ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION DELTA /WYE and SERIE/PAPALLEL stator

[steveo]

Steveo,

when i first saw the pictures, looking at the stator and before reading the text i thought you had done another 9C motor. this kind of stamped steel stator must have a lot to do with why these motors are so much lighter.

so how does it run?

rick

i did not do a road test, i did bench test it ( no load)

66v

star mode, it pulls 1-2 amps at WOT

delta mode, it pulls 7-8 amps WOT

speed is pertty good, i will be lacing it in a 20" wheel & running 88.8v turnigy lipo on it

-steveo

[dan-graham]

Can someone confirm if it is best to have the high speed or high torque Crystalyte motor to do the star delta mod? I am thinking in my head it would be best to have the high torque motor and then use the star delta switch when you want the high speed? Has anyone done this on the HT-R35/25 Crystalyte? Thanks,

[itselectric]

Can someone confirm if it is best to have the high speed or high torque Crystalyte motor to do the star delta mod? I am thinking in my head it would be best to have the high torque motor and then use the star delta switch when you want the high speed? Has anyone done this on the HT-R35/25 Crystalyte? Thanks,

Dan:

If you read Steveo posting on page 42. That is exactly what he did. He may be the first ES member that did with delta/Wye with Crystalyte HS3540 motor.

[scoot-on]

My first post to this forum!

Maybe this relay will work for the less extreme applications.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Coil-Voltage-DC- ... 3cbc74ca82

Coil Voltage DC 24V 3PDT Power Relay 40A w Socket Base

Model No. JQX-38F

Price: US $19.86

cheers!

Shane

[ian.mich]

ive been searching the net but cant find a single picture of what colours of motor wires go to eachother, and how to connect to the controller. I understand how the 3pdt allows switching but can't figure which colours go to what.

[megacycle]

Anyone interested in designing a custom relay/switch for star/delta got a good idea, just need to nut it out for ideas on control and packaging it.

[megacycle]

Edit better have a photo

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I had an idea to install a custom leaf switch/relay, using busbar as switching is not done under load.
Only needs to be rated for continuous and a plain switch with no contact faces like this could carry 100A.
I think it more ideal than most relay designs, as switching is in the opposite plane to rotation, profile is low so room for its switching mech & packaging, it probably would have a good thermal rating compared to most other relays noone seems to be allowing for high temp deratings.
It could probably be pretty simple in operation so very reliable.

Any ideas.

[megacycle]

Its took a while to get this done, a few hours of thinking and soldering, in amongst weeks of an average time poor lifestyle

Its mainly the concept which i think is extremely simple in itself.
There are 2x2 sets of busbar style contacts back to back on a centralised insulating rocker area.
Ive shown 2x2 for simplicity the fourth contact is for signalling and/or control purposes and could be in essence any number of small switching points for ancillary requirements.
The setup could be a manual switch or made as a relay.

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20121113_101245.jpg (230.69 KiB) Viewed 530 times

With a manual switch, suitable thermoplastic enclosure would have to be designed.
The phase connection points dont have to be welded/soldered bar, they could be extensions of the busbar coming out sideways of the mid section or braids, connected pretty much anywhere on the bars, for greater long term flexibility of the connections.
The assembly could be made spring loaded to the star position, for start and held over to delta position with suitable strong permanent magnet/s, when switched.
A membrane type clear cover could waterproof the finished external moving part of the switch.

For a relay switch, springs and powerful permanent magnets both sides and opposing series wired electromagnet coils could create a strong latching bi state relay, pulsed by say a 12V or more supply.

Besides this star/delta scheme, Ive noticed the ev world appears to have a distinct lack of purpose made, heavy duty electrical switching hardware for areas like battery series/ parallel charge/run schemes and individual battery isolation etc.

I hope to get time to finish some further research, get some drawings together and knock out some prototypes on a laser cutter and 3D printer.

[Lu.Sochr]

Hello to all,

I was reading this thread very long time and finally I decided to do delta x wye mod as well. But I have a problem, I do not know if that was coincidence or I did something wrong, but after short ride, when everything works fine I switched from delta back to wye during regen in very slow speed and suddenly my controller burned up. I was using magic controller from golden motor together with HBS golden motor. Controller was set to 30A and voltage is 36V.

