Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

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Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Jul 26, 2015 2:42 am

^^^

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Tumbleweeds.

;)

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by appleman6161 » Oct 09, 2015 2:54 am

I'm a Phoenix native with an electric longboard build. Currently attending school in Los Angeles but home over Christmas break. Would enjoy gathering a group!

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by Evoforce » Oct 20, 2015 2:51 am

creeeek creeeek.....
"Energy is all consuming and it is never ending. It just changes form as it morphs through time and space... " Evoforce
                                                                                   Several 5403 motors, Phoenix Racer(5403) crystalyte suspension mtn bike LiFepo4 72/20.  (409) crystalyte 48 volt hardtail.   Phoenix Cruiser(5304)  LiFePo4 48/20.  First electric bike a 2009 XB 502-700 style, 36/20 sla scooter bike.  2) 2011 Nissan Leaf's in the mix.  Tesla Model S.  And solar!

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Apr 23, 2017 10:43 pm

From posts on the forum I know there's more of us around here; so bumping this thread.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Aug 30, 2017 7:32 pm

Yep. Working my way through my first build right now. Years ago I used to commute (all human power) from around 35th Ave and Northern to Central and Thomas. I'd do that 2-3 times a week year round. Career changes forced a stop to bike commuting. Too many places to go in a day. Years later, I moved to Fountain Hills and the distances (and the hills) make bike commuting a problem. Training and recreational riding is great in that area though.

So, enter the e-bike. Hopefully it will "flatten" the hills a bit and extend my range. These days my commute will be closer to 15-16 miles.

Bought a used mountain bike, 1000W 48v ebay hub motor and have started tinkering. I'm trying to stay within a fairly tight budget, which has meant getting creative with batteries. That has slowed me down a bit as I learn more about what's involved. Also, I'm just taking my time and resisting the urge to just make the thing go. I don't want to continue to fiddle or have a mess-o-wires hanging all over the bike. If things go well, I'll finally put power to things this weekend. We'll see.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wineboyrider » Aug 30, 2017 7:58 pm

What happened to evoforce?
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by Evoforce » Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm

wineboyrider wrote:What happened to evoforce?
Still around! I don't visit this site often because I am very immersed in electric vehicles for now. I currently own 2 Nissan Leafs and a Tesla.

Amberwolf and I got together last Saturday to catch up a little and I got to ride his 3 wheeler. Very capable ride! When the weather cools a little, I will be back riding again. I need to get back out and exercise some pounds off.

I had a unknown heart attack earlier that my heart rerouted and rebuilt on it's own. In December, it was discovered that I had a 95% blockage in my widow maker artery and had a stent put in. Lucky to be alive! I hope you are doing well and maybe we can all get together someday.

I have many bike projects setting on the back burner...
"Energy is all consuming and it is never ending. It just changes form as it morphs through time and space... " Evoforce
                                                                                   Several 5403 motors, Phoenix Racer(5403) crystalyte suspension mtn bike LiFepo4 72/20.  (409) crystalyte 48 volt hardtail.   Phoenix Cruiser(5304)  LiFePo4 48/20.  First electric bike a 2009 XB 502-700 style, 36/20 sla scooter bike.  2) 2011 Nissan Leaf's in the mix.  Tesla Model S.  And solar!

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 31, 2017 1:25 am

Evoforce wrote: Amberwolf and I got together last Saturday to catch up a little and I got to ride his 3 wheeler. Very capable ride! When the weather cools a little, I will be back riding again. I need to get back out and exercise some pounds off.
We'll just have you pedal the SB Cruiser around...without the motors. ;)

If that's not enough of a load we'll put the trailer on there and load it down. :P


You should bring one or more of those bike projects over to work on sometime.
Last edited by amberwolf on Aug 31, 2017 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 31, 2017 1:36 am

wturber wrote: Years ago I used to commute (all human power) from around 35th Ave and Northern to Central and Thomas.
Funny coincidence--for half a year after the housefire back in 2013 i did a similar commute, though it was mostly with CrazyBike2, under power, from an apartment down on 23rd & thomas up to my workplace just north of Metrocenter. Sometimes I'd take the 31st ave bike paths, which are pretty good most of the way, sometimes I'd take the ones on 23rd ave (which really suck when you get down to Camelback and parts south).

Which paths did you use?



