The Cyclone Thread. cyclone users report here!!

Sorry - I think they suck :(

I had the 1kw cyclone kit. Juiced it up to 100V 100A. Broke and bent everything. Lots of noise. Not much power. Always breaking chains and throwing chains and causing me all sorts of grief. Admittedly most of that grief was due to over-powering the kit and a sloppy install.

Now - If you are a regular guy running regular power - I am sure you will be happy. I am an insane person and I am rarely happy with anything.

When compared to a 9C motor - I would take the 9C any day of the week. Easier install, more power handling, less noise, more room to mod, more reliable, cheaper, etc.

Sorry - I know you are excited. I dont want to bum you out - you will have fun. :p
I recommend hooking up trigger gears so you can BANG BANG BANG thru the gears. Now THAT was fun. I hit 50mph on mine (not video confirmed) but shortly thereafter blew the gear right off the shaft and had a very bad day.

-methods
 
If you are talking the external controller non-gearbox motor - hmmm... Bad news. It needs more reduction than the 8 tooth sprocket has, or keep the revs up something shocking (and dont expect to be able to pedal) - the motor will overheat if you keep it at a normal (human) pedalling cadence.

The integrated gearbox motors on 36V are OK, and 48V are too fast - need more reduction as well. Also make mincemeat of their gearboxes pretty early.
 
methods said:
I had the 1kw cyclone kit. Juiced it up to 100V 100A.

-methods


You have broken every frock motor you have owned too they suck as well?

I recall you were extremly happy when you first got the cyclone telling us all the changes were like F1
and you liked it more than a hub motor.

The 1200watt motors have no gearbox either they are the same motor as the old non-gearboxed
1000watt motors.

KiM
 
im hoping to mount it in the same place as my old motor. I didnt buy the whole kit just the 1200 watt motor and controller.
This will have a gearbox ? im not sure.
What sprocket does the motor come with ?
Because the one on my wheel is small i might need to change it ?
What kinda power transfer will i have with a 20 tooth rear sprocket ?

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360w cyclone on a feet forward Raleigh Gruv.
so very happy for several years. very reliable, lots of hill climbing power. good top speed, great range.
a little whirring noise.

d
 
AussieJester said:
You have broken every frock motor you have owned too they suck as well?

KiM

I have broken every 5305 motor I have ever owned and I think they suck.
However - I have never broken a single 9C motor and I love them. Even after taking one to over 200C on the case - it still works.

I did not say that all chain drive setups suck - I said the Cyclone sucks - and it does. If you dont believe me, go buy one and find out - but please spare me any homophobic jabs about hub motors. You like chain drive because you are more mechanically inclined. I like hub motors because I am more electronically inclined. Simple as that. I stated that my problems with the kit were likely due in part to a poor install.....

-methods
 
** Seperates methy and kim by the scruff** :lol: :lol:

02jze,

you will probably (as methy sais) be very happy with your cyclone, methy is a little more extreme with his setupd and of course if your going to ask miracles theres going to be let downs.
Run at the rated settings and a little more ;) you'll be fine.
You will probably need to do a little math to get the gearing right, but it shouldn't be too bad to mount where you plan.

D
 
Not surprised. The higher power cyclones look kinda iffy. They need some sort of gear reduction. If I was after that sort of power, I'd be doing the RC drive stuff. Geared stuff is always going to be more complex, I just think its worth the trade off in weigh savings and mechanical advantage.
 
Dont' touch the big motor cyclone or the 7 or 8teeth of those. noisy and need a better controller to work with them. Seriously i cannot stand too much noisy.. but the smaller motor is fine, 900watts or 1200watts, smaller motor. good for curising, hill climbing. top speed is fine with me 50km/h on my 24t and the rear wheel.

i agree with you methods!!

kentlim
 
I'll tell you now - you will have some major issues using the 1200W on that setup (ezip I assume, with the flip/flop hub). Its a 14 tooth freewheel - right? The easiest way for you to use this is to get a 25H pitch sprocket with a LOT of teeth + a freewheel - and a 25H sprocket with very few teeth for your motor.

