Schwinn Spoiler---Now with 1200w Cyclone Motor

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Schwinn Spoiler---Now with 1200w Cyclone Motor

Postby TopCat » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:41 am

Hi everyone, been browsing this fourm for a while but this is my first post.

Im presently awaiting delivery of a Schwinn Spoiler Chopper bike....

Image

Once it arrives and I give it the once over, I plan on restoring it - A paint job Black Bike Gold wheels - Get the forks rechromed etc.
I eventually plan on fitting some type of electric motor to it but Im not sure which type of motor would be best for this project?
Iv'e looked at cyclon motors but have read reviews by some, that they are poorly contructed and have weak components? I have also thought about RC motors but am nonplussed by type size etc and all the technology that acompanies them. Volts - Watts - Amps etc are all greek to me, Its something I just cant get my head around.

The furthest Iv'e got with putting a motor on anything is my pushtrailer that I built a few months ago, you can read about the build here...
http://motorbicycling.com/f9/bosscats-push-trailer-16616.html#post162318

Im just wondering if anyone on the forums has put a motor on a spoiler? Any help or suggestions would be greatful.

Regards
Tom
Last edited by TopCat on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby spinningmagnets » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:28 pm

Welcome TopCat! you may want to shrink the pic down to 600 wide (or slightly less), and re-post it. There are several electric cruisers here.

Image

What kind of top speed do you want? What is your budget?

PS you've been added to the "push trailer" thread...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9855
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby AussieJester » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:09 am

LoL i have a 32' PC Monitor and i cant see mor than the rear wheel of the pic ....

I seen plenty of those schwins with motors on them, sit down and read through some of the stickies you will soon be up to speed...

Welcome to ES...

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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:57 am

Hi guys,
Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for adding me to the push trailer thread spinningmagnets. I fixed the photo to a smaller one.

spinningmagnets wrote:What kind of top speed do you want? What is your budget?



Speed...
Thats kind of a difficult one to answer! Would I like to be a sprinter or a marathon runner - Speed or Range? I think somewhere in between would suit, but the UK law states that you may only run an electric bicycle....

(Basic uk regulations state that the bicycle must be ridden by someone of at least 14 years of age. Electric bicycles in the UK must not contain a motor of power exceeding 250watts. The bicycle must also be restricted to 15 miles per hour (24 km/h).

Probably around 30mph, i'll just have to keep a beady eye out for for any for any cars with blue flashing lights on top :mrgreen:

Budget...
Thats another tricky one, due to the nature of my work (Steel Fixer - contract work) im sometimes rolling in it and at other times im robbing from peter to pay paul!
I'd probably end up buying bits and pieces at a time like I did with my push trailer and building up as I go.

AussieJester wrote:I seen plenty of those schwins with motors on them, sit down and read through some of the stickies you will soon be up to speed...


Iv'e browsed around the fourms and the net and haven't seem many motorised spoilers. Most of the ones I have seen have had moped/strimmer/weed wacker motors on them, the only one that I have seen with an electric motor on was on this site...

http://fotki.lv/lv/cameras/Panasonic/DMC-FZ4/

Image
Done by some Russian guy I think? He looks to have done a nice job on it, though this is a hub motor.

As for browsing the stickies, iv'e already browsed upteen threads and they made my head spin faster than any of your fancy motors :lol:

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby spinningmagnets » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:00 pm

What is the outer diameter (OD) of the rubber tire on the rear? Theres a chart that shows what wheel-RPM will provide the target top-speed, and then from there you can start to calculate pulley/sprocket diameters/tooth-counts to arrive at a motor RPM.

Still many choices at that point. Which motor? which winding to provide top-RPM goal at which voltage?

2-stage reduction with a higher kV (RPM-per-volt) which would be a high-RPM belt to a jackshaft, and then a lower-RPM chain to the wheel...or,... a single stage chain from motor to wheel with a lower kV?

Heat is the killer, mostly more controller deaths than motors. Good general rule is use the highest volts that are cost-effective/convenient for your budget, and the least amount of amps to accomplish your acceleration goals. (I apologize if I'm re-hashing things you already know...)
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:10 pm

spinningmagnets wrote: (I apologize if I'm re-hashing things you already know...)


No your fine, you just lost me after.....

