Bike E with currie mid drive

[wildharemtbkr]

Hello, I have been browsing for quite a while, got here from matt's original recumbent build, and been watching ever since. I want one of his drives, but things have been tight, so I went ahead with this for the time being. I want a full suspension mountain bike also, but this was easier, and less costly for now. It is a Bike E AT. It is a compact long wheelbase recumbent, with rear suspension. The mid drive is similar to an ecospeed, but without the $$$$ ( way costly) I bought the Bike E for $200 and I bought a currie folding bike for $50, turns out the motor controller which is inside the motor was bad, I removed the drive, built a mount and added it to the bottom of my Bike E, welded 2 bb cups together, threaded on a freewheel and welded on a sprocket and threaded it to the drive. Added a chain and that was done. The motor I got from a schwinn s-350 scooter, along with the throttle and the lame controller 24v 30a. The batteries came from the currie. So far a whopping $250 not to bad, but its not that great cause of the lame items. (weak batteries, controller, 350w motor). The motor "sees" all 21 gears and the pedals freewheel when the motor is running, the motor freewheels with just pedaling, the drag is a lttle more than I would have liked because the #25 chain turns, the one way bearing is on the planetary gear output. I like the recumbent and the electric has potential. It is a little noisier than I wanted, I think from the planetary, but I can live with that. So what are the best ways to improve it for more speed and better range? I think the batteries are 1st?

[wildharemtbkr]

Heres a pic

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[wildharemtbkr]

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[wildharemtbkr]

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The seat needs recovered. I'll get to that one day. I have another seat, but the people I bought the bike from said it wasn't very comfy.

[wildharemtbkr]

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there is a left hand thread and a right hand thread bb cup welded back to back. a 16 tooth freewheel on the right hand thread, then the sprocket is welded on. The left hand threads into the currie unit where it used to thread to the hub. The sprocket is 21 teeth so there is about a 30% step up in gear range, for the pedals.

[wildharemtbkr]

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The left side. The scooter motor was already stepped down to 8mm, ground a flat on it and it fit right into the planetary gear. Reversed the leads to make it spin the correct direction.

[wildharemtbkr]

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Here is an underside view. I need a few new chains. The angle aluminum is attached to existing holes in the frame, I had to make 1 new hole.

[spinningmagnets]

Is the motor brushed, or brushless? If it provides the same amount of power in both directions, the brushes (or hall sensors if its brushless) are neutrally timed. Sometimes motors have the timing slightly advanced in one direction for a small increase of power, but they then perform poorly (if at all) in the other direction.

I think the set-up is well-done. What is the performance, and is there some part of its performance that you're disappointed in?

[zap]

Nice job!

If you still have the motor from the folder, you can bypass the built in controller and use an external controller if all that's wrong is the controller... they're actually pretty good motors and almost a sure bet that it's a better motor than the one from the scooter.

Chances are the folder is(was) a brushless and the scooter is brushed.
You can also try overvolting the scooter's controller to 36v. Some work some don't... the one's that won't work at 36v will usually work at 30v.

I'm not quite certain how you hooked the scooter's motor in but the original "silver can" that came on the Currie was good for about 13-14mph on a 20" wheel @ 24v.

[wildharemtbkr]

The motor is brushed. I read somewhere about the different direction not having the same power. I wanted to get it going so I did it. The batteries are not that great. They are 12v 7ah sla, that I thought were dead so I chucked them aside, till the other day I threw them on the charger so I could ride. No range at all few miles only. I did find another battery from a different scooter that was good, so I hooked it up also, for 36v helped a lot!! I didn't think the 24v controller would take 36v? The other motor is the silver can brushless, the controller popped a cap I think, there is a bunch of crap (potting?) in there so I cant get to anything. The speed is ok on 36v with pedalling assist. There is one problem, I welded the cups just so slightly off, at speed it causes the bike to shake!! or I have a tire out of balance one of the two. The performance for what it is is quite good. I would like a 20-30 mile range though! I have been watching Matt's builds and so my expectations are way higher!

[wildharemtbkr]

I used the currie reduction and hooked the scooter motor just like the silver can. The whole unit off the folder drives the chain, and therefore all the gears, 7 speed cog 3 speed hub. In low gear it has tons of torque, tops out at about (total guess) 6 mph. It is geared higher than the motor will pull, even with pedaling, about 40 I would guess

[zap]

The other motor is the silver can brushless, the controller popped a cap I think, there is a bunch of crap (potting?) in there so I cant get to anything.

