How do I Reduce 36 Volts to 6v to Power Headlight?

Beagle123 · May 20, 2007

This should be easy, but I've been struggling with this:

I've converted a moped to run on 36 volts, but the original electrical system is run on 6 volts. I need to learn how to convert down to 6v to run the tail lights and headlight.

What is the right component? Please indicate where I can buy the product.

knightmb · May 20, 2007

Well basically a DC to DC converter. One that is adjustable might be better since I don't know of any that are a straight 36 v to 6 v converter. I'm sure others will chime in though of some locations to find them, but at least you know what exact you are looking for (DC to DC converter)

Beagle123 · May 20, 2007

Thanks, I'm searching the internet right now. Also, I beleive that they sell replcaement lightbulbs that would fit the sockets that are 12v. I bet it would be better to have nice new 12v bulbs.

I noticed that there are voltage regulators that output a constant voltage, but they don't seem to output too many amps.

eP · May 20, 2007

Maybe the better way is to change the original 6V system for 36V new one ?

eP · May 20, 2007

Beagle123 said:
Thanks, I'm searching the internet right now. Also, I beleive that they sell replcaement lightbulbs that would fit the sockets that are 12v. I bet it would be better to have nice new 12v bulbs.

I noticed that there are voltage regulators that output a constant voltage, but they don't seem to output too many amps.

If you need too many amps now, maybe you should consider more efficient power LEDs light ?

Beagle123 · May 20, 2007

I would love to replace the bulbs with 36 volt bulbs, but I don't know that I could find ones that fit into the sockets. I found this one:

<A Href="http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=107120">Bulb link</a>

It looks like it might fit, but I'd need the taillight to be 36v too. I'll keep looking.

I'd love to use led bulbs too. What are the chances it will fit an old 1977 headlight? I guess I could try to rig it.

eP · May 20, 2007

Beagle123 said:
I'd love to use led bulbs too. What are the chances it will fit an old 1977 headlight? I guess I could try to rig it.

You would like to use PCB and leds matrix instead the led bulb. But this way you need to soldering.

commanda · May 21, 2007

The standard operating procedure is to upgrade your lamps to 12 volt, then buy a dc-dc converter; input to match your battery voltage, output 12 volts. Any online source for ev parts should be able to supply the magic black box.
If you were in Australia, I'd recommend Brett White;
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm

36 - 12 at 10 amps $30 AUS.

Amanda

eP · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
The standard operating procedure is to upgrade your lamps to 12 volt, then buy a dc-dc converter; input to match your battery voltage, output 12 volts. Any online source for ev parts should be able to supply the magic black box.
If you were in Australia, I'd recommend Brett White;
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm

36 - 12 at 10 amps $30 AUS.

Amanda

For almost the same money he can buy 9 4V white leds and get the same lumens volume for a half the power.

Lowell · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
The standard operating procedure is to upgrade your lamps to 12 volt, then buy a dc-dc converter; input to match your battery voltage, output 12 volts. Any online source for ev parts should be able to supply the magic black box.
If you were in Australia, I'd recommend Brett White;
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm

36 - 12 at 10 amps $30 AUS.

Amanda

This would be the right way to do the job. If one really needs LEDs, drop in automotive LED bulbs can be used.

commanda · May 21, 2007

For almost the same money he can buy 9 4V white leds and get the same lumens volume for a half the power.

So thats 9 x 4 volt white leds for the tail light, ditto for the brake light, ditto for the front parker, front left blinker, front right blinker, rear left blinker, rear right blinker, dasboard lights.......................

I stand by my recommendation.

Amanda

Lowell · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
For almost the same money he can buy 9 4V white leds and get the same lumens volume for a half the power.

Click to expand...

So thats 9 x 4 volt white leds for the tail light, ditto for the brake light, ditto for the front parker, front left blinker, front right blinker, rear left blinker, rear right blinker, dasboard lights.......................

I stand by my recommendation.

Amanda

That's called thinking outside the common sense box. :lol:

eP · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
For almost the same money he can buy 9 4V white leds and get the same lumens volume for a half the power.

Click to expand...

So thats 9 x 4 volt white leds for the tail light, ditto for the brake light, ditto for the front parker, front left blinker, front right blinker, rear left blinker, rear right blinker, dasboard lights.......................

I stand by my recommendation.

Amanda

No, no.

I need to learn how to convert down to 6v to run the tail lights and headlight.

So 6 leds for headlight - 3 for tail in series.

If he have blinkers, so he can switch them parallel to the tail lights.
All should work fine :wink:
don't worry. And he will be happy.

commanda · May 21, 2007

If he have blinkers, so he can switch them parallel to the tail lights.

So tell me, how you gonna run a blinker can off 36 volts??? The whole point of blinkers is they go blink...blink...blink
To do this, you need a blinker can. 12 volt blinker can is available at any automotive parts place.

Amanda

eP · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
If he have blinkers, so he can switch them parallel to the tail lights.

Click to expand...