Re: Schwinn Spoiler
New post by spinningmagnets » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:00 pm :mrgreen:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the outer diameter (OD) of the rubber tire on the rear?
Dont know the tyre size or what room I have to play with motor wise-(looks at lot) As the bike wont arrive until 16th or 19th of this month. Once it arrives I can start mesuring up.

Regards
Tom

PS... Tyre update... 20 X 4 3/4
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:20 pm

My Spoiler arrived last friday. Over the past week I have had it around to my mates a few times:- Clean up the rusty forks (some parts were pitted quite bad) I think it'll cost to much to have them rechrome so I may buff them back to bare metal and paint them black. I also had the handlebars cleaned up but I have since put a pair of minimoto bars on that I had laying around.

BEFORE.

Image

Yesterday I had my mate Peter (he does all my welding) cut off the top of the small sissybar and weld a couple of extensions on, its looking ok but I may have to alter the angle a bit? we'll see how it looks once I get a back rest made up for it.

AFTER.

Image

Today I cut up some angle iron and made up a tow frame which I took around to my mate Peter's to get him to weld it up. Back home I added some paint, bolted on my towball, hooked up my push trailer (no batteries, there on recharge) and took it for a quick spin around the block, It handled ok. I try out the motor on my trailer tomorrow once I hook up all the wiring and recharge the batteries.

SPOILER & TRAILER.

Image

At the moment im doing everything I can on the cheap to kinda tidy it up a bit. I plan on an all black bike with gold wheel rims. Im waiting on some gold braided brake cable coming. I have a few other bits n' pieces picked out in gold, I'll also paint the trailer lid gold.

As i say all is on the cheap at the moment until some work comes in but that may be a while in coming, the reason being one of my best mates who I work with (he reads the drawings on the jobs) fell down the stairs at home and banged his head on the wall at the bottom, he's now laying in hospital paralized from the neck down :( Were all hoping he'll recover but doctors say he will never walk again.

Once I get some £ $ rolling in i'll invest in one of those RC motors. I'll probably be asking thousands on questions about the motor/batteries and all thats involved? Also need to ask about gear ratios and the like as all this stuff is way over my head :roll:

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:49 am

As I have a little 24V 180Watt motor off a kiddie scooter I thought I'd try it hooked up to my spoiler. I just bolted it onto the side of my towbar arrangement hooked up the 24V controller and two batts. The little motor hauled me along but not at any great speed - I could probably walk faster. After blowing the 24V controller - when a wire hit my frame I thought bugger this and decided that I'd take the 36V 500Watt motor and 36V 800Watt controller off my push trailer and try that on my bike.

So it was off round to my mates and get him to weld up a make shift frame to hold the motor. I sent off for a 54 tooth midimoto sprocket 8mm.
Over the past week or so I/we'v tried varoius ways to mount the motor but have had to settle on under the makeshift frame as its the only place able to mount it with the length of chain that I have on hand - (I did plan to mount the motor on top of the frame).
After a few trial runs I found that the chain kept slipping off :evil: so I made up a chain tensioner, chain still came off?
Yesterday around at my mates I filed the bolt holes in the frame to allow the motor to slide over a little hoping this would line up the chain a little better. My mate fashioned another chain tensioner and welded it to the frame. (no pics of chain tensioner). I have not fully tested the bike with the new (made up) chain tensioner? Knowing the way my luck runs something will ...... well thats another story :roll:

Image
Image
Image

Ok its not going to win any beauty contests and the three 12V 17amp batts make it a heavy brute to peddal but its the best I can come up with at the moment with what I have available.

I know what your all thinking/going to say! Why didn't you stick the motor in that big gap between the seat post and rear wheel - (its crying out for a motor). Well the motor is sligthly to big length wise and interfers with the chain. I'd ldeally like to stick an RC motor in there once I can afford one and all the gubbings that go with it.
For the moment I'll just have to settle with what I have but 36V worth of lighter batteries would be a start to lighten this heavy bike.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby RallySTX » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:14 am

Well whoever it was hid it well. I tried for over an hour to find that battery box online but no go for me either. :oops:
Pretty tough when even a pc tech can't find it!
I been looking into makin a pack with these.

http://stores.headway-headquarters.com/ ... Detail.bok

I'll just use a frame bag.
Brian L.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:20 pm

I finally got some cash together to buy some new batterys, someone suggested I get these batterys and charger...

Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C

Image

iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger

Image

Im diving in at the deep end here as I have never had any of these batts before and I thought I'd best ask a few questions before I go blowing myself up.

I will need to get 2 of these batts and wire them up in series to make up a 36V pack to power my 36V 500Watt motor. I need to know what type/gauge of wire is on these batts so I can get the same type. Also some connectors to cobble it all together, as looking at the batts I dont know if those red plugs are male or female.

Is there a simple link/thread to battery wiring/cobbling :?:

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby AussieJester » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:45 pm

You will need more than two to get any sort of range Topcat...2 will only give you 36v 5ah i would suggest bar minimum 6 of them
so you get 36 volt 15ah and alot more reading in the battery section on the thread "The care and feeding of Lipo" before even thinking about purchasing them. I would suggest visiting the link in my signature (GGoodrums site) after you have done some more reading and buying some of the items there to help make your pack, monitor it and charge it. Over charging and undercharging lipo can be very dangerous you need to be aware of the dos and don'ts... They ain't like the SLas you been using, do it right and these are the best battery going, do it wrong and you could have a nasty fire on your hands.
Please don't let any of this put you off, its not hard you just need to know the specifics, no need to over complicate the whole deal with mulitple connections for charging and discharging or using multiple rc chargers to charge, you can construct a pack very easily that can be charged without any
unplugging and reconfiguring of the packs...

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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:17 pm

Just goes to show the old saying (Things come to those who wait) is true. I spent months looking for the right set of handlebars without any luck then last week out of the blue a pair popped up on ebay.

Western Handlebars 12" Rise 30" Width. New
£4.99
£4.41 Postage.

At that price I couldn't press the confirm bid fast enough. :D They arrived during the week so I spent some time today fitting them along with my new seat that arrived last week.

Handlebars.
Haven't fitted the rear brake as my sprocket takes the place of the disc rotor. I'll need to get a sprocket adaptor so I can add both sprocket and rotor.
Image

Seat.
Im wondering if i'll develope a flame pattern on my butt sitting on this for any length of time. :mrgreen:
Image

I also added my gold braided brake cable and rigged up my 2 into 1 front brake(s) pull system. I had already made a caliper bracket that holds the left caliper at the bottom but after buying 203 gold buzzsaw rotors the caliper didn't fit. I made up another bracket that holds the caliper on top. Not sure if I like the brake sitting like that (to much cable sticking out, and pulling the wrong way) I may make another bracket and change it back to the bottom.

Left Brake Before...
Image
Left Brake (temp) After...
Image

All the wiring (Throttle/brake light cable(s)/front light) are sitting a little haphazard at the moment as with adding the higher bars i'll need to extend all the cables.
I cant get a chance to test ride as theres still hard packed icey snow in my area :cry:

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby AussieJester » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:24 pm

Image

^^you were on the right track this way IMO just shorten the cable some and your good to go ;-)

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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby SoSauty » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:14 pm

Hello Topcat,

Potential for a handsome spoiler there :!: If you're running less than 1200Watts, look at a LiFePo4 batt, a tad bigger, yet simpler and may take more charge cycles. Check your PM, wonder what shipment to Scotland would be?

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-36V-LiFePO4-Battery-Packs/Categories
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby RallySTX » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:36 am

I don't know how that poor tire can handle all the stopping power you must have with dual 203mm rotors. I have all the brake I need for now with one rear 180mm. All I plan to do is integrate both front and rear with a dual pull lever from Choppers US. Looks like a lot of work there though. Good job! I am very fond of that pic with the battery and charger. Kim has it on the head there about the need for extra cells. And you should paralell them for range AH forst, then series the packs for the voltage you want. Meaning, with 5 AH packs, you need to take three side by side with positives together, and negatives together for the range. Then take the master positive from that set, and connect it to the negative of another identical set to double the voltage. You take the negative from the first set and add it to positive of the second set to complete the circuit. This then is a 2s3p pack. Simply continue adding sets until you get the voltage you need. Right guys? There's more to it, but I think that will get you arround the basic idea of how to build a pack that will power a bike. I personally would go for 20AH, at least. And pump the volts to 70. That requires special wire arrangement, and a high output controller. I hope I didn't just blow someone up! Cheers
Brian L.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:44 am

