Astro 3210 group buy?

[mud2005]

a 3210 anodized black for $285 includes shipping I can hardly believe it. I'll take 1 for sure, wish I had more money or I'd get more. If my buddy who owes me a bunch of cash pays me before this happens I will take more, but I can't count on that happening.
when's the deadline for ordering these?

One question though, I've always wondered about getting a 3210 w/ a hardened steel shaft. I'm a huge perfectionist (spaz?) and I never liked how the set screws dig into the shaft when tightened. I tend to take the pulley on and off mine often while experimenting and it has many circles on it.
Is a hardened steel shaft possible on a 3210? If astroflight doesn't want to deal with it I could even get the shaft myself and cut it to size and grind flats and ship it to astro.
Sorry to be a pain w/ special requests and all, but I had to ask.
If it's not possible I still want 1 motor for sure in black and 10 turn.

I can also pre-pay.

[liveforphysics]

a 3210 anodized black for $285 includes shipping I can hardly believe it. I'll take 1 for sure, wish I had more money or I'd get more. If my buddy who owes me a bunch of cash pays me before this happens I will take more, but I can't count on that happening.
when's the deadline for ordering these?

One question though, I've always wondered about getting a 3210 w/ a hardened steel shaft. I'm a huge perfectionist (spaz?) and I never liked how the set screws dig into the shaft when tightened. I tend to take the pulley on and off mine often while experimenting and it has many circles on it.
Is a hardened steel shaft possible on a 3210? If astroflight doesn't want to deal with it I could even get the shaft myself and cut it to size and grind flats and ship it to astro.
Sorry to be a pain w/ special requests and all, but I had to ask.
If it's not possible I still want 1 motor for sure in black and 10 turn.

I can also pre-pay.

Flats = weak.
Dimples = win.


Barely put any tension on the setscrew when you are in the stage of figuring things out for sprocket placement and RnD. Once you get locations figured out, take the setscrew out, and run a drill down the setscrew hole slightly smaller than the thread ID to get a position marked. Remove the sprocket and drill the dimple in the shaft to match the profile of the end of the setscrew. Re-assemble. Done.

[mud2005]

Flats = weak.
Dimples = win.


Barely put any tension on the setscrew when you are in the stage of figuring things out for sprocket placement and RnD. Once you get locations figured out, take the setscrew out, and run a drill down the setscrew hole slightly smaller than the thread ID to get a position marked. Remove the sprocket and drill the dimple in the shaft to match the profile of the end of the setscrew. Re-assemble. Done.

ok then, I guess I was just doing it wrong I'll take one motor w/ regular shaft, black, 10 turn.
Thanks Luke!

and of course, thanks Matt!

[mwkeefer]

Matt,

Wow... great job with Astro - you weren't kidding when you said you were "working on Bob" for a better price point.

At $285.00 incl s&h to usa - I'm in for at least 1, likely 2 or 3 (will know on addtl motors later but wanted to post my support now).

Prepay not a problem = )_

How should we specify wires/turns or kv/volts/amps - handling 50 seperate emails of specs would get a bit daunting I would think?

-Mike

[drewjet]

At $285 I am in for one. Prepay and delivery in Jan/Feb not a problem. Especially if you can use this to light the fire under his ass on sensors.

[recumpence]

For now, I will keep a mental track of how many are wanted from this thread. Once we approach 30, I will make an exact list that I will post so you guys can correct me on any errors. After that, I can post my PP address and I can place the order.

At this point, it looks like we will be at 30 motors very soon.

I enjoy this because it also gives me a bit more pull with Astro and I am able to tack on extra motors at the discount for my own inventory to be sold at a later date. Man, if I could afford to, I would buy all 50 myself.

Matt

[Miles]

Matt,

Do you normally order motors with the leads exiting through the side of the case, or through the end?

[recumpence]

Ahh, VERY good question, Miles.

Astro seems to always ship 3210s to me with side exit wires and 3220s with rear exit. I think they happen to have 3220 cans with rear holes in stock, so that is what they send. I normally order 6 or 7 3210s at a time, so, I get fresh cans each time.

Anyway, I do not want to confuse the order too much with various options. Winding options are all I want to offer. I do not want to make this too difficult for Astro to fill.

So, it will be;

3210 with black can (all will have black cans)
Either 6 turn or 10 turn
All motors will have side exit wires and standard 3/8 inch shafts. I may be able to get hardened shafts on all motors with an order of this size. I can ask. But, all motors will have the same shafts. My last order of four 3220s came with hardened stainless shafts. So, that may be easy to specify. I will try, but I cannot promise anything.

I appreciate your trust in this. It is good that we are such a close knit community here.

