Astro 3210 group buy?

[mwkeefer]

Yes at a minimum, more if possible = )_

Everyone in this thread has their own reasons, some are for elite status of RC ebike build, some may want motor for RC use, some want the power to pull hills without slowing down or haul cargo or even to go highway speeds... My reasons are quite simple, hp to weight ratio is directly related to the safety of light vehicles in my mind.

If you think about it... 6000w is really just 8hp of output power, my old gocarts used 8hp motors. A motorcycle (My Katana GSXR 750 is 129.1hp) and weighs in at 359lb - add rider @ 170 and total weight is 529 without any additional cargo. My bikes weigh about 225lb without a load but with rider (me).

This works out to:
Katana 750 HP to Weight: 4.1hp per lb
eBike (6kw) hp to weight: .035 hp per lb
eBike (750w US legal) hp to weight: .0044 hp per lb

Now when comparing power to weight ratios, do things make more sense in grand scheme and scale?

Most people want to cruise along with traffic which means a bike capable of 25-40+ mph, they may not use the available power at all times (I don't) but they will (especially with my terrain/hills) eventually need the extra power (I do).

If you add weight of cargo or anything else (don't forget your helmet, bags, laptop, spare clothes) you further decrease power to weight ratios...

I suppose I want a bike comfortable and efficient at 25 mph but also able to hit 45 top end when needed, I would want more power on tap because if it could be kept streetable... well there's no substitute for being able to "get out of the way of danger" and you need available power to accomplish this. I could never pedal 225lbs of me and bike fast enough to avoid a car coming at me but my bike (when used within it's speed range) is actually quite nimble and easily able to "jump" out of the way as needed. This has saved my bacon on more than one occassion and my top end is only around 3kw now... the issue here becomes not jumping out of the way from a dead stop but at 25mph, being able to jump quickly to 45 to get out of the way.. for that I need higher RPM and more top end power to sustain speeds.

-Mike

[liveforphysics]

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

If your WS6 username implys you drive an F-body with ~345hp from a 5.7L V8 in a 2 seater passenger car, I would say you've got minimal room to talk about wanting a little more power than would be required to suffice in an application.

[mwkeefer]

ws6 - unless you have the bed of the FBody loaded with Lipo and hub motors at all 4 wheels.. luke has a point = )_
-Mike

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

No but I want a more powerful system so I can keep up with the flow of traffic in steep terrain without putting undue stress on the motor and esc. For example a friend rides over a local hill on a bike path that is separated from a 8 lane highway by a metal fence. Its like biking through a waste land. The alternative route is a beautiful tree lined steep winding road. It isn't safe riding up that windy road on a bicycle because he is constantly being caught and passed by inattentive drivers. At 20-25mph (30-40kph) cars couldn't keep up with the bike so he could ride safely on that road. For that one route the option of a bike path exists. For many of the local roads bike path's are not an option.

[TylerDurden]

Ws6 could be a contraction of "Wessex"...

[flyinmonkie]

It only takes around 8hp to 10hp to maintain highway speeds on a flat for a standard car, but most cars have 90hp to 200hp. Why have so much extra power? If you car only had 10hp, it would take you until you get to your destination to get up to highway speed and you would never get over a mountain pass, let alone up a moderate hill. All that extra power allows you to accelerate up to speed in a safe manor and maintain those speeds no matter what the terrain. It also allows you to carry 3 or 4 extra people and a trunk full of groceries or luggage.

These are the same reasons to have a high power ebike. To make it truly useful, you need to accelerate to you cruising speed in a reasonable and safe time. You need to maintain those speeds over a variety of terrain. You may want to be able to carry extra loads if you are using your ebike as a daily commuter and trying to use your car as little as possible.

Of course there are those that just feel the need for speed. Most major developments in transportation come from racing, pushing the limits and the addition of more power. So whether you condone the extreme application of power or not, those that are using it are pushing the limits and developing the technics and parts that will be the standard of any power build. If they can be used for 6000w, then they will be more than enough and last a long time at 600w.

Keep pushing the bar guys, you are paving the way for the rest of us.

[JEB]

I have a Perm 132 dc motor on one of my trikes, from a stop I can draw 6000~watts, but all that gets me is a tire that wears faster, and a head jerk.

I have the trike geared for 20mphr, the steepest hills that I go up the draw is less than 2000~watts.

[johnws6]

Lol. I just thought that seemed a little excessive for a e-bike. I have a 3000 watt motor on my pocket bike i built a year or so ago and it does 50 mph. I dont need a pocket bike that does 50 mph, but its just fun i guess. When you guys say something well 6000 watts is just cutting it ,i begin to wonder if you even need peddles anymore? Either way still cool stuff, dont want to hijack the thread. And yes i do have a 02 WS6, its just a summer weekend car.

[slowbuild]

Hi Matt,

if the dead line has not expired yet can I order a 6 turn 3220 in black as well as the 3210 10 turn in black
(the last was mentioned in a previous post earlier in the thread).

So to summarize I'm in for

1 3220 a 6 turn in black
1 3210 a 10 turn in black

hope this is ok?

regards

[recumpence]

Since Astro has not returned my call from Friday, yes, you can add yours on.

I can continue to take add-ons untill I finalize my order with Astro Flight.

I was hoping to finalize it Friday. But, they must have been swamped that day. So, I have not heard back.

Once I hear from them on making the order somewhat jumbled with many different motor sizes and KVs, (I would assume they aill be OK with it) then I will make a list and give them the list. So, once I hear from them, I will post that it is all good for our mixed group buy. At that point, I will give (most likely) a one day final chance to add to the order, then it will be closed.

