Aprilia Enjoy

[Samd]

Aha! I get it!

I think that switch ultimately functions as on/off for a combination of 3 wires. Yeah, i reckon if it does you could wire it inline with the VM and go for it. Nothing ventured....

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day All,

Good news!!!! I have done 2 full 2 hour balance charges today and now onto the 3rd one.The low cell reading on cell 5, Pack A has risen from 4.00V up to 4.07V so I will keep doing it until I get it more balanced.What is an acceptable difference in voltage between the cells?

Cheers,
Tony.

[Hillhater]

TIP...
If you want to bring a single cell up to match others, you could just use the single cell (3.7v) setting on the charger, and connect the power cables to the one cell via the balance lead , then charge at 2 A monitoring closely. ( monitoring constantly) ...job done quick !
( dont do this if you are uncertain !)

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks HH,

This was mentioned a bit earlier but my skills aren't up to that level as yet.I will just keep plugging away the slow way.I just checked and the count of the low cell is now up to 4.10V.

Cheers,
Tony.

[gtadmin]

Keep going Tony ....

(You should get the cells to within 0.01V easily)

[tonyontopofabighill]

Okee dokee GT

[tonyontopofabighill]

HI All,

I finally got there.I have got both the packs cells' to within .01V of each other.It wasn't that difficult although I didn't sit there and watch them.I had it set up in the middle of my shed away from everything and the packs were in a fire bag.Above the equipment I had a smoke detector set up and a bucket of sand just in case.I probably balance charged the two backs all up about 10 times ( you must psychic GT)
I cannot wait for the next chance to go out for a ride and see how they end up after a bit of discharging.I have understood from reading that it is best to "break them in" gradually so I will do that.I will try and connect up the 12 Volt voltmeter as soon as possible too.
By the way my Accucel 8 is making a noise on starting from cold.I think it is the fan but I just give the charger a tap with my finger and it then runs a bit quieter.I guess it will only be a matter of time (sounds like the same problem as yours Sam).

Anyway I will keep you all posted.Thanks again Sam and GT for all your help.I wonder if there are others out there reading all this and giving it a go.I want to get another one of these little classic bikes ,cheaply, if I can so I can do the mods and have yet another bike (maybe one painted in Ferarri red perhaps).

CHeers,
Tony.

[gtadmin]

It's all good so far Tony Take an easy ride for about 5km, then just do a charge (not a balance charge) with the balance leads connected so you can monitor the cells. If they are more than 0.03V out, balance again. You should be right after that.

Not psychic, experienced


Cheers,
GT

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks GT,

Will do, it is a perfect day here just marred by having to work for a few hours.Then it is off down the cycleway.

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

Thx for the feedback Tony. Sounds like your charger is set to a 120 minute timer default from the factory. Now you have learnt to walk you may want to increase the time. Or turn it off altogether and charge at a lower amperage in a safe space as I do.

I definitely think the fan on the Accucel 8 is too small. My hobbyking cheaper copy turned up yesterday. It is 99% the same - even down to the sound the pitch of beep it makes. But for ten bucks less you get more - the 8s balance extension - this is extremely helpful for accessing the aprilia battery box when the leads only protrude about 20mm or so. But it has a much bigger fan, which i suspect will help on Aussie summer days. Time will tell if it is a durable unit.

One line of suspicion on the new charger. I did a balance charge on one of my 3 pack units with the new charger. So far I have balanced two packs. Both seem to have the the first seven cells within 0.01 after 2 months of hard riding. But the eighth cell about 0.06v lower than the other seven cells. Either a coincidence on both packs or the accuracy of the balance unit may not be so great. I still have another pack in that battery case to test. And then another three in my other battery. So I will find out soon enough.

