Any difference if I upgrade the controller to a higher amp?

Grider

100 mW
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
36
1) I currently have a 48v 35a ebikeling controller. It hits 36 mph. Was wondering if I keep it at 48v, but upgrade the controller to a higher amp rating like 45a or 50a, will I see some difference at max mph?

2) Also, does anybody know if that controller is a square wave or sine wave? thanks
 
If you don't have a wattmeter or other way to see what the current you're actually drawing now is, it's hard to say if it would help or not. If you're not already at the limit, increasing it won't change it.


You can go to the http://ebikes.ca/simulator and try out some variations to see what you should get with various motors/controllers at the same battery voltage and different current limits. That will give you some idea of what might happen under different conditions, without measuring what you're using now.
 
My guess is that with 35 amps, you currently are hitting your motors max rpm and won't see any big increase in top speed, if any. Betcha when you max out at 36 mph, your motor is drawing about 30 amps, not 35. (1500w is usually good for about 35 mph)
To get a new motor max rpm, increase voltage to 72v. 72v 40 amps is usually good to get into the 40 mph club, with a cheap ass DD hubmotor.
 
Grider said:
Was wondering if I keep it at 48v, but upgrade the controller to a higher amp rating like 45a or 50a, will I see some difference at max mph?
As mentioned above, the simulator will answer the question with 99% certainly.
That said, as a rule of thumb, assuming the battery can deliver the current, increasing the controller amps will not affect a higher top speed on the flat, but will increase acceleration and the achievable top speed on a hill.

This is because the controller current limit (typically) only comes into play when the bike is under high load (accelerating, hill-climbing).

On the flat (lighter load) speed is primarily limited by battery voltage. So - jack up the controller current limit and the bike will not be as artificially limited in the 'interesting' high load situations, but the top end isn't going to change at all (typically). Unfortunately, the higher current when climbing hills also means the motor will be producing more heat and will overheat sooner -- so there's no free lunch there...
 
Is there anyway possible I can hit 40 mph on a flat without pedaling, maybe by swapping out to a better controller and without changing my other equipment? I'm keeping it a 48v system for now (battery is 52v).

There's got to be a way without raising the voltage.
 
Grider said:
Is there anyway possible I can hit 40 mph on a flat without pedaling, maybe by swapping out to a better controller and without changing my other equipment? I'm keeping it a 48v system for now (battery is 52v).

There's got to be a way without raising the voltage.

It depends on what is limiting your top speed - doesn't it?

Assuming that you are voltage limited and not changing your motor, your options are to change your gearing (mid-drives) or driven wheel size. And if you do that, you might find that you need to also increase amperage. The Grin Technologies Motor Simulator is good aid in helping you figure out what your situation is and from there, what your options are.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
 
Go to the simulator and try it out, then you will see what we're talking about, and the limitations involved.

Otherwise you'd have to test it by experiment on the actual bike and terrain, with a wattmeter to see where your limit is, then fix that limit.

We can't tell you anything better until you do that.
 
Four paths to more speed:

1) Increase voltage.

2) Swap the motor for a faster wind.

3) Swap the controller for one that features field weakening.

4) Increase your gearing (larger wheel size with a hub motor).

All four methods will increase the load put on the rest of your system, so may require further upgrades anyway.
 
danielrlee said:
3) Swap the controller for one that features field weakening.


Could you please post some links to a few 48V controllers (sold on ebay or elsewhere) that features field weakining? I searched and cannot find any.
 
Grider said:
danielrlee said:
3) Swap the controller for one that features field weakening.


Could you please post some links to a few 48V controllers (sold on ebay or elsewhere) that features field weakining? I searched and cannot find any.

Typed "field weakening e-bike controller" into Google and got this:

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/phaserunner.html
 
Grider said:
Is there anyway possible I can hit 40 mph on a flat without pedaling, maybe by swapping out to a better controller and without changing my other equipment? I'm keeping it a 48v system for now (battery is 52v).

There's got to be a way without raising the voltage.
Not really.

For a mountain bike with a 235 lb bike + rider you need to deliver 2250W to the road. For an 85% efficient drive system you need to pump in about 2250W/0.85 = 2700W. The simulator can tell you this easily (see the Load Line) and the figures are independent of the motor, controller, and battery.

This means you basically need a big ass 3000W motor to go 40mph. There is no way your motor can deliver the required power and shed the required heat to run continuously at 40mph regardless of the battery or controller. Moreover, to get this kind of power at 48V your battery needs to be able to deliver 2700W/48V = 56A continuously. With voltage sag this is probably more like 60A. This has nothing to do with the type of controller or motor - but you will need a controller that can handle it.

So, you will need to swap out the motor, controller, and perhaps the battery to get in the game just based on the simple physics of the situation. The simulator will you help make these component selections but there is no single magic part you can add that is going to make a 1000W or 1500W bike kit into a 3000W kit.
 
wturber said:
Typed "field weakening e-bike controller" into Google and got this:

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/phaserunner.html

Need a more economical alternative to the phaserunner that has the field weakening option or other means that will allow me to spin the hub faster than 100% normal while retaining the 48v system.
 
The best way to improve your top speed is to improve you and your bike's aerodynamics. Giving less to the wind will get the motor closer to it's no load speed. The resulting higher speed and lower current levels is a one-two punch toward greater overall efficiency...more range, cooler motor (another boost to efficiency), and less stress on the whole system.

If that's out of the question, then the majority of programmable controllers give you the ability to set greater than 100% as one of the 3-speed settings. I've never used it since my ebikes are more than fast enough, and using that option as well as field weakening noted above increase system stress resulting in decreased efficiency.