3223 rpm (motor) 8T & 14T = 1.75:1 reduction = 1841.715 Rpm - in a 26" wheel (circumference = 2068mm assuming 26 X 1 3/8 tyre) - = ~2m per revolution = 3.6 Kilometres per minute = 216Kph. Yep, its not going to happen. You will smoke the motor or controller.

Cheap solution - get a 80 tooth 25H sprocket + matching freewheel from here... ($29 - comes with bonus wheel :)

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=94&products_id=810&osCsid=a1472f3da2c6bc94f74b220e3a7dd02b

Along with a 25H chain...

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=94&products_id=670&osCsid=a1472f3da2c6bc94f74b220e3a7dd02b

And a small 25H sprocket that supports a 12mm shaft. A 16T would do it well (with adequate meat for the hub), 13 is doable with the hub being bored to suit on a lathe.

http://www.smallparts.com.au/store/partslist/sprocketsrollerchainmetal/chainandsprockets/all/21/3/

Assuming a 13T sprocket to 80T reduction, this is 6.15:1 reduction, or 524rpm - more manageable - BUT - still damn fast - 1.048K per sec = 62Kph top speed. Possible. Good top speed, no bottom end though.

They do work well when you run them with extra reduction, through the gears. The standard reduction (on a cyclone setup) is 8 (motor) to 44 (chainwheel) - this gives a reduction of 1:5.5 = 586 rpm at the chainring. This is impossible to match by any human (top cadence for an athlete wont pass about 120 rpm).

From the chainring to the second chainring (which drives the cluster) 44T to 24T = 1.83:1 = 320 rpm

Assuming a decent cassette (12-34 cassette) - this equates to 1.416:1 Low gear = 225 rpm = 27 Kph and 1:2 High gear = 640 rpm = 76Kph

Your ultimate reduction range is 14.32:1 Low - 5.03:1 High. You will not get that comfortably in a single stage reduction - Assuming you wanted hill-climbing and a top speed of 45Kph (4500m / 60 / 2 = 375 rpm) and wanted to keep a single stage reduction and the stock 8T motor pulley with a 12.7mm pitch (bike chain).

This is a reduction of 8.6:1 - you would need a 70 tooth 12.7mm sprocket. This is 284mm in diameter - not small!

This is the reason most people run the internal gearbox cyclone setups - for your application, it would be ideal - they run a 9.3:1 gearbox already, so you have an output RPM of 270 rpm on a 14T sprocket. Fit your hub with a 22T freewheel (or 22T fixie - the motor has a freewheel) 1.57:1 = 172rpm = 20 Kph, or a 18T to get 1.286:1 = 210 rpm = 25Kph, or 16T 1.143:1 = 236 rpm = 28 Kph, or 14T to get 1:1 32Kph, or gear up the motor freewheel. The maths is easy.

If you want ~50 Kph = 417 rpm you would need 417/270 = 1:1.54 If your hub has a 14T (1) then your motor needs a 14 X 1.54T sprocket - 21.56 = 22 tooth.
A 22 will give you a no-load speed of 22:14 = 1:1.57 = 1.57 X 270 = 423 rpm = 50.868 Kph. Pretty much spot on.
 
i think the cyclone motors are pretty awesome considering their performance/ price.

they are simple mid drive kits that allow you to take advantage of your gears (which is why i chose it over a hub motor). if you don't use your regular gears than just get a hub motor cause it'll be simpler.

mounting the motor can be problematic, depending on the shape of your frame tubes. the clamps are just made to be generic so they don't fit so asymmetric tubes. i made some aluminum shims and reinforced the mount with extra hardware to get it stable.

