Hill Helper

[rearengine]

DeVries.... Thanks for takeing a look.. There won't be any pix for awhile .. I've got it all apart now.. Some how I have to get a longer run on the tire, and the only way is to lengthen the raidius arms.. that will put the drive farther up on tire... Now If I do that , then the drive with the motor out to the side won't fit between the seat struts on the recumbent... So now the question is do I want to run the tire on the motor can... OH well it winter here...

Spinner ... If i run on the can I'll be needing a longer shaft .. Right ?? I don't know for sure that I will do this or not...

[rearengine]

Well I had a short test ride in my driveway today .. The snow is melting, and the road is a mess with salt and all .. I have no idea what the top speed is , but the low end is really good .. I find that I have to be moveing some be for i hit the ST throttle,otherwize it slips and searches up & down the tire .. I'll have to get a thumb throttle , the ST is to hard to find when you need it .. Don't ask how I know As I said it has plenty of low end..I'm running on two 12v SLA batteries.. I have things wired up more or less temporarily so I could get out and test befor the weather changes..

What kind of camera & equipment are you guys using to take pix rideing on the road ,and putting them on here.. ?? I think I saw a thread on a little camera on here ,but now I can't find it..

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[AussieJester]

What kind of camera & equipment are you guys using to take pix rideing on the road ,and putting them on here.. ?? I think I saw a thread on a little camera on here ,but now I can't find it..

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808s Spy cameras are what your after
ebay is your friend for these dont pay more than 15 bucks delivered, i picked up a few of them now haven't paid more than 4 bucks a pop for them...Best of luck...

KiM

[rearengine]

Aussie.. Thanks for the info on the 808 camera, I'll check eBay... Happy New Year to ya ... Bill

[rearengine]

Qustion .. What are the penaltys for useing SLA Bats ,( other than weight) , I've been using 36V SLA on my 500w hub motor, 50A controller for about 2200 miles .. They still charge up to 39-40V fresh off the charger.. What I'm wondering is, Am I doing any harm to my RC out runner using SLA.. Maybe discharge rate , or something ? In the Turnegy controller progamming instructions nothing is said about SLA batteries.. So far No problem with the Tunegy 85 A controller with two caps, but haven't had a good test yet... Any advise ?? .. Bill

[TopCat]

What kind of camera & equipment are you guys using to take pix rideing on the road ,and putting them on here.. ?? I think I saw a thread on a little camera on here ,but now I can't find it..

A few members use these small minicams from HK...



http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10093

GCinDC has a few videos in his thread using this camera...

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14842&start=300#p267168

Regards
Tom

[spinningmagnets]

I'm curious about the use of SLA's myself. These small roller friction-drives don't have as big an amp-draw as the drives that use the motor-shell (though its wonderful how small and light those are). With a low amp-draw, the voltage sag that sometimes hurts SLA batteries (peukerts effect?), would be less of a concern.

The biggest concern (I'm guessing) would be a 24V SLA battery pack thats hot off the charger. It may have a voltage as high as (I don't know) 26V-27V? Thats part of why sharing information here is so great. If your Turnigy 85A/6S ESC handles a full 24V SLA pack, thats useful info. I don't think I would ever recommend SLA, but...a LOT of Ebikes are sold every year with SLA, simply because it lowers the buy-in price to get a bike running. Everyone knows that eventually the batteries will wear out, and when it's time to replace the SLA's, thats the perfect time to upgrade the chemistry and maybe even the voltage.

Payday is upon me, and I am getting longer motor phase-wires (would you like some too?). I will also be shortening the red/black power wires between the battery and the ESC (as short as possible), which I have read is quite important.

[rearengine]

TopCat.. That Tunegy camera sure took a nice video .. He must have had it mounted on his helmet.. I would like to mount a camera down so to see the drive , Mr Kepler style in his marketing thread..