A little info from the power-assist group on yahoo... a fairly old thread
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/64460

Hi

Tim at powerpackmotors is a good place to get the controller from, he
is a very reasonable guy and will ship them cheaply as well, my
controller has been working great for over a year running daily at 48V
hasnt missed a beat.

You cant repair the potted controllers, once they go, they go, its not
hard to remove the controller if you follow my instructions, the 20A
controller is nice and small you could bolt that to the outside of the
motor lid its so small, the 35A controller is a little bigger, you
should find space for it somewhere.

If you keep the volts down to 48 and the current at 35A it is a great
mix of power and performance, I upped the volts to 60V for a week but
it was too much and the rotor magnet cracked in half, so I keep the
power down on them, 48V on your bike would be good for 30mph.

As far as the cyclone motors go, you can also do the same to them,
Tony from electrodrive has connected a xlyte controller to one of them
and was also looking at an adaptor to mate a Kol or BMC to one of them.

The little KOL motor is great above 24V, if you are sticking to the
28V battery you cant use the 36-72V controller because of the LV cut
off, Tim stocks the 24-48V controllers, it is possible to run these
controllers at 72V as well however Tim does not warranty that.

The Kol is a great motor you would do well to stick with it, however
you will be amazed just how much more fun you can have even if you
drop in just 12 more volts. If you need anymore help on how to do it
including wiring diagrams etc just drop me a line.

Cheers

Knoxie

Knoxie is a member here, he might see this thread or you might pm him.

[wildharemtbkr]

Thanks Zap! I have searched the web a few times trying to find out how to fix these. It looks like a good little motor. If it will go 30 without gears it will rip with my geared setup! 1680 watts thats more like it! I have been debating whether to fix it or go with an rc motor. I was thinking this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... -170_t.jpg . The controller becomes an issue though. I keep thinking the little currie is as good or better. I will cook it and get it going!
By the way I like your little trailer. You don't still happen to have the fabric do you? I built a mount to tow my Burley Delite, for my kids. The fabric is trashed though, the sun here kills them!! I welded up a little mount bolted it to the swing arm, removed the adapter from the trailer, and use the little bolt to hook it together quickly and easily. I have one on my other bike E also (they are different). It does perform fairly decent. I need some ways to monitor it! I don't even own a multimeter at the moment.
Tims website said he is fishing. I will try the # tomorrow. Thanks for the info. How do you like the folders? I thought they were decent, never tried it with electric though. I like the Bike E better.
I towed the trailer a little yesterday with a couple car batteries in it, but it wasn't worth the weight. I tried it today with the lighter batteries and the kids but I didn't charge them so it wasn't great.
So which batteries are better the zippy flightmax or the turnigy? Should I go 37v(5s) or 44.4(6s)? I was thinking 10ah is that enough? What is the best way to charge them? Cheap and fast? Light enough to carry. I would like to ride 20 miles charge in 2 hours and ride 20 miles again, is it doable?

[wildharemtbkr]

I really would like it to freewheel while peddling, without the #25 chain spinning, any ideas?

[zap]

I really would like it to freewheel while peddling, without the #25 chain spinning, any ideas?

I suppose you could fabricate a freewheel... have a look at this thread for a few ideas maybe? http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=17602

By the way I like your little trailer. You don't still happen to have the fabric do you? I built a mount to tow my Burley Delite, for my kids. The fabric is trashed though, the sun here kills them!!

Thanks, I'm glad you like the trailer. That trailer had already been converted to a flatbed when I bought it and the fabric was long gone. The gal I bought it from was using it as a garden cart and everything from the frame up had been cut off and they had slapped a piece of aluminum diamond plate on it.
The sun here kills a lot of stuff too.
I've seen a few people selling just the fabric for the Burleys on craigslist before... usually after they do a cargo conversion.

Tims website said he is fishing. I will try the # tomorrow. Thanks for the info. How do you like the folders? I thought they were decent, never tried it with electric though. I like the Bike E better.

Scott at evdeals has a ton of Currie stuff also. http://www.evdeals.com/Default.htm

I think the folders are OK. I only bought them to cannibalize the USPD parts to build trailers but my girlfriend and I have ridden them about 20 miles or so around the neighborhood. They're good for that but they're a very heavy bike and they're pretty slow with the 20" wheel but they do climb well.