So tell me, how you gonna run a blinker can off 36 volts??? The whole point of blinkers is they go blink...blink...blink
To do this, you need a blinker can. 12 volt blinker can is available at any automotive parts place.

Amanda

If you switch them parallel to the tail lights (3*4v=12V), so you need 12V blinkers not the 36V.

Piotrek

commanda · May 21, 2007

If you switch them parallel to the tail lights (3*4v=12V), so you need 12V blinkers not the 36V.

Do you understand Thevenin's or Norton's theorem?
Ever even heard of them?

Didn't think so.

Ever seen brake lights flash out of sync with the blinkers?

Amanda
(A little knowledge is such a dangerous thing.)

eP · May 21, 2007

commanda said:
If you switch them parallel to the tail lights (3*4v=12V), so you need 12V blinkers not the 36V.

Click to expand...

Do you understand Thevenin's or Norton's theorem?
Ever even heard of them?

Didn't think so.

Yes i do Madam.

commanda said:
Ever seen brake lights flash out of sync with the blinkers?

Amanda
(A little knowledge is such a dangerous thing.)

Do you know that:

Code:

Because the voltage versus current characteristics of an LED are much like any diode (that is, current approximately an exponential function of voltage), a small voltage change results in a huge change in current.

I don't think so.

The blinkers current can be much smaller than tail current or headlight.

fechter · May 21, 2007

They make 12v blinkers for LED lights that are not current sensitive.

I would go with the 12 bulbs and a dc-dc converter. 12v bulbs are easy to find and should fit right in the existing sockets. Turn signals aren't on enough to worry about power consumption. A headlight is another story, but LEDs that equal a 25w moped headlight are going to be expensive.

eP · May 21, 2007

fechter said:
I would go with the 12 bulbs and a dc-dc converter. 12v bulbs are easy to find and should fit right in the existing sockets.

I like the future solutions.

fechter said:
Turn signals aren't on enough to worry about power consumption. A headlight is another story, but LEDs that equal a 25w moped headlight are going to be expensive.

25W @12 lm/W (bulb) =300lm
the same you can get from 6 leds 1W @50lm/W
and this way you save 18W.

Battery current is also expensive 1$/kWh ($0.85 for batteries $0.15 for current).

So to save $36 (for 6leds $6 a piece) you need 2000h at 18W power savings.
So you can save it at 5-10 years (depend on how many hours you use it per year). I think it is fair period of time.
It will also possible to get efficient power leds much cheaper as they will be common as a source to backlight for LCD.

fechter · May 21, 2007

I like LEDs too, that's why I'm using them on my scooter.

12v LED lamp assemblies that fit in standard automotive sockets are readily available these days, but they're still 12v, so would require a dc-dc. The LEDs could be arranged to run on 36, but that would take a lot more work.

This place has some nice ones:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/

Beagle123 · May 21, 2007

Thank you everyone for the heated discussion. You've helped me a lot.

Here's my current plan: I ordered 36v bulbs for the headlight and taillight. I don't plan to use blinkers (they just helps people run you over).

If by some miracle it fits my socket, I will be very happy.

I think the LED idea is brilliant. I may try it for the taillight if these bulbs aren't a simple solution.

I looked for a small dc-dc converter and couldn't find one except for BRett White who's across the Pacific ocean. But it seems like having the whole thing being 36v makes sense anyway.

I'll get back to you with pics of what happens.

Thanks again

commanda · May 22, 2007

Here's my current plan: I ordered 36v bulbs for the headlight and taillight.

Consider taking out an insurance policy against Murphy's Law. Order 2 sets.
Actually, order 3 sets, and stash the 2 spare sets in separate locations.
If you've only got one spare set, you'll never find it when you need it. With 2 spare sets, you double your chances of being able to find at least one.

Amanda

Beagle123 · May 26, 2007

Update:

I ordered a 36v headlight from tncscooters.com. It was 10 Watts. If fit great, and worked but was a tiny bit dim at 10 watts, but I was very happy. Then it blew out, the first time I rode it. I guess the circuit has some voltage spikes or someting. I don't know.

Now I'm going to try a led bulb like this:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=OTHER

I bought that 24v led. I beleive it will work on a 36v system if I just put a small resistor in series with it. I learned that if you string a bunch of LEDs together, they will provide a bunch of resistance so you can run them at higher voltages.

For my taillight:

I went to fry's electronics and bought a pack of 20 small leds (red). I used the top of a bin of cool whip to cut out a piece of white plastic to fit into my taillight holder. I soldered the row of leds on the piece. Then I added a 100 ohm resistor. It worked great.

I think I'm going to order leds to fit the sockets from the above website, just to have a neater solution. I realize that the bulb size is standard, so they should fit.

Thanks fetcher, and Ep. By the way, I've been reading some of Eps posts and I guarantee that he understandss a lot of electrical theorems.

And commanda you were right--I should have ordered more bulbs!

How do I Reduce 36 Volts to 6v to Power Headlight?

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