I measured resistance between each phase on controller and there was no resistance at all, so It looks that all phases are shorted together, which seem that FETs are all burned. I was using 3x SPDT automotive relay rated at 40A and their power poles are connected in series in order to be able to switch them directly by battery voltage (36V/3 = 12V which is voltage relays are rated for).

I suspect that regen caused that fault somehow, is that possible? I will turn my regen off for next attempt with my controller, because I do not want to burn it again.

Thanks in advance for your ideas what could cause that fault.

Lubos

[ian.mich]

Hello to all,

I was reading this thread very long time and finally I decided to do delta x wye mod as well. But I have a problem, I do not know if that was coincidence or I did something wrong, but after short ride, when everything works fine I switched from delta back to wye during regen in very slow speed and suddenly my controller burned up. I was using magic controller from golden motor together with HBS golden motor. Controller was set to 30A and voltage is 36V.

I measured resistance between each phase on controller and there was no resistance at all, so It looks that all phases are shorted together, which seem that FETs are all burned. I was using 3x SPDT automotive relay rated at 40A and their power poles are connected in series in order to be able to switch them directly by battery voltage (36V/3 = 12V which is voltage relays are rated for).

I suspect that regen caused that fault somehow, is that possible? I will turn my regen off for next attempt with my controller, because I do not want to burn it again.

Thanks in advance for your ideas what could cause that fault.

Lubos

If you switch down from delta to wye when you are going above the RPMs that wye is capable of, the controller will burn. if you do not take your hand off the throttle while switching down, the relay will fry, which i'd imagine could fry the controller. If you hold regen and switch between delta to wye, it sounds like it would fry the controller, but someone else will chime in with the answer.

[Lu.Sochr]

If you switch down from delta to wye when you are going above the RPMs that wye is capable of, the controller will burn. if you do not take your hand off the throttle while switching down, the relay will fry, which i'd imagine could fry the controller. If you hold regen and switch between delta to wye, it sounds like it would fry the controller, but someone else will chime in with the answer.

Thanks very much for your reply. I do believe that fault was caused by switching from delta to wye during regen. Even it was during very low speed (about 10km/h), it seems that relays did not switch in exact same time. I will try this again without regen, because it is to easy to forgot release brake lever before switching from delta to wye (not as problem with throttle), I also do believe that cheap 6 FET magic controller is not much reliable with regen anyway so...

[megacycle]

Would it be an regen over-voltage, when your in delta current regen would be high and wye regen voltage high, if the revs are high due to gunning it in delta, then switching wye and hitting regen, pop!!

[Doctorbass]

Would it be an regen over-voltage, when your in delta current regen would be high and wye regen voltage high, if the revs are high due to gunning it in delta, then switching wye and hitting regen, pop!!

Exactly... it have been discussed few pages back

and no real need of regen! to make it happen .. just go wot at delta, then switch back to WYE.. and BANG !.. no more controller working!

Doc

[megacycle]

Thanks doc, good to know, have to have a look, guessing over bemf could fry it too then.

[Lu.Sochr]

I was aware that you can't go WOT in delta and then switch back to wye, it would certainly fry controller instantly. As I was saying I was riding like 10km/h when it happend.

Is it possible that this was only coincidence not related to delta x wye switching or regen braking? I was thinking, last year my controller did get wet sometimes during rainy rides. Maybe water got into the controller and sit there all winter and causing slow oxidation of all contacts in cotroller, then I take it for it's first ride this year and suddenly PUF! Oxidised contact in controller broke under full current condition. (just thinkink loud):-)

[megacycle]

Sorry buddy missed the switching at low speed.

Have you tested the relays, contacts and coils?

[Lu.Sochr]

Have you tested the relays, contacts and coils?

I suppose you are talking about relays, contacts and coils within the motor right? There seems to be everything allright, because when I connected my second controller from other bike (also magic controller) it is working fine, although I didn't try it to ride outside, it was more like a bench test...

[megacycle]

Yeh definetly regen activating the controller during switching ,that's why i'm attempting a purpose made relay, with extra contacts to engineer those kind of events out, havnt got time to poop lately though with kiddies and paid work, oh well.