If you need help with the bike, (or just ride) you're welcome to come over my way, just south of Metrocenter.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 01, 2017 10:46 pm

Nice to hear from you again Evoforce!
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wineboyrider » Sep 01, 2017 10:48 pm

A Tesla there are superchargers in NM now and you can always borrow a plug in my house Evoforce. Glad you are still among the living and hope you recover from your health problems. :(
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by Evoforce » Sep 02, 2017 1:13 am

wineboyrider wrote:A Tesla there are superchargers in NM now and you can always borrow a plug in my house Evoforce. Glad you are still among the living and hope you recover from your health problems. :(
Good to hear from you also! Just passed through NM about 2 and a half weeks ago. I was up in Taos area for a couple of days on my way back from Michigan to Arizona. I hung out with a guy I met through the mynissanleaf forum whom I helped test his car battery last year. I hope things are going well for you! I wish I would have stopped by...
"Energy is all consuming and it is never ending. It just changes form as it morphs through time and space... " Evoforce
                                                                                   Several 5403 motors, Phoenix Racer(5403) crystalyte suspension mtn bike LiFepo4 72/20.  (409) crystalyte 48 volt hardtail.   Phoenix Cruiser(5304)  LiFePo4 48/20.  First electric bike a 2009 XB 502-700 style, 36/20 sla scooter bike.  2) 2011 Nissan Leaf's in the mix.  Tesla Model S.  And solar!

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by PRW » Sep 02, 2017 10:38 am

wturber wrote:Yep. Working my way through my first build right now. Years ago I used to commute (all human power) from around 35th Ave and Northern to Central and Thomas. I'd do that 2-3 times a week year round. Career changes forced a stop to bike commuting. Too many places to go in a day. Years later, I moved to Fountain Hills and the distances (and the hills) make bike commuting a problem. Training and recreational riding is great in that area though.

So, enter the e-bike. Hopefully it will "flatten" the hills a bit and extend my range. These days my commute will be closer to 15-16 miles.

Bought a used mountain bike, 1000W 48v ebay hub motor and have started tinkering. I'm trying to stay within a fairly tight budget, which has meant getting creative with batteries. That has slowed me down a bit as I learn more about what's involved. Also, I'm just taking my time and resisting the urge to just make the thing go. I don't want to continue to fiddle or have a mess-o-wires hanging all over the bike. If things go well, I'll finally put power to things this weekend. We'll see.
Hello wturber, welcome to the forum - I guess you are the table tennis guy? Looking forward to seeing your first build!

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 06, 2017 4:30 pm

amberwolf wrote:
wturber wrote: Years ago I used to commute (all human power) from around 35th Ave and Northern to Central and Thomas.
Funny coincidence--for half a year after the housefire back in 2013 i did a similar commute, though it was mostly with CrazyBike2, under power, from an apartment down on 23rd & thomas up to my workplace just north of Metrocenter. Sometimes I'd take the 31st ave bike paths, which are pretty good most of the way, sometimes I'd take the ones on 23rd ave (which really suck when you get down to Camelback and parts south).

Which paths did you use?



If you need help with the bike, (or just ride) you're welcome to come over my way, just south of Metrocenter.
Will keep the help and ride invite in mind. There's a big riding distance between Fountain Hills and Metro area though.

I commuted from 33rd Dr. and Northern to Central and Thomas. No real bike paths at the time. I used I-17 access road (surprisingly good IMO) and Osborn as my main roads. I don't know if I'd risk that today.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 06, 2017 4:36 pm

PRW wrote: Hello wturber, welcome to the forum - I guess you are the table tennis guy? Looking forward to seeing your first build!
I guess that would be me. Though the e-bike research/build has eaten into my TT time.

Here's my first phase of the build:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1317117
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by PRW » Sep 06, 2017 4:43 pm

wturber wrote:
PRW wrote: Hello wturber, welcome to the forum - I guess you are the table tennis guy? Looking forward to seeing your first build!
I guess that would be me. Though the e-bike research/build has eaten into my TT time.

Here's my first phase of the build:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1317117
very interesting project - I need to read it slowly to try and understand it a bit better!
Nice to see you on this forum - I met you at the Nationals in Las Vegas.