I bought some cheap chinese plug in cell meters on ebay for about three bucks each and the accuracy was so consistently poor it wasnt funny. I definitely need to try one of the cell-log thingies GT. Or buy a decent voltmeter so I can consistently test at least.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

Can you give me the details of the new charger you just got.I think mine is on the way out.I did a charge early this morning and the fan just came on intermittently the whole time.It would only run for a second or two and then stop/restart etc.It was fairly cool here this morning so maybe that was it.
I have had a ride each day and I just LOVE riding these bikes with the new battery.I set up the 12 Volt meter into the old Aprilia LED box(same as you Sam) and I wired it into the throttle wires as they were the easiest to get at without having to perform major sergery.It comes on with the ignition and I am happy for it to stay on all the time so I can keep an eye on things.
I have done 3 full charges and will check the balance again on next charge.
What is the go with the old Aprilia charger 3 pin cable.I have got a spare so I can cut it off the charger and connect it up to the Accucel 8.Do I just use two wires and wire into the Positive and Negative on the battery?

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

Another for sale in Manly, 600 bucks asking.
http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/bicycles ... /102037979

[tonyontopofabighill]

HI All,

I have been riding each day,sometimes twice and I recently attached an odometer/speed/distance computer thingy so I now know my distance etc.
The ride I like to do is 12 klms return trip.I am using on average 8700mAh (not sure if that is the correct term)
Anyway it is about 75% of my 2 batteries 1160mAh(again not usre if that is the correct way to put it) capacity.
I did a balance charge today and I am happy to say that the 16 cells are all exactly the same so I will just continue charging the 2 battery packs as one big one.
I think I will buy the extra 8s square shaped lipo in the not too distant future so I can extend my distance with a bit more capacity to spare.
Has anyone got an idea how I can use the old Aprilia 3 pin connector off the old NMH charger to plug into the new battery to charge it that way rahter than having to put the alligator clips onto the battery terminals.It woould make life a lot easier.I cut the 3 pin cord off the old charger and it has several wires in its core.I was hoping just to see a red and black wire and that would have made it easy.
Cheers,
Tony

By the way I am off to Sydeny in a couple of weeks and may have a look at the bike in Manly.I have been in touch with the owner and they say that the bike is working fine (DOH!) as it has been serviced regularly by Aprilia in Brookvale.

[Samd]

Gday Tony,
there is probably a convention on which of the 3 pins are pos/neg/other. But it doesn't matter if you are consistent. It's up to you.

But you can pretty much wire it up inside the pack and into the plug any way you like - as long as you connect the pos/neg to the male plug and follow it thru (on paper or in your mind) the female plug into the pack keeping track of where it joins into the pack you'll be ok.

A bit like tracing a line for each thru the charger leads, plug, and into the female plug, then wire it to the battery appropriate pos or neg inside the pack.

By following it thru and sticking to first principles you cannot go wrong.

Best to make sure that the fuse is also acting on this line too - or use a new fuse.

Let me know if this is gibberish and I will draw it up for you....

[Hillhater]

Tony,
you could use the Aprilia 3 pin, its simple enough use the RED ( +VE) and Black(-ve) wired pins
The 3rd (center pin, white wire) was just a Thermister connection.
Or you could simply use any 2 pin connector that matches the charger connector.
Do you have the workshop manual ? ..This is the wiring diagram

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks HH and Samd,

I'll give it a go in the next couple of days.

Thanks,
Tony

[tonyontopofabighill]

