D's RC Drive Kona DC1

Hi All,

well i guess i'll put the new drive build here and then put a link from my old build thread to here for anyone that wants to see the finished bike.
I'll be listing parts this week hopefully for a final check then buying
just to reaffirm this is my goal .................. i've never seen this done on an electric yet!!!!

ALL PARTS FOR THE NEW RC SETUP ARE SHOWN ON PAGE 2 OF THIS THREAD WHICH I WILL BE EDITING CONSTANTLY TO REFLECT EVERY CHANGE IN PRODUCT AND PRICE

cheers,

D

Yipes!

Just make sure someone has the camera rolling. So you worked out all the ratios and have decided on a motor (or at least the proper KV)? If so, good news sir! Would you mind providing a list of everything you will need to purchase in order to make this drive a reality? Also, a total £ amount if it is not too depressing. Thank you D.

Hi Guys,

indeed Gary, but the stinky has jumped before and now i will hopefully have more power/speed and no unsprung weight this is the bar which im shooting for,the pack is solid and secure and so will the drive be, so fingers crossed this is achievable, anywhere near is way good enough for me personally tbh, BUT i want the bike to be capable enough even for a very good/brave rider.
Hopefully my last post here will be an equally impressive leap picture (probably performed by someone else lol) to match it.
i posted this shot in particular as this is what i love, freeriding in a beautiful forest 8)

Etard,
yup thats exactly what i'll do with this thread, post spec list (will change some i'm sure) complete with links and prices so anyone who wants to build something similair can find all the info.Yes, im pretty much there thanks to the guys and i will start buying all the kit just after chrimbo - probably boxing day :wink: i need to read back through the threads and gather all the info again and then post the list, mostly because i dont want to order the wrong parts :lol:
total amount will be bad im afraid, but meh i've come this far and i'll post up all the way on cost.


Cheers,


D

Deecanio,

Does weight make a lot of difference for that kind of riding? eg say 10lbs overall or even 20lbs. I ask because I haven't had a bike on a trail since the 60's, but one of my employees is into downhilling competitively. I working toward a stretched copy of his frame and suspension using steel along with fiberglass and epoxy, with the goal being a silent off-roader with space withing the triangle for adding extra packs for extra range. Since I have a number of motors, I first plan to try a Stoke Monkey type of alignment using a hub motor outside of the wheel. I'm just wondering if going with something like a Puma is almost mandatory to approach the light weight of the RC motors (including mounts and gear reduction, or should I just accept a 5-10lb penalty and go with one of the direct drive hubbies I already have, just mount it near the center of the bike?

John

Hi John,

for sure the lighter the better, this questions leads to two places, firstly there's power to weight to consider, you already have a steel frame and room for expansion packs so you would need to balance things i think, example i didn't want to carry a cell over what i use for a ride lasting say 1 hour 20 mins total and so i only carry 14lbs pack.
then you have to consider what you want achieve "off road", for example when i ran the puma hub as a hub it was perfectly fine for trails (by that i mean singletrack,bumpy in places and very small jumps) but it died once the odds were upped, unsurprisingly really
but as i say for trails it was fine it was just when things got rougher it failed, the hub was 8-9lbs which is acceptable imo, im thinking my rc setup will weigh about the same but has many advantages, more power, smaller system footprint,standard wheel setup,centre of gravity,unsprung weight etc.
i haven't really looked at the stoke monkey i'll check it out, if you have hubs to try for free i'd say use those first, if you like the way it runs you can always get a puma to replace what you have, i thought briefly about putting the puma in the frame triangle but decided against it, always wondered how that would pan out :lol: centre of gravity is paramount for jumping so yes frame mount near the crank if poss.
what sort of power do you intend to run John? if around 5kw any reason you aren't interested in a rc setup?


