? I have a 250 RPM eZee motor, and love the torque but not the ~21 MPH top speed. I am getting ready to install a 6-FET Lyen controller that can handle 36V @ 30A or up to 72V @ 20A. I'd like to run the battery's natural 36V most of the time and switch on the boost converter for 72V only when I need to merge into the car lane.
That's beyond my knowledge level. But I'd guess that you'd need to switch some large current loads and that would require some large solenoids or beefy switches. If you wanted to hack the booster, you might be able to make a simple switch that would give the proper resistor values in place of the existing pot so that you could switch the controller back and from from 36v (or more likely 42v) to 72v.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: Using the Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter on an ebike

Post by amberwolf » Jan 22, 2018 9:15 pm

Basically you' just need a DP3T or DPDT-center-off switch that is capable of handling the maximum DC Amps you'll pull from the battery into the controller (or converter).

The common contact pair of teh switch goes to the controller input.

One of the outside pair goes to the battery.

The other outside pair goes to the converter's output.

The center pair (of the 3T version) doesn't get connected. This, ro the center-off, ensures there's no chance of accidentally shorting across the converter.

The converter's input is always wired to the battery, or you can put an on/off switch on it if you like. I expect it doesn't take significant power at idle if there's no load.

Almost certainly you'll have to let off throttle completely to do the switchover, because the controller is going to have to be powercycled to switch modes. When it comes back on, if the throttle is not zero, it'll probably fault and lock it out as "broken", until you let it go to zero (and possibly powercycle the controller again if it doesnt' auto-reset the error).

If you try to switch while under power, you risk arcing the switch contacts, which might weld them together or burn them so they dont' make contact anymore. Or the controller may shutdown from lack of power in the instant during switchover, and come up in an error mode (like the above throttle issue) and require powercycling to fix.

So using it to merge lanes is probably not safe to do, as you'll need ot let of throttle, switch voltage modes, possibly wait a second for the controller to reset, then push throttle back up again. That's a lot of stuff to do and time to wait while you're watching traffic that's all moving around you, especially if you're doing a maneuver that requires the speed to get out of the way of a faster vehicle--if for some reason it doesn't work or you lose power completely you could get hit.


You'd probably be better off just using the controller in high voltage mode all the time, and just have a voltage divider on teh throttle's output to cut it in half most of the time, and an override button that shorts across the divider's output to restore full output for your "passing/merging" mode.

Or just learn how to be judicious with the throttle at the full voltage. ;)


I once wanted to have just cruising (20mph) power available all the time, with just a boost button or something to get me more power when I needed to accelerate quickly, etc. But I've found it's better (for me) to just have the whole power always available, and just learned to control myself with it, so I'm only at 20MPH max, but still just hit full (or more than usual) throttle as needed from a stop to get full acceleration, or climb a slope or pull heavy cargo, or ride against the wind, etc.

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