I don't know much about the RC stuff

[jdcburg]

I put dual freewheels on the chainrings of a mtb ebike in order to keep from turning my motor chain when I pedal. You can read about it and see a video at viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15529. I had a flanged adapter fabricated using a LH thread BB cup. I threaded an ACS Southpaw onto that and bolted a 36T chainring on for the motor drive sprocket. I used a long BB spindle from Cyclone to fit everything on. It's got about 500 miles on it and it's going fine. I use a 24V 350W brushed motor. The Southpaw might not hold up with a lot more power - jd

[wildharemtbkr]

Hello, I did an unofficial speed test, it is better than I thought. I had someone drive beside me, it would do 28 mph without pedalling (slightly uphill) in the middle hub gear and the 5th cog, and 35mph with pedalling the opposite direction(slightly downhill), in the 3rd hub gear and 5th cog. That was by a car speedometer so not very accurate. The range is really low though, so either my batteries are really lame (most likely) or it takes a lot of power!!

[wildharemtbkr]

Went for a ride the other day, got the battery off the charger 1 of the 3 was all puffed up, oops! I guess charging my 7ah sla's at 15 amps was a little much for them!! So I need a battery now more than ever. Went for a ride anyway, over to my friends, he lives up a super steep hill, about 45mph if coasting down, the bike did great!! went right up it! This is with a motor that on the scooter wouldn't even pull me!! Gears on low power setups are the only way!! I've got the EV addiction!! So about 28 on flat ground under own power, and great hill climbing ability, best of both worlds!! The chain did derail in the 7th cog, I cut it for a 24 tooth chain ring, then used a 21tooth so it is a touch long, in high gear it decides to bail.

[wildharemtbkr]

Hello! I finally bought lipo!! I got the 4 cell turnigy 20c hard case packs, wired 12s 3p., I bought the Hyperion charger 1410 to charge them. I bought the lipos a while ago, put them on my bike and promptly blew out the one way bearing in the Currie reduction drive. In the mean time while thinking of a redesign, I put them on my kids razor mx 350 (8s2p), and mx500 (12s3p). The lipos make all the difference!! They are amazing!! The first day when I was trying to figure how to make 3 4 cell batteries 12 cell, I screwed up and did the infamous KFF, hurts like hell!! After I got that out of the way it was a lot better. I have ran them on a Schwinn s750 scooter I picked up for less than $50, it is a bit of fun.

So I finally bought a new one way bearing for the bike E, put it back together with the 36 v controller and throttle from the s750, and the 12s battery, and zipped around on it. It was raining but it is so fun I didn't really care, until I was so cold I couldn't handle it anymore. The next day I rode to my nephews to let him ride it. 38 mph downhill with pedaling, on my phone speedometer! about 30-35 on the level ground, it gets along pretty good. Got a flat on the way home. Bad rim strip. I fixed it today and took my kids for a ride in the burley, it pulls them nicely. I think the bearing will fail again, it is simply too small, and not up to the task. It will pull 22 mph with no pedaling and 3 kids up the slight grade. I rode it without the kids up a super steep driveway with no problems, it is so easy to help by pedaling that I naturally do it. There is a bit of a hit or thunk when you throttle up too fast for the slack to pull out of the system, with a bit of a jerk. I really need to upgrade the motor the s350 motor is pretty lame. I have a 63/64 sitting here to go on it, just need a controller. I haven't decided ebike or rc yet. I also have a 80/85 but that will go on my mountain bike. I'll start a build 2 log when I get it going.

Thanks to the forum members for sharing your knowledge, I have learned so much about electricity that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. It is really cool to see each build with another neat idea. AJ with his homebuilt frames, Matt with his cnc beauty, Paul with his amazing welding, tench with his work of art, thud, whiplash, burtie, man its hard to name everybody!! There are so many talented and smart people on here, its awesome!! And last but not least thanks to Justin for keeping it alive.

[wildharemtbkr]

Haha ebiking is great fun!! I was off on my speeds, it do 14 mph no pedaling uphill, max down the same hill with pedaling 44.79mph. This is with a 350w currie brushed scooter motor, running backwards! I have got to build a mountain bike! It is funny all the looks you get when your going as fast as traffic! Maybe its 'cause it sounds like a blender full of rocks I need a mount for my phone, or a real bike computer. I also need to do a video. I wonder how long till I melt my motor? oh well I have at least 2 more!!