Cheers<

D

D,

If I was already into and experienced with RC, then I'd be out there on the leading edge, but since I'm not I need to lag back a bit. I'd also like to see low speed and controller issues addressed before I jump in with both feet. Plus I've got motors I need to put to use, including some designed for 2kw continuous on electric scooters/motorcycles. I just want to add variable gearing in the mix and on a vehicle far lighter than the 110-140kg vehicles they were built for. It's not at all that I'm not interested in RC...this is just easier for me and I don't see others trying what appears a simple approach.

John

D,

Looking forward to the RC version of the stinky! The hub version was a fantastic example of fabrication. Love to see the jump as well. Might need to think about beefier wheels and axles at least to handle the extra weight on the landing.

I have a pic of my final drive up and had a test run. The post to see the details. I won't clog your thread with it.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7542&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

FM

John in CR said:

D,

If I was already into and experienced with RC, then I'd be out there on the leading edge, but since I'm not I need to lag back a bit. I'd also like to see low speed and controller issues addressed before I jump in with both feet. Plus I've got motors I need to put to use, including some designed for 2kw continuous on electric scooters/motorcycles. I just want to add variable gearing in the mix and on a vehicle far lighter than the 110-140kg vehicles they were built for. It's not at all that I'm not interested in RC...this is just easier for me and I don't see others trying what appears a simple approach.

John

Click to expand...

Hi John,

yes indeed, i can understand that, i had the same thought tbh but with all my rc experience (none lol) im just going to jump right in there and have a stab anyway.
i think it will be fine, Matts recumbant and gary's cyclone give me great confidence that this will work beautifully
Variable gearing is also what interests me greatly, it will be awesome to have three gears with which to play either pedaling or just ripping on motor alone, you've seen in the figures in the freewheel crank thread that the performance should be truly awesome. Top end isn't something im too worried about but definately more torque is required
i'll be very interested to see how your setup works out, are you going to mount a hub in the frame and connect to crank then use standard gears?


Hi fm,

your build is coming on well i will have another look when i get home as my work pc is a little slow - have you any video yet?
As far as the beefier wheel/hub setup is concerned i have total faith in my current setup - my current wheel setup is pure DH mtb, i have a 20mm through axel on the front with halo SAS rim (pinned and welded) and halo spin doctor hub, both will take the beating with no issue i have been assured, for the rear which is currently being laced i have ordered a halo spin doctor pro hub which comes with a nice beefy 10mm solid through axel and again a halo SAS rim, both wheels are more than capable for a little air


Cheers

D

deecanio said:

...Top end isn't something im too worried about but definately more torque is required
i'll be very interested to see how your setup works out, are you going to mount a hub in the frame and connect to crank then use standard gears?...

Click to expand...

I'm no cyclist, so my viewpoint is human assist, not electric assist. I think this enables a very simple setup. With no worries about drag for pedal only (dead battery emergency), then I make the hubbie the combining jackshaft with a freewheel to receive the chain from the crank, and a fixed sprocket or chainrings also on the motor going to the wheel. A rear hub motor that is threaded on both sides would make installation almost as easy as an "in wheel" install, assuming a crank can be easily flipped for left side chain ring use.

I look forward to seeing yours come along, because ultimately I'll end up that route using a scratch built composite frame, though I'd really like to go inrunner and liquid cooling using AL tubing as part of the frame structure to make much of the bike a heat sink for the motor.

John

Hi John,

yes i see where your going, looking forward to the build.
imrunner with liquid cooling ? whoa i cant keep up with that!!!!

cheers,

D

deecanio said:

Hi John,

yes i see where your going, looking forward to the build.
imrunner with liquid cooling ? whoa i cant keep up with that!!!!

cheers,

D

Click to expand...

The gap between my ideas and a finished build is like the Grand Canyon, so you're light years ahead of me.

Have a great Christmas!

John

heheheh, hopefully we'll all be 70+ and riding bikes still
you too John, Merry Christmas to all!!!


D

Deecanio wrote:

heheheh, hopefully we'll all be 70+ and riding bikes still

Click to expand...

Since I'll be 69 in March, I sure hope so!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

:lol:
we salute you Rassy
Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year to you sir.