HI All,

Houston, we have a problem.
I went for a slightly longer ride this morning.It was about 15 klms with pedalling and a bit of bludging but lots of hills.I think I recall seeing the voltage whilst coming up my big hill go down to 28 volts.When I got home I let it cool down and set about connecting up the 3 pin charger lead from the old Aprilia charger.I put in another bullet connector to the Positive side of the battery and another bullet connector to the Negative side of the battery did the same to the 2 pin connector.I did this so I could disconnect this lead when splitting the pack to do a balance charge.I disregarded the third pin on the lead.II put another fuse inline from the accucel 8 lead that connects to the lipo batteries.I was pretty happy with the job until I connected it all up and then plugged in the new 2 pin lead to the lipos.When I turned the power supply on , the blue screen came up on the accucel as per normal and then I put in lipo charge and then I noticed that the Accucel was only detecting 7SER instead of 8SER.It was showing up 8SER on my side of the screen.Obviously I did not hit the enter button to start charging but turned it all off to check things??????? I decided to disconnect one of the batteries and just have the one connected.This made no difference to the reading.I then disconnected that battery and connected the other one,still no change.I then connected the balance leads and tried a balance charge to both batteries but same thing????
I decided to undo what I had done with the 2 plug lead and go back to the original alligator clips and that made no change either.I had a look at the manual and it said something to the effect that if the battery has been discharged quite a bit then the Accucel can sometimes make an error in it's cell count?

What do you guys make of this? Hopefully it is a simple problem.Surely I haven't ruined a cell on each of my two batteries.

HELP

Tony.

[Samd]

Hmm, not sure what to think.

I never go below 29.7 volts, thats when the batteries begin to cop a beating. They say 3.3 volts per cell (26.4) is when you really get problems.

Have you put a multimeter over each the batteries to see what their resting voltage is now? If its ok then your charger is confused.

I think there is stuff in the manual to show what to do when the charger picks the wrong voltage. Do you have the manual - do you need a link to an online one?

Cheers.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

Thanks for replying mate.I just put the battery into the bike to check the voltage with the voltmeter in the bike.I did it twice with each battery connected separately.Both packs are reading 29.8 Volts.Remember I didn't charge them when I got home yesterday from the ride.Is that good news? That would mean that there is 8 cells at about 3.7Volts a piece? I have got a manual but will read again to find what you mentioned.
What would happen if I ignored the 7SER versus my 8SER and pressed the start button? I am not about to do that of course if it is not safe to do so.I have watched the videos of these things catching fire and the thought of 8 cells going off doesn't appeal much to my wanting to remain in one piece philosophy on life.If necessary I would rather buy 3 new batteries and have some more amps in reserve.

Thanks Sam,

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

It's your call, you'll have to make your own decision.

I think you could effectively charge it as a "LiLo" battery which uses the same program but does everything 0.1volt per cell lower. Then you could go back to charging as a LiPo.

If it were me I would go into the 'user set program' screens and change the lipo voltage from 3.7V to 3.6V and restart the charge. I know some folks who charge this way all the time.

This might be enough to get it started as the 8s setting is looking for a minimum voltage that you are just a small whisker below. So I'd so a full bulk charge on each then a balance charge to see if any particular cell is 'RS' - but unlikely from your reasoning above in an earlier post.

If you are worried about 'letting the magic smoke out of them' perhaps set them up outside in a safe area free from moisture or heat risks.

Here's another thread I found that suggests charging them as 7s for a bit to get the voltage up, then go back to 8s:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=33499

It's a fair bet that if your packs are that low at rest you really did overdo it under load. You''ll need to gear back and climb that hill of yours a bit slower! But it's fair to assume that you didn't (maybe) go below 3.3V per cell, so there's a good chance you'll get back on track.

Here's the accucel "copy" charger I use:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _acc_.html

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks Sam,

I have put it outside in a lipo fire bag with the smoke detector set just above it.I put it into LILO mode and it read it as 8SER so I hit the charge button and so far so good.I am just doing one battery at a time.I will let you know how I go.I think I remember reading that GT charges on the LILO setting.

Cheers,
Tony.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

It all looks OK.I managed to get both packs charged up to 32.8V.I then put them individually onto a LILO balance charge and all the cells were between 4.07V and 4.10V but most were 4.09V.I did a quick LILO balance charge on each pack and they all ended up on 4.09V except for a 4.10V.So far it sounds like a good result.I then tried my new 2 pin charging lead and it is working as well! and showing 8SER on the left and the right doing a battery check.I will go for a ride tomorrow but just the shorter 6 Klm trip and take it a bit easier on the hill and I will watch the voltmeter on the way up the big hill.
I guess I have learnt some more about batteries and lipo's that is for sure.
Thanks again Sam.