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 06, 2017 5:06 pm

PRW wrote: very interesting project - I need to read it slowly to try and understand it a bit better!
Nice to see you on this forum - I met you at the Nationals in Las Vegas.
Yeah - I probably said a lot about very little. Pretty standard setup except that I'm using a voltage booster - that most people seem to consider mediocre solution/approach. I'm horrible with names, so I'd probably have to see your face to remember you.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by PRW » Sep 06, 2017 5:10 pm

wturber wrote:
PRW wrote: very interesting project - I need to read it slowly to try and understand it a bit better!
Nice to see you on this forum - I met you at the Nationals in Las Vegas.
Yeah - I probably said a lot about very little. Pretty standard setup except that I'm using a voltage booster - that most people seem to consider mediocre solution/approach. I'm horrible with names, so I'd probably have to see your face to remember you.
the lack of understanding is due to my lack of knowledge, more than anything else! Big, bald South African guy, who actually played against you...
prw7 (1)-edited.jpg
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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 06, 2017 6:51 pm

PRW wrote:
wturber wrote:
PRW wrote: very interesting project - I need to read it slowly to try and understand it a bit better!
Nice to see you on this forum - I met you at the Nationals in Las Vegas.
Yeah - I probably said a lot about very little. Pretty standard setup except that I'm using a voltage booster - that most people seem to consider mediocre solution/approach. I'm horrible with names, so I'd probably have to see your face to remember you.
the lack of understanding is due to my lack of knowledge, more than anything else! Big, bald South African guy, who actually played against you...
prw7 (1)-edited.jpg
Yeah - I remember you. You destroyed me with your forehand!! I kept figuring you'd start to miss, but you didn't. :^)
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by PRW » Sep 06, 2017 7:19 pm

wturber wrote:
PRW wrote:
wturber wrote:
PRW wrote: very interesting project - I need to read it slowly to try and understand it a bit better!
Nice to see you on this forum - I met you at the Nationals in Las Vegas.
Yeah - I probably said a lot about very little. Pretty standard setup except that I'm using a voltage booster - that most people seem to consider mediocre solution/approach. I'm horrible with names, so I'd probably have to see your face to remember you.
the lack of understanding is due to my lack of knowledge, more than anything else! Big, bald South African guy, who actually played against you...
prw7 (1)-edited.jpg
Yeah - I remember you. You destroyed me with your forehand!! I kept figuring you'd start to miss, but you didn't. :^)
ha - "destroyed" is very kind - they were very close games! Really enjoyed the match...

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 07, 2017 9:51 pm

As I've been preparing to get my ebike commuter ready, I've been thinking about how I intend to operate it. Right now my inclination is to be fairly conservative and I'm considering setting the LCD/controller to a max speed of 20mph to make it more likely that I will comply with Arizona ebike law and not become a moped (which requires registration) because I slip over 20mph either marginally or egregiously. I've read different online accounts about how different police officers in different cities (I know that Tempe recently liberalized their laws on ebikes) enforce the A.R.S. So I'm interested in what kind of police encounters any Arizona riders have encountered regarding their ebikes and the ambiguities in the Arizona laws.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Sep 08, 2017 1:41 am

I just use the throttle for that 20MPH limiting; easy to learn the sound the motor makes when I'm at the right speed so I don't have to keep looking at the speedo, though I still pass eyes across it regularly as they do the circle from mirror to road to mirror and back.


Personally all the few encounters I've had in recent years have been of the type "wow, what is that thing--it's cool!", or similar, though the actual wording isn't usually that, it's really the only reason they stop me. I talk to them about it, mentioning the fact that it's just an electrically-assisted bicycle as long as it's operated under 20MPH somewhere in there, and usually about hauling my foster dogs around in it (or it's trailer), etc. Depends on their specific interest in it. Some are interested in the technical details, some in it's usage, some in it's materials sources, etc.

Ride safely and within the law, and there's no reason you'll have any problems unless someone's got a grudge against you (or cyclists in general).

More than a decade ago I had a problem with several LEOs, while riding regular bicycles; I'd be harassed by them as I rode on the street; they'd come along and tell me I have to ride on the sidewalk (which was not true), then I'd ride on the sidewalk and they'd pull along side and stop me and tell me I have to ride on the street, and this would go on whenever they were bored. They probably did it to a lot of others. After a while I stopped seeing them around at all, and suspect they might've gotten called on it by someone, and removed from the area one way or another.