i have the 900w kit @ 36V
max speed ~ 30mph (depends on you gearing)
max power ~ 2200W, which is about 3 hp! i have no idea why it's a "900W" kit. the controller is rated for 60amps and 24-48V. if it was a car engine it'd be given a max hp rating. *shrug

only mod i did was to replace the crank freewheel with the SBP heavy duty version.

the motor pulley runs @ ~370 rpm (after the internal gearbox)(as best as i could tell), so i wouldn't recommend running these kits without a gearset.
if a 26 inch wheel ran at 370 rpm that equals about 28mph. since the motors are only efficient in their upper ranges, you'll just burn out your controller/motor. it would be like running a car in 4th or 5th gear all the time.

i'm happy with my kit, esp after the adjustments i made. feels more solid now.
 
the easiest way would be to set up a mid drive + crank reduction like the cyclone 3piece freewheel crank kit...but then your bike would have some unused bits on it lol.

your next option would be to setup the motor in the current config for certain speed range.
for example: you could set it up for the 28mph max and use it only for 15 - 28 mph. just peddle up to speed. if you do this, never peddle at low speed or you'll burn out your motor.

or just set it up for the low end and peddle for high speed.
 
methods said:
I stated that my problems with the kit were likely due in part to a poor install.....

Do you have issues with the motor/controller or is your dislike more biased towards not the product but
the 'difficulty' in installation?

My friend uses a 1000watt setup i have ridden with him many times now it is bullet proof
I don't see any issues with the motor itself, the rest of the kit is questionable but the OP
has stated he has purchased only the motor and controller nothing more.

KiM

p.s what 'homophobic' jabs? apologies if i offended you was not my intention i think you know i value your
opinion and respect what you do.

p.s.s yes 02jze without working it out exactly i would guess you need a sprocket at least double the tooth count on the
wheel.
 
That would be the frock motor comments, some people have trouble with these I think...

If you have the 14 tooth sprocket, did you get the integrated gearbox version (ie. Black motor with square front)? The 1200W non-gearbox version is the one I thought you were talking about, but it comes with an 8 tooth sprocket.

If it is the internal gearbox version, then yes, you could use it like this, the 48V version has a higher RPM (roughly double) than the 24V version. It is well suited for your application - Using a 9.3:1 ratio in the box gives 270 X 2 = 540 rpm. 14:22 teeth is a reduction ratio of 1.57:1, so you get 343 RPM, giving (343rpm X 2(metres circumference) X 60(minutes) / 1000) = 41Kph. A good reduction for pleanty of torque to tackle hills. If you want more speed, reduce the number of teeth on the hub - next step down is 18 teeth.

If its the motor I think it is, you will be fine with your standard gearing - no smoke. Just pedal at the start before giving it a handfull of throttle.
 
heathyoung said:
That would be the frock motor comments, some people have trouble with these I think....

ooooh... lucky i didnt call him a F.A.G.S member (acronym for Frockmotor Advocacy Group Support.)then isn't it :mrgreen: I guess Patrick is getting a lil sensitive in his old age....sorry mate... I'll try to remember that in future, my silly Australian captain Kangaroo
backward Island living self is forgetful at times. :D

KiM
 
Yep - thats the integrated gearbox motor, so my comments above apply - It will work just fine BUT you need to make sure you get it spinning in the right direction (I assume that you figured this out already)
 
I specifically asked Paco month or so back if the 1200watt had
a gearbox on it he said it didnt, that motor looks like
it does though maybe they have changed them?? Whats the
story Heatyoung? Did they once come non-gearbox version
I was told all the cyclones except the 1200watt have gearboxes now
If this is the case that motor isn't a 1200watt it would seem? Looks
dam short for a 1200watt motor mates Cyclone 1000watt is HEAPS bigger.

KiM
 
Thats the 500W core with halls + temp sensor + phase wires brought to the outside - you just run it on a higher voltage, so higher RPM/power for the same current. This is the one that lunches the planetary gears if treated badly. I'd fill the box with a good moly grease for good measure...
 
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