My SLAs charge to 26.3 V .. I have a 36v charger , so I charge all 3 ,and keep rotating them to try and keep them equal.. It seems after they set for awhile they even out to with in 1 or 2 points of each other..Lugging two of these bricks around doesn't seem to bad, for now anyway... Not riding weather here, so I have no idea what range I'll have on a charge ...Peddle helping , mostly flat.. Anyone want to take a guess??? PRIZE , free ticket to yesterdays Rose Bowl.. Wisconsin lost ... Bill

[rearengine]

Well guys ! I got a problem ... I went for a 4mile ride the other day , every thing worked fine. great low end ,top speed 24mph ..THe drive ran up the tire when needed.. Man I was grinnin !!! Damm I was just getting ready to take a video to show you guys...

The problem ... the next day.. I turn on the esc switch, turn the ST to max, wait for the audibles, then turn to minimum, wait again for audibles... So far so good , but when I then turn the ST thottle up , the motor jurks once , and everything goes dead.. I've been through all the settings in the manual, and back to the default settings .. Checked all connections.. the voltage at the ESC 24.2..
The components are ...Turnigy 63-64-280 motor,Tunigy 85 amp with 2 caps, Tenegy Servo tester..

Does this sound like a blown ESC or a bad ST?? Nothing got hot , no smoke ,or smell ..

Any help , thoughts , Ideas ... sure would be appriciated... thanks.. Bill

[adrian_sm]

Noooooo. That sucks.

Not sure what it is, but sounds a bit like when I melted the insulations off my my motor windings. Is the motor difficult to turn by hand now. If so your windings may be shorting.

- Adrian

[deVries]

So far so good , but when I then turn the ST thottle up , the motor jurks once , and everything goes dead.. I've been through all the settings in the manual, and back to the default settings .. Checked all connections.. the voltage at the ESC 24.2.

Does the motor allow for some movement to engage with slippage every time it winds-up onto the tire?

The issue with the motor used as roller too is it will need some slippage (x rpm's) as it starts onto the tire, especially, when starting it from a standstill. Motor as roller is not meant to start from standstill, imo.

EVTodd's smaller roller never had a problem starting from a stop/standstill, because it could ease/slide into the tire at a higher rpm as it began moving.

With the motor can as your roller I would have guessed you needed to be going a few mph, at least, before engaging the ESC and spin the motor onto the tire allowing rotation immediately at the point of engagement. Otherwise, it will be susceptible to frying the ESC by overloading it with too much torque forces at too low an rpm.

[rearengine]

Thanks Guys...

Adrien.. No the motor turns freely, When I turn the ST up from minimum the motor kicks , then the lite on the ST goes out, and every thing is dead , like I turned it off.. The windings from what I can see through the end of the motor all look like new, nothing like what your pictures showed.. No smoke ,or smell .. Are you up and running now ?? Haven't seen your posts lately..

Devries... No I'm not running on the can.. I'm on the 1.25" roller that came with the drive head I got from Spinner.. I have the bike Jacked up .. THe roller just varily touches the tire when parked.. NOW AFTER READING YOUR REPLY, I backed off the park stud so it is completly off the tire .. No help .. I think I will start with a new 100 amp ESC.. Unless some one has a better Idea.. Bill

[EVTodd]

Make sure nothing mechanical has locked up. Since you have a clutch bearing the roller will always appear to be freely spinning.

My gf's bike did exactly the same thing when the roller shaft moved over and dug into the plate on the side of the mount.

[rearengine]

EVTodd... Yup every thing is free in the drive...I'm sure you would know about this drive all right... I'm useing two 12 volt SLA batteries,and in the ESC manual they don't mention this type.. Could this be a problem you think??.. The ESC is for a 6s lipo ,so could be ... Thanks for taking a look Bill

[adrian_sm]

No the motor turns freely, When I turn the ST up from minimum the motor kicks , then the lite on the ST goes out, and every thing is dead , like I turned it off..

Sounds like the ESC LVC kicking in. Check what setting it is on, and that you have your batteries fully charged. SLA probably sag a bit under load too, so even if the voltage is fine, when turning the motor over they may drop too low. Just guessing but might be it....