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

Thats great news.

Perhaps the contact on the two pin charger dropped a fraction of a volt off, enough to tip it low enough to look like a 7s pack.

Hey - if you think you've now got bulk charging and 'separate pack' balance charging under your belt, there is still a little to learn (as I just found out). Don't worry about this next bit if it's too soon. But I think it will save me a lot of time, cos I run three packs in parallel, and they are a bit of a pain to disconnect and balance charge in turn.

You can set up your pack to balance charge your whole pack without separating the cells first. I've just been researching this - didn't realise it. Makes good sense.

The way it works is that you balance each pack seperately (two or more) to get everything to about equal before connecting them up in parallel. This stops a sudden rush of current between cells when connecting the packs in parallel for the first time - see link below (you wouldn't connect a 50% charged pack with a 100% charged pack for instance). Then you connect the same pins of each of your balance cables. This means that if you have two packs, 'cell one' on each pack will equalise, 'cell two' will equalise, etc for each in turn. Then you reconnect and balance charge the whole unit.

So next time you go to balance charge, you only connect one balance cable. It'll take twice as long to balance charge for a 2 pack battery, but you won't have to disconnect separate packs anymore.

Think I am going to build a three into one balance harness that will allow me to bring one balance plug out of the battery box next to the 3 pin bulk charging plug, so I don't have to keep taking my box apart to balance charge every 6 weeks...
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/parallel ... rging.html

Hope this didn't confuse you...

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

I think I follow most of that.I think I also read that GT has his balance leads connected in parallel.Are you there GT???
I have been splitting my pack to do the balancing and I have to say that with the cordless scre driver it is 6 screws and it is apart ( I could get a job in the pits) but I do agree it is a pain to separate the pack so this sounds like another good idea of yours Sam.I think I will order the square battery pack soon so I will have the extra capacity.I just got another one of those little 12 Volt meters for my other bike to put into the old LED meter.This one is blue instead of red.I am also thinking that I would like to put in a Nu Vinci hub gear box down the track.I have had a few hassles with the Shimano gears and cassettes on both bikes as I have done a stack of clicks between both bikes.

Cheers,
Tony.

[gtadmin]

Hi guys, been away on something else for a coupla days

...
I think I remember reading that GT charges on the LILO setting.

Cheers,
Tony.

Yes, I only use the LiLo setting now - it extends the life of the pack if you only charge to 4.1V and discharge to 3.8V. Obviously, you need to have the battery capacity to stay within these limits.

G'day Sam,

I think I follow most of that.I think I also read that GT has his balance leads connected in parallel.Are you there GT???
I have been splitting my pack to do the balancing and I have to say that with the cordless scre driver it is 6 screws and it is apart ( I could get a job in the pits) but I do agree it is a pain to separate the pack so this sounds like another good idea of yours Sam.I think I will order the square battery pack soon so I will have the extra capacity.I just got another one of those little 12 Volt meters for my other bike to put into the old LED meter.This one is blue instead of red.I am also thinking that I would like to put in a Nu Vinci hub gear box down the track.I have had a few hassles with the Shimano gears and cassettes on both bikes as I have done a stack of clicks between both bikes.

Cheers,
Tony.

I'm here now I read Sam's and then this and went "huh???" I have only once separated my pack to charge (whether a balance or bulk) and that was when I left the CellLogs connected for an extended period which threw my pack way out of balance.

Once you have the discharge leads connected in parallel and all the balance leads in parallel, you just treat it as one, BIG battery This is a piccie of the battery setup for my cruiser - about the middle of the first piccie you can see how I've paralleled the balance leads

Glad you recovered your pack

GT