Matt

[liveforphysics]

Sensors?

Astro Bob had said something like he would have those in 2 months, and that was about a year ago. lol

Since you've got an open communication channel with him, if you get the chance to ask, that would be fantastic Thanks Matt!

[Tiberius]

Matt,

Is there info about the axial and radial loads the shafts will take at various speeds?

I guess they are designed for direct fitting of props and you and others uses them with belt drives so they should be good for both axial and radial loads, but it would be good to see some numbers.

I'm reviving my hovercraft project (discussed here on ES some time ago); I've got 6 spreadsheets open right now to crunch the design numbers. Its looking good so far and if it works, then I'll want four motors.

Nick

[JEB]

Matt, I am in for 1 3210, could you slip in a 4 turn?

Jim

[recumpence]

I think I could sneak in a 4 turn.

Matt

[enoob]

the good is i can direct the wife here to see where she's gonna get my xmas present . so put me down for 1 (brilliant timing by the way)

the bad is the wife is gonna come in here currently is sure im internet cheating and thats better than finding out where all my "office" time and spare money has been going.

my birthday in august netted me the bike im e-biking and she knows to worry when i hibernate in here (been doin lots of reading got me some dc motor learnin to do. dont wanna be an enoob forever)

chad K.
ps im in canada but can give you an american shipping address that is 20 mins from my house. any other Canadians that havent done this before (used an american border based reciever) pm me and ill fill ya in , i use http://www.shiphappenssumas.com/ .

[katou]

I will buy one. I'm in Canada, ship via USPS avoids major problems. UPS sucks. I can have the cash available anytime. I would prefer to make a deposit, then in full when they are ready to ship, but I would pay in full now if required. Now, how about a group buy on ESC's....


Katou

[mwkeefer]

Matt,

Would it be possible to have all 6 phase wires brought out? For those who wanted it would easily allow the use of delta or wye without opening the case and for the rest of us it's prewired for a delta/wye setup.


Also.. I see youve standardized on 2 turn counts, do you have any idea the kV we would be running at (at what voltage) on this runs.. Now that you've decided, a link to the relevant data might get our count up to 50 faster with fewer questions.

Finally - I'm at 2 motors mimimum now and waiting on 3-4 people additionally to get back to me on these, should be good for 3 at this point.

-Mike

[mud2005]

3210chart.jpg (248.9 KiB) Viewed 824 times

[etard]

I'm not really understanding that chart. I need something that will compare outputs at certain voltages, like 10s or 12s. I am willing to figure out the gear reduction based on the motor performance. Does this make sense? Also, I want to know where the sweet spot each motor will like, and then coordinate my gearing accordingly. I would also prefer to have six wires exiting for delta/wye. And it would be nice to have the option to add sensors at a later date when they become available. It would really be slick if Astro Bob could market this as an upgrade to the motors already produced, so that all his loyal first adopters could reap the benefit of this as well. Or maybe someone here could devise a simple solution. I am sure there are many that would gladly pay extra to avoid sync issues.

[Miles]

etard,

Just multiply the Kv figure by the voltage that you want to use, to get the no load speed. The power shaft value will obviously go up or down, as you move away from the nominal voltage for a specific winding.

NB: Kv figure for the 24 turn winding should read 57 rpm/Volt

[liveforphysics]

If somebody gets BigMoose a picture of the rotor/magnet layout, he will give the sensor positions needed for Delta or Wye operation. Combine that with Miles CAD work for a board layout, and Gary's board printing connections, and we can have a sensor retro-fit done ourselves without waiting on Bob for who knows how many years. lol

Combine with the IRF 4110 fitted 6-fet programable infinion controllers the size of a creditcard, and you've got yourself a 100v sensored drive solution for a fraction of the cost of a castle ESC.

[drewjet]

If somebody gets BigMoose a picture of the rotor/magnet layout, he will give the sensor positions needed for Delta or Wye operation. Combine that with Miles CAD work for a board layout, and Gary's board printing connections, and we can have a sensor retro-fit done ourselves without waiting on Bob for who knows how many years. lol

Combine with the IRF 4110 fitted 6-fet programable infinion controllers the size of a creditcard, and you've got yourself a 100v sensored drive solution for a fraction of the cost of a castle ESC.

Now that's what I am talking about.

I will try and get a pic of my 3220 today.

