Hill Helper

[rearengine]

Adrian.. I got to tell ya... you were in the ball park , with the LVC, or maybe low bats , voltage sag..
The problem was the wireing in the battery harness in the case.. I think it is about 16 or 18 gage.. It's what came with my Oatema hub motor.. So I rewired it temporarly with 12 gage from the bat turminals to the ESC... Voltage sag ... This 12 gage wire I have is stiffer than hell.