D

Right time to start buying in some parts i think
here's a few bits and pieces and i'll adjust the prices depending on where i actually get them.



http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO22.html (thanks Mitch)

eno 22t freewheel x 2 £94.51...............................................PURCHASED!! price X 2 = $140

http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?product_id=10590&category_id=11

echo sl cranks (BLACK) x 1 = £107.66.......................................PURCHASED!! price x 1 = $159.48

http://holmeshobbies.com/product.php?productid=247&cat=2&page=1 (thanks again Mitch)

Phoenix HV-110 ESC from John Rob Holmes x 1 = £155.10 .....PURCHASED!! price X 1 = $184.00

http://www.astroflight.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=122

Astroflight 3210 x 1 = $400

http://www.kartingdirect.co.uk/product.php/661/0/

Extron composite sprocket 80t = £4.35 ...............................PURCHASED!! price = $5.91


Miles, will you help me with the Gates stuff again please? i couldnt make head nor tail of there site :lol:
Most of the info of how i want to set up is in the freewheel crank resources thread - off the top of my head i think we are going with 12t-60t motor to pulley and then 18-80t gates drive to the crank but hopefully someone will double check that with me before i buy.
I'll get in touch with Steve this week and see when my wheel is done and when he has time for my pack reconfig so hopefully i will start the mechanical build in the next two weeks or so.
Some parts i haven't listed yet because i dont know what the best one is for my goal so if you guys can input on them possibly with links that would be great
i'm thinking about the servo tester,bec?,etc all the stuff i have no clue about.
I'm a little dissapointed about Davids new motor not coming now but this will give me time to see how Garys hacker turns out for him, as i said i will probably get one too for now barring Gary telling me not to.

Matt,

Do you have any idea how long before drives are shipped? i need a few mods to mine so i'm not expecting miracles here are you still ok to put an eno into the 60t pulley for me, also is the anodising still happening?
I'll speak to Miles hopefully to check but i think i need the freewheel machining into the pulley - i think we said that was a good way to not backdrive the motor?

Anyway time to get the bike moving along as there will always be problems along the way and im hoping to be done by the end of March at the very latest, sooooooo............. get the links up for the bits (or cheaper places/alternatives) and i'll post pics as the parts arrive and put the prices i paid up too, new car will have to wait :lol:



Cheers all, and a happy new year!!!



D

Hi D,

Google turns up a slightly better price on the Eno 22t:
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO22.html

Probably cheaper to have a bunch of pieces shipped to a friend in the U.S. Then have the whole lot shipped to the UK.

Regarding the servo tester, etc., Richard Fechter is prototyping a new design, and I'm working on the PCB layout, for a throttle convertor board, that includes current limiting, a BEC that will work with up to 72V pack setup and room for 3-4 large caps, to help the ESC. these should be ready by the time you get your bike together.

Still working on the Hacker setup. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to mount the "box" setup to the Curve D3 frame. I may just wait for Matt's drive, which is probably going to be easier to mount.

-- Gary

It's no good relying on my memory! LOL

Didn't we decide on 14t to 80t for the second stage?

Hi D,

That will be great bike. My goal for the next bike is similar: Full suspension with minimal travel 250mm front and back min. 50km/h on 10% hill without pedaling (uphill of course) and max weight 15kg without batt. I plan to use small easy detachable battery or even in back pack so it can be easy transformed into regular downhill bike. Motor, controler and gearing will be integrated into frame. Still not sure about final chain but it will be geared down to 50rpm and conencted to pedals.

Here is first sketch of bike geometry. The green one is rear swingarm and the circles are two aditional pivot arms for swingarm. I plan to use same axes for transmission and swing arm.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo348/GRAYBORG/HXTbikedrawing-1.jpg?t=1231151486

Good luck with your build and Happy New Year to all.

D,

My single stage drives are almost totally done. I am picking up all bearings today. The last details are shafts. Those should be here in a few days (shafts cut to length and beveled, perfect for my drives).