But I haven't run into that kind of thing since starting my motorization stuff, with one exception several years ago; a chunky officer in a big SUV b&w pulled me over while I was on 35th avenue in the stretch that crosses the canal, where there is NO other path to use, and he said I needed to be on the sidewalk. Again, it's not true, but it's easier to not argue with them and give guys like this any reason to "find" a problem, so I just rode on the sidewalk for a ways and then returned to the road and continued home once it was unlikely I'd re-encounter him.

In this case, it was much safer to be on the road than the sidewalk, because there are many driveways there, so anyone on the sidewalk can't see that someone is coming out until they're actually at the driveway. That means I'd have to come to a complete stop at each one, and look around the corner, or risk being runover by the many idiots that don't stop until their tires are on the sidewalk. Plus, it's very dark there except for very bright spotlights at ground level that light up signs, trees, etc., and you can't easily see other pedestrians (or cyclists, since most don't have any lights) on the sidewalk until you're on top of them. Certainly can't ride at 20MPH on a sidewalk! Even 5MPh is unsafe in places like that.


As for exceeding the 20MPH limit, well, that's gonna depend on individual officers and if they have a beef with you personally, or if they are hardline about laws in general or specific ones. Myself, I won't risk the consequences of exceeding it, because in Tucson and more rarely here in Phoenix, ICE bicycle riders exceeding 20MPH have on occasion been ticketed for the "big three": riding a motorcycle without license, insurance, or registration. How that went in court later I don't know. There might be info about them on the http://AZbikelaw.org site.

I couldn't afford to be without the transportation, nor could I afford the impound fees or tickets, so I stick to the 20MPH limit. The only exceptions have been a very few times for a second accelerating out of the way of a car or truck trying to take the same place as me in the lane I was in, and braking would've gotten me squished by following traffic, and dodging to the right wasn't possible because I'm already at the righthand part of the lane as required by law. (this is a part of why I need enough power to accelerate as quickly as physically possible; the other is so I can get to my max speed of 20MPH as quickly as I can when I'm in front of a bunch of traffic at a stop light, so they have no reason to be squishing me). I doubt any LEO would begrudge me a burst of speed to avoid a collision if it's the only way to do so. ;)



Not sure what you mean by "ambiguities" in the law, though. It's pretty clear that the only limitation on a non-ICE assisted bicycle is that it be "operated below 20MPH", as long as it also fits the other few bits of definition of a bicycle in title 28. There's no power limit, PAS or pedaling requirements, etc.

That could change if they ever pass the new version of the law, but at present, that's it.
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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by wturber » Sep 08, 2017 9:23 am

Thanks for relaying your experiences. Since I'm riding a converted mountain bike, by intention has been to keep it looking as much like a "normal" bike as is practical. I was assuming that doing so and staying around 20 mph max would be the common-sense and practical approach. But I have read a few accounts where the police seem unreasonable and fairly nit-picky. But its hard to say if those accounts leave out other important facts. The hassling about street or sidewalk you have occasionally received makes it hard to just dismiss these negative accounts as merely the the result of bad motorized biker behavior and/or biased reporting of events. I'm guessing there's a mix. OTOH, I've lived in the Phoenix area all my life and have ridden my bikes many thousands of mile on human power and have never been stopped by a cop about anything while riding. Further, since I'm now pushing 60, I suspect that I'm likely to attract less attention than a younger guy might. Its an unfair bias, but I had to deal with the opposite in my younger years.

At first blush, the laws do seem straightforward. OTOH, I've read interpretations (https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/police/M ... cycles.pdf) that say the ebike motor must be below 750 watts when the statutes say no such thing. But my biggest concern is with speed coasting down hills. If I interpret the law literally, then I need to coast down hills at 20 mph or less or I'd become a moped or even a motorcycle and face some potentially stiff fines. (Maybe this is an argument for me to put regen capability on the bike.) But I'd coast down those same hills at 30-40 mph on a regular bicycle anyway, so a strict interpretation of the law becomes a bit nonsensical if you consider the law's intent - which is to have ebikes and human powered bikes share a similar range of speeds. A LEO shouldn't begrudge me the coasting, but per the law, he'd have a justification in doing so. In order to be more clear, the law should stipulate the 20 mph limit on flat land or uphill inclines only - but it doesn't do that now. The new Tempe rules introduce at least one other ambiguity, by allowing a 28 mph ebike speed limit - contradicting AZ state law. FWIW, Scottsdale strictly prohibits ebikes on multi-use paths. I'm assuming that would include sidewalks. And I agree with you wholeheartedly about the hazards of riding on sidewalks at speeds over about 8 mph. I never do that.