However, I will be ordering some extra motors for myself. So, after the cutoff, there will still be a few available.

Matt

[slowbuild]

Since Astro has not returned my call from Friday, yes, you can add yours on.

Matt

Hi Matt,

many thanks! E-biking should be a lot of fun with these motors

regards,

[kevo]

If not too late, I'd like to add a 3210 10 turn black.
Thx for organizing,
Kevin

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

Decided on a 3220. Still not sure how many turns .

[recumpence]

OK, I spoke with Astro yesterday. They are swamped right now. They are due to call me today.

So, who wants to go through the thread and figure out the exact list of motors spoken for?

Matt

[liteCycles]

Here is what I have. Some had specifically requested black - but that is the default.

Code: Select all

Member      qty   Motor   Turn   Comments
Miles         1   3210      
Tiberius      4?   3210      crunching numbers, 8150?
RWP           2   3210      about 100 Kv
jonny24       1   3210      
flyinut       1   3220   4   
regmeister    1   3210      consider if sensored
mud2005       1   3220   10   3 wires
mwkeefer      3?   3210      2 for sure (6 wires?)
drewjet       1             8150 or 3220, 6 wires
JEB           1   3210   4   
enoob         1   3210      
katou         1   3210      
j3tch1u       1   3210   8   
slowbuild      1   3210   10   
slowbuild      1   3220   6   
K-ray          1   3210   10   
Addicted       1   3210      
Burtie         1   3220   4   6 wires
georgeycc      1   3220      6 wires
liteCycles      1   8150   6   6 wires
MitchJi         1   3220   ?   
kevo            1   3210   10   


mud2005 also has a list going so we can cross-reference and look for errors -
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14151&start=30#p211671

Anyone know of a good way to post a clean list on the sphere?

[j3tch1u]

if it's not too late, i'd like to get an 8150 or 3220 instead. how much for the 8150 and what are the kv's for various turns? sorry to upset the mix. many thanks matt for getting us such a great discount.

[katou]

Finalize my order as following:

6 turn 3210 kv 225

Katou

[MitchJi]

Hi,

if it's not too late, i'd like to get an 8150 or 3220 instead. how much for the 8150 and what are the kv's for various turns? sorry to upset the mix. many thanks matt for getting us such a great discount.

If the discount is similar to the 3120 and 3220 the price should be about $350.

8150 Web Link:
http://www.astroflight.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=197

8150 pdf here:
http://www.astroflight.com/pdfs/8150-5Tweb.pdf

The kv's are only listed for 5 turns but they should all be in the middle, between the 3210 and 3220 models with the same number of turns.


From litecylcles list, plus additions and subtracting the 4 by Tiberius (who posted that the 3120 isn't adequate for his application and has not posted since) I get:
3120---17
8150---1
8150 or 3220---2
3220---6

Since that the initial target was 30 [plus Matt buying 20] 3120's or 20 3220's if Bob is willing to combine them we're close.

[recumpence]

I heard back from Astro Flight.

Here is the deal.

The prices are still not going down even with the 3220s added to the order. Basically, we have enough 3220s (along with mine I am ordering) to do $550 each shipping included. The 3210s, however, would be $310 each at the quantity we have (again, even with me ordering a number of them). They never mentioned the 8150s. However, I would assume the price would be right between the 3220s and 3210s.

Also, the cans would be bare aluminum to save the $10 per motor for anodizing.

Bob said the 3210s require the same amount of labor as a 3220. So, the quantity needs to be higher to make the super discount worth while. We are still not far from the original price quote. $25 each motor higher, for the lower quantity, is not bad at all.

So, should we go for it?

Matt

[RWP]

Thank you so much for doing this Matt!!!

If there is anything I can do to assist please let me know.
I am in for two (2) - 5 turn - 3220s
Roy

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

They never mentioned the 8150s. However, I would assume the price would be right between the 3220s and 3210s.

Matt

I decided on a 3220 so I'm not asking this for myself.
Retail prices are:
3120 - $399
8150 - $499 (not right between, only $100 more than a 3120 and $300 less than the 3220)
3220 - $799

But:
3210 - $310 ($90 savings)
8150 - $430 (right between the 3210 and the 3220 discounted prices but $30 more than retail!)
3220 - $550 ($250 savings)

8150's at a $100 to $120 discount ($380 to $400) would be a proportional savings to the 3210 discounted price.

Also, the cans would be bare aluminum to save the $10 per motor for anodizing.

Is the lack of anodizing only apply to the 3120's and 8150's or the 3220's also?

Regardless do we have the option to pay the extra $10 for anodizing (either individually or as a group)?

[liteCycles]

Heres how I'm crunching it. Please point out any errors!

And regmeister, you out there? Are you firm on the sensored?

But we definitely cleared the dollar amount.

AstroFlightGroupBuy.jpg (62.26 KiB) Viewed 527 times

If the discount % falls between the 3210 and 3220 we would be at $365. Please confirm this - It may affect which way I swing.

GroupRate.jpg (7.94 KiB) Viewed 525 times

[kevo]

Amend my order to maybe two 3210's.
Possible one 3210 (10t) / one 3220 (5t),
sorry about the indecision - will firm up.
Greatly prefer 6 wire (delta/wye) if available,
Thanks recumpence!

[flyinut]

No change, just wanted to ask for 6 wire, 4 turn 3220. More to play with!

Mark W. Dickey
KHYS/KU42

[blitzwagen]

I'm in.

1 X 3220 4 turn with 6 wires