An even worse way to a greater top end is using a larger wheel diameter.

If improving aero doesn't get you where you want, the next best way to improve speed is to combine an increase in pack voltage with a lesser % decrease in wheel diameter. Then you get a system running at lower stress with greater acceleration and efficiency, so a more fun to ride bike.
 
Try controller programming, It WILL improve your time to top speed, and maybe add a few mph or so.

Tucking can add 5 mph. I just assume that if you are doing 40 mph in traffic, looking ahead could be good. :wink:

There is a controller mod called a shunt solder. Look it up, it increases the max amps of a controller. Not too much solder, or you blow your controller. Bear in mind, I bet your battery is already crying for mercy with the 35 amps. So 50 amps could definitely cause you to need to buy a new 72v. :D More amps can still add a few mph, but not so likely a true 40 mph club bike. 40 mph average both directions of a run, just like they do speed at Bonneville. A 40 mph club bike can hit 45 with a tiny tailwind, and tiny downhill grade.


The cheapest, easiest way to get into the 40 mph club with your existing wheel is still a new 72v battery, and the 72v 40 amps controller. It might be possible to add 24v, or not. Again, depends on how close you are now to killing your battery in a month. 8) Those of us who wanted a 40+ amps capable battery cheapest, have chosen the RC lipo batteries. Yes, they are dangerous, and mistakes can fry your hand, burn your house down, or merely result in you ruined a sub pack on day one by assembling the whole pack wrong. But they handle high c rates, on the cheap. 72v 10 ah of lipo can get you about 40 min of 40 mph. With your motor, carrying more is stupid, because 50 min of 40 mph non stop melts the motor.

Once you have that 72v 40 amps, then do consider the rest of Johns advice. It really does make a huge difference to go to a 20 inch wheel and a faster motor wind. His way the motor stays cooler. When you do buy a new motor, just get a bigger one in a small wheel, that can go hours at 40 mph without melting.
 
Grider said:
Is there anyway possible I can hit 40 mph on a flat without pedaling, maybe by swapping out to a better controller and without changing my other equipment? I'm keeping it a 48v system for now (battery is 52v).

There's got to be a way without raising the voltage.
Lipo booster packs too increase voltage...LOL
 
You say you "can hit 36mph' and want to go 40mph". Does that mean in a tuck and in perfect conditions the bike will get to 36mph flat out? Do you want to "hit 40mph" the same way or actually have a 40mph bike that will do 40mph for extended periods without riding like a pretzel or having the motor melt? Briefly achieving 40mph in a sprint in perfect conditions is a whole different thing from the perspective of component selection -- although the power requirements are the same as sustained speed.

There's certainly no shortage of things you can try to boost your top speed, but here's some results from the simulator to put things in perspective.

Here's a plot showing a MTB in normal riding position for a 235lb load as mentioned above. This shows the power you need to get to the road - not the power your battery must supply (divide the watts shown here by about 0.80 or 0.85 overall system efficiency for that). For example, you need to get an extra 700W to the road to increase speed from 35mph to 40mph (about 700W/0.85 = 835W of extra battery power). Or looking at it a different way, from 35mph you need to add an extra 700W/1530W = 45% power to make it to 40mph -- half again as much to go 5mph faster as it took to get to 35 in the first place. That's the shocker...

MTB_235load_0pctGrade.png
That plot shows the basic problem of aero drag pretty graphically - you need huge power increments to go just a few miles an hour faster once you get past 25mph or so.

To show the effects of aero drag comparatively, here's the identical setup on a MTB in a tuck position. Here you can see the dramatic reduction in required power to achieve the same speeds as in the first plot (e.g. only 1600W instead of 2250W to hit 40mph). If you "are hitting 36mph" in a tuck, this is the plot that shows the power you are delivering to the road - not the first plot. However, at these speeds we see that you still need to add about 500W/1100W = 45% more power to get to 40mph from 35mph.

MTB-tuck_235load_0pctGrade.png

As was posted above, without instrumentation (wattmeter/ammeter) or other specifics we don't really know if the motor Kv (wind) or controller is limiting your speed, but the whole power thing is quite likely if your components are anywhere near matched. ( Spending a few bucks to measure what's going on and evaluate improvements is a good plan.)

Again, these simple plots are just the standard "bike computer" part of the simulator (all physics - no simulation) and have nothing to do with the particulars of the motor, wheel size, controller, or battery - these show the very best you can ever achieve with an optimal selection of components. If your battery can deliver the necessary power, you can look at changing/selecting parts to get closer to these performance points but you can never use less power than shown here (physics can be really annoying...).

So - I'm not trying to discourage your efforts to improve the bike which is always a fun thing to do, but you may need to temper your expectations so that your efforts can actually meet with success. You can do things to squeeze out a bit more speed, get better acceleration, climb hills a little better, or get a more comfortable posture but big steps into the sustained high speed club require that you ante up some bucks for better parts and perhaps make motor/wheel mods as well.
 
Hi I'm quite new on this forum and i just registered my account on this forum and i would like to share my new experience. I ordered some "cheap 1500w" ebike kit and since i bought It, i had so many problems and i made a lot research and i would like to share my experience. With my mixed combination of ebike parts i succeeded to achieve my ebike to go 50miles/h on a little bit slightly steep hill( around 5-10°) or on flat surface 45miles/h
The full story it's a little bit complicated but after 2 months stuck in garage
With lift up my rear wheel i uploaded today my video which to show you max speed without any weight to 55miles.
To be honest It wasn't my point to make it faster, I just wanted to fix my hub motor which it suffered from overheating after 5days riding since i bought my kit.
https://youtu.be/TpaHdes1Sz8
 
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