Heck, I'd be happy to register as a moped except that mopeds land themselves in no-mans land where they are limited to 25 mph top speeds but cannot use bike paths and must only use roads where they can attain the posted speed limit. Yuck!
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: Any Phoenix, AZ area riders / builders?

Post by amberwolf » Sep 08, 2017 3:09 pm

wturber wrote: But I have read a few accounts where the police seem unreasonable and fairly nit-picky. But its hard to say if those accounts leave out other important facts. The hassling about street or sidewalk you have occasionally received makes it hard to just dismiss these negative accounts as merely the the result of bad motorized biker behavior and/or biased reporting of events. I'm guessing there's a mix.
So far every video I've ever seen where people say they were hassled by police shows them acting pretty stupidily towards the police during the stop--either aggressive or other bad behavior, which is going to rile up teh officers and make them respond in kind. Naturally, none of the videos show the actual incident *before* the stop that caused the stop in the first place.

I see cyclists do just as many stupid things as drivers around here, so it's no surprise when I see them get stopped--but the police don't stop most cyclists or drivers even when they do really stupid dangerous things right in front of them. It would take far too long to type up even a "short" list. :lol:


OTOH, I've lived in the Phoenix area all my life and have ridden my bikes many thousands of mile on human power and have never been stopped by a cop about anything while riding. Further, since I'm now pushing 60, I suspect that I'm likely to attract less attention than a younger guy might. Its an unfair bias, but I had to deal with the opposite in my younger years.
It's generally true, as long as you're riding reasonably. I'm not much younger than you. In addition to age, I do see a difference in treatment in how people dress, too--the more ragged the clothing the more likely the police are to notice/follow. The nicer the clothing, the more the riders get away with. Spandex/Lycra doesn't make a difference there--I actually see more of those riders followed than almost any others.


At first blush, the laws do seem straightforward. OTOH, I've read interpretations (https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/police/M ... cycles.pdf) that say the ebike motor must be below 750 watts when the statutes say no such thing.
Title 28 doesn't specify any power limit. But if Tucson has their own, then that's what it is there. They don't like ICE bikes at all but they're common there, and get harassed a lot. I dont' know about ebikes.
But my biggest concern is with speed coasting down hills. If I interpret the law literally, then I need to coast down hills at 20 mph or less or I'd become a moped or even a motorcycle and face some potentially stiff fines. (Maybe this is an argument for me to put regen capability on the bike.) But I'd coast down those same hills at 30-40 mph on a regular bicycle anyway, so a strict interpretation of the law becomes a bit nonsensical if you consider the law's intent - which is to have ebikes and human powered bikes share a similar range of speeds. A LEO shouldn't begrudge me the coasting, but per the law, he'd have a justification in doing so. In order to be more clear, the law should stipulate the 20 mph limit on flat land or uphill inclines only - but it doesn't do that now.
That's true, and I've used my regen to keep me at 20MPH downhill since powering the bike (though I coasted downhill once at about 40MPH keeping up with traffic when testing the design of CrazyBike2's pre-motorization frame).

The new Tempe rules introduce at least one other ambiguity, by allowing a 28 mph ebike speed limit - contradicting AZ state law. FWIW, Scottsdale strictly prohibits ebikes on multi-use paths. I'm assuming that would include sidewalks. And I agree with you wholeheartedly about the hazards of riding on sidewalks at speeds over about 8 mph. I never do that.
I don't ride in Scottsdale at all, because the police there are different than everywhere else, and don't like cyclists at all. They definitely don't like "unsightly" bikes or vehicles of any kind and are likely to stop and harass them for no other reason, based on my limited experiences riding with others there, and when I was younger and cycled around the valley under human power.

Tempe--I dont' ride there either because despite being so-called "bike friendly" they have some of the worst drivers, the most aggressive about even regular cyclists taht are actually in bike lanes, etc, even on back streets. It's just not a safe place to ride.

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