Two stage drives will be available on a per order basis. What I mean by that is, each bike will require a uniqe ratio. So, as two stage drives are ordered, I will obtain the correct sprockets to complete that drive.

I will begin taking payments for drives as soon as I have all components for the single stage drives here. That should be this week! Once those drives are ready and I begin taking payments for them, I will also begin taking two stage drive payments.

Oh, I will need your motor in hand so I can machine mounting holes/slots for it (or at least the specs for it). The reason I want the motor in my hand if possible, is because there is more to know than just the hole location. Outrunners normally have a clip or set screw collar on the front of the motor for shaft retension. I need to provide clearance for that on each drive. There is also the matter of mounting screw diameter and head style. That is important for a number of reasons. Heck with some motors, an adaptor face plate needs to be custom made due to belt tension/leverage issues depending on the face layout of the motor.

Anyway, we are just about there!

Matt

Hi All,

Matt,

that is awesome news
i can pay you whenever your ready, if you want to get the standard ones out the door first that's fine as i am hoping you will do a few extras for me and anodise 8)
my spec is please ...single stage unit with black body and blue pulleys all round, 12t to 60t, however i'm hoping that you will be able to put one of my eno's into the 60t? i think between you,me and miles we agreed this was the best option not to backdrive the motor whilst pedaling,because im having a gates pulley out put to the crank not a freewheel sprocket.
Hope this is ok and doable? thanks for explaining why you need the motor specs at least,that makes perfect sense, i'm not sure if you will actually need a motor for me though as i will get either use the same hacker Gary runs or maybe the pletty, any different and i'll send you the motor.
oooh Also - were any of the wheels/parts i showed you any good, i know if it was me i'd want to pick type and colours but let me know as they're not cheap and your welcome to them if they suit

Gary,

great news on the new boards, could make life much simpler for all, i did see Richard was working on it so we'll see how that and your hacker go - no worries on time as i'll need to scrape together all the parts anyway which may take a while.

Miles,

i think the last you posted on the gates was 80t for the crank and 18t for the gb output, you had posted a site which did 14t but told me not to look at it, lol - anyway if you give me links to the 80 and 18t that would be great. i'll check the freewheel resources thread and see what you wrote, if we can use 14t great but i think you,gary and i decided 18 was best for purchase on the belt reasons.

Mitch,

thanks for the post that is exactly what im looking for and i'll edit the list each time with better prices

Hal9000,

That will be verrrrry nice, you'll have the benefit of seeing all our setups and how they pan out before you decide how you want to do it.

I guess Mitch makes a very good point, most of my stuff will come from the US so if anyone is willing to be my freind accross the puddle that would be great.
Matt, you would be my first choice as most of it needs to come to you anyway but i understand how busy you are and probably wont want my bits turning up at yours willy nilly, maybe i'll just get them all sent to me and then send you whatever you need? meh we'll figure something out.
I spoke with Steve today and he is nearly finished with that amazing TTx01 bike, that means Stinky is a full on go by end of next week, awesome, so i'll be getting my rear wheel laced and the pack reconfigged to 50v, also new charger that will charge me fully from dead in just over half an hour, nice. Also Steve has used the serious switch to cut power on the TT that Doc used recently so hopefully i can get one of them too, i like to be able to kill the bike and if it works maybe something for others to think about.

Good stuff Gents, all stinky systems GO!!!!!!!!!



Cheers,


D

Weren't the options 18t to 100t or 14t to 80t?

This was my last post on the subject:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7641&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=219

ahhhhh indeed it was, i knew you'd remeber where we discussed.
ok, can i ask for a link to the 14&80t please Miles? then i can post up the prices etc, ooh how do i know what belt i will need size wise? im guessing that the tension on that belt will be determined by the mounting of the drive? or maybe a really strong tensioner, we'll see.
Thanks Miles


D

The 14t from here: http://www.torquetrans.com/pulleys/timing-pulleys/8mm.htm

The 80t from here: http://www.cycledrive.com/home.html or http://www.ixibike.com/

Leave the second stage belt until you know the likely pulley C.D.