Hi Guy's,
Anyone know where I can get hold of that thin 3 core wire thats used on electric throttles? I'd like to renew my throttle wire and do away with all the taped up extensions that I have.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby amberwolf » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:50 am

If you have an old USB cable that's long enough for your purposes, you could cut the ends off and use it's wire. There usually are 5 insulated conductors in there, plus a shield wire that's not usually insulated separately. Typically the wires are thinner than the original throttle wires, but there's no real current being carried in them so it doesnt' really matter.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:23 am

Cheers AW,
I do have a couple of usb cables laying around and this is a possibility. Iv'e just seen Jeremy Harris post a link in the thread...
10AWG vs 12AWG.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23255&start=15

and may have found a 3 core wire that will do the job?

http://www.technobotsonline.com/multicore-3-core.html

Im also toying with the idea of drilling my handlebars and threading all my cables inside.
Left..................................................Right.
2 core cable brake lights (rear)...................2 core cable brake lights (rear).
7 core cable - lights/horn/indicators............3 core throttle cable.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby amberwolf » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:40 pm

I've done the drilllng-bars thing on DayGlo Avenger back when I did the first friction drives on it (although nothing on it is run that way now); I was going to drill the frame to run all the wires thru it too but after reading about various aluminum frame problems I decided not to. :)
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby RallySTX » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:00 pm

I don't know if I would go to all the trouble of drilling the bars for such a short run, but hey whatever works. You can pull the plastic rear brake cabke inserts out of the frame for extra room for wire. I like the stainless steel tubing or colored housings for customising the plumbing. Happy Holidays.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:31 pm

RallySTX wrote:I don't know if I would go to all the trouble of drilling the bars for such a short run, but hey whatever works. You can pull the plastic rear brake cabke inserts out of the frame for extra room for wire. I like the stainless steel tubing or colored housings for customising the plumbing. Happy Holidays.
Brian L.


I plan on running all my electrical cables throught the handlebars and frame. Makes the bike look neater. If its the gold braded brake cable your refering to? I got a 25ft roll of it of ebay...

Image

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MTB-Road-Bike-Gold-Braided-Brake-Cable-Housing-/350420823936?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5196b56f80

A few things arrived in the post last week, one thing being my backrest cover...
Image
Im now fabbing up a backrest to slip it over.

Bah Humbug. :D
Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby RallySTX » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:41 pm

I understand the neatness, and custom aspect. I wasn't trying to discourage you. I believe Choppers US.com has more colors available for cables. But yes, that's what I was on about. See ya Grinch. I knew there had to be some green in ya!
Brian L.
OOps almost forgot, nice seat cover!
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2005 Schwinn Stingray Spoiler
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby Alster370 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:19 pm

Love the handlebars TopCat, very nice look to them.
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby TopCat » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Hi guy's,

Hope you all had a good xmas n' newyear.
Now that all the revelry is over, its back to the serious business of bike building. Not to much of an update on my build as the weather here in Scotland is still kinda bad. You just get to thinking - Thats the last iv'e seen of the snow shovel for a while! ...then it starts again :roll: My bike is tarped up in the back yard and under 3 feet of snow :(

The good news. A couple of parcels arrived yesterday, one from Sosauty containing 2 sprockets and a tophat adapter, thanks Will. :wink: Though it looks like i'll have to either trimout the adapter and sprockets or grind down the hub a little to get them to fit. Shouldn't be to much of a problem.
The second parcel was a couple of Turnigy 5000mAh 5S 25C batteries from HK's German warehouse. Quite a qiuck delivery for those living in the UK, much faster than that sloooow boat from china, that is still on its way with my charger/wire and connectors, that set off almost a month ago. :roll:
When I opened up the box I couldn't believe how small and light these lipos are! ....its not until you can feel them in your hands that you realise there size and weight.
I did a little check with a multimeter and get a reading of - 16.5v on one batt and 19.3v on the other?
As im a lipo virgin im curious if this sounds like a duff battery? - 19.3v from an 18.5v battery :shock:


Regards
Tom
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Re: Schwinn Spoiler

Postby AussieJester » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:14 pm

TopCat wrote:As im a lipo virgin im curious if this sounds like a duff battery? - 19.3v from an 18.5v battery :shock:


Hot off the charger they will be 21v (4.20v a cell)
HK usually ship them at 3.8v a cell...

KiM
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