[recumpence]

I also agree sensored is the way to go, ultimately. Yes, Bob is at least willing to talk to me about his findings and what is going on with sensors. However, even I have been unable to get him going on it. I do know he does not particularly want to make the boards himself. But, he told me directly that he has an outside vendor that came up with a solution and is sending him a board to test. I do not know exactly what that meand time-wise, though. I would assume it is a llooooong time away. Anyway, I do not want to muddy up this thread with the sensor issue. Sensors are where we need to be for E-bike nirvana, for sure. However, the stadard Astro 3210 is just about perfect for our needs even with the sensorless issues. So, being that this is the closest we can come at this point, I can at least get us a group buy discount on them.

I am not 100% sure about all 6 wires exiting the can. Yes, I can get various winds (I cleared that with Bob yesterday). I do not want to convolute the whole thing with 30 different motor layouts in our order of 50 motors. Never-the-less, it may not be a big deal for Bob. After all, these motors are hand assembled and hand wound. A few winding differences is not a big deal. What I do not want to have happen is---------------- "OK, Bob, I want 1 motor with silver can, double shafts, 5 turn, 6 wire. Next I want a black can, 5 turn, single shaft, 6 wire. After that, I want 3 motors 7 turn singles shaft, silver can, 3 wires." You know what I mean? Part of the group buy thing is making it easier for the manufacturer. Various turns is fine and I may be able to talk Bob into exiting 6 wires on some motors. But, I do not want to push my luck with too many differences. Actually, what may be best is ,once we have all motors spoken for, I can send Bob a list and quietly sneak a few into that list that specify 6 wire. He will be so happy to have a large order like this that he may not care at that point.


Matt

[JEB]

Matt: You are right, maybe this is a good time to start a 3210 hall sensor thread- what I don't understand (is a lot) about using fixed hall devices that latch as to the start and stop of the timed power pulse that it is the correct lenght? as to the rotation of the width of the magnet and the wound magnetic laminations width.

As to say that the power pulse is to short, or too long, right starting point for maxium power, or efficienty . My thought was to have a external disk with the correct number of magnets embeded in it that could be timed to the best starting point (power on) then use something like a one shot ( 4538?) that could be ajusted to have the optimum width for turn off.

Is this just adding to many parts to what is now a simple solution that works?

Jim

[recumpence]

My thought was to have a external disk with the correct number of magnets embeded in it that could be timed to the best starting point (power on) then use something like a one shot ( 4538?) that could be ajusted to have the optimum width for turn off.

I had a conversation with Bigmoose this morning about this very thing. That would, indeed, be the most accurate way to implement halls on this motor.

At any rate, this should be discussed in another thread..........

Matt

[j3tch1u]

i'm down for one--8 turn, black. would like to have 6 wires out as well. btw, does anyone know which side of the rotor (and which side of the flat washer) the little wavy washer goes? dissassembled my 3210 to machine the shaft and forgot to take notes. what does that thing do anyways?

[mwkeefer]

Matt,

Im thinking the 2 base windings would be sufficient (if you follow the various kV logic and possible reduction style setups, they would work in all cases) and if the 6 phase wires can be brought out as the "stock" option than the kV can be varied by 1.73 (yep and the power I know) so we would in effect have 4 base kV levels and 2 different power ranges.

Since it is so easy to simply take three of the phase lines and tie them together right at the motor to create wye termination and delta isn't any harder really... it just opens alot of potential for the application which otherwise would require the consumer to open the motor - somthing most people wouldn't be comfortable with (Id even be a little hinky about it, worried I would not get it back together properly... this is an Astro afterall not my crappy towerpro).

With regard to hall sensors - sadly I don't have the Astro motor yet but I have done the Halls 2 ways (thanks to Jermey Harris for the initial idea) on my tower pro models... I have embedded @ 120 degrees 3 smt halls and I have created a PCB which bolts over the back to mount 3 halls, then I used a flat lipped 8mm prop mount (I think that's what it was) to embed the magnets in the proper location and attach to the shaft... timing can be adjusted by loostening the set screw on the magnet disc and spinning it in either direction. My newer PCB design (not made yet) will support 2 center halls (one above and one below the PCB) so that Delta/Wye can be flipped without needing to invert the center hall, it's already there in inverted mode, just switching the center hall source will handle the adjustment of hall angle.

I should think that if I enlarge the bore on the PCB to handle the Astro that we could use a similar magnetic disc on the shaft to trip the halls?

I am also looking at optical speed sensing... it seems this will allow for much cleaner and higher RPM monitoring of the speeds over hall sensors - I am only experimenting with this now using the std light interrupting disc method (I scrounged the parts from an old scooter I had laying around).

If I can find a true mechanical drawing of the Astro including shafts I will be happy to CAD up the PCB and source a magnet disc of some form or other for this purpose.

-Mike

PS: Sorry just saw the bit about discussed in another thread - when one is created or pointed out I will transplant above post.