As for my bike. Yeah going really well. Managed to rip the grip tape off the motor while putting 2kW+ through it! Ooops. I have been refining the mechanicals and it is turning into something I really like. I am really starting to like these ultralight ebikes. Hope you get yours up and running soon.

- Adrian

[rearengine]

Adrian.. I got to tell ya... you were in the ball park , with the LVC, or maybe low bats , voltage sag..
The problem was the wireing in the battery harness in the case.. I think it is about 16 or 18 gage.. It's what came with my Oatema hub motor.. So I rewired it temporarly with 12 gage from the bat turminals to the ESC... Voltage sag ... This 12 gage wire I have is stiffer than hell.. there must be something better... I'm going to try and send a video I took .. Thank you all...

Spinner.. did you say something about makeing up leeds ?

No video I guess.. It says the extension avi is not allowed,what ever that is..

[spinningmagnets]

Spinner...did you say something about makeing up leads ?

Yeah, I just shortened my red/black power wires from the battery to the ESC as short as is practical, and then I made the 3 motor-phase wires longer to reach (as I have been told the phase wires can be as long as you want with no problems). Whenever I buy stuff to fix a problem, I always buy enough extra to fix the same problem a couple more times. What do you need? send me a pic of the two things you need connected (plus the length you need), and I'll solder 'em up!

[deVries]

EDIT: This is a low quality video, so I posted a higher quality video just 2 posts down from "here". Because these videos are taken at slightly different angles, I decided to leave this original low-rez video here. But for better image quality check the video in the other post. Here is a lower quality video that Rear Engine wanted me to upload onto his Hill Helper Thread showing his friction drive...

[spinningmagnets]

WOO HOO! looks good. I really think your design will perform very well.

[deVries]

Rear Engine did another video of his Friction Drive in higher quality 640x480 mode, which is the best rez his video camera can do. These are two close-ups that I combined & edited & posted for him here... Enjoy the higher rez with more details...


Btw, if anyone is having trouble getting their video posted on ES, then please PM me & I will try to help...

[rearengine]

deVries.. Thank you for posting the videos for me , and sending me the manual for my Cannon camera ..If you need help posting vids , he's the man.. I've had the camera for about four years ... Just found out it takes videos

I've had the bike out a few more times now .. 20 miles or so , every thing is , including the weather.. Bill

[rearengine]

Well I haven't had any of the heat problems you guys are talking about .. Might be because the temp is 28 * Ya think... I rode about 4 miles yesterday , got the tire wet ,and it did slip .. I now have it tighter on the tire to start with ,and it gets more aggessive as it ramps up... I just put the second strip on the roller , this all should help ... Still running on the Two lead bricks .. I have no idea what my range would be .. More snow coming ,so thats it for awhile

Been reading , and learning from you guys...

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ST With toy tractor tire

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on/off switch mounted

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[rearengine]

I'm getting ready for my 6s 5000 bricks .. With a little modification to the inside of this two way CB radio case.. Do you remember these ? Befor cell phones ha.. It will hold the two batteries side by side . I'll drill vent holes all around .. plenty of room for the controller , but I think I will leave it out side in the breeze.. The case is plastic, what should I line it with so I can charge the bats in it with out burning something up?

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[rearengine]

Spinner.. I think this is what you were thinking of also, for engaging the tire. Using the can on the ramp not the roller ... I bent a fender brace, and rapped it with tape then slid a length of fuel line over it for traction.. This kicks it on to the tire , and off the ramp.. I think this will eliminate the need for our one way bearings in the roller if they ever go to hell .. I haven't had it out in the real world yet, where the riding resistant's would keep the can off the ramp ..

You guys tell what you think .. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I over looked something.. Bill

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[Kepler]

Thats a super idea I have tried a few ways of engaging the drive including using a cam arrangement that pushed the drive onto the tire. Something like this is better. On my drive, I need to have the motor just brushing the tire for consistant pick up. This has no impact in relation to drag but the brushing noise can be a little annoying. I will look how I can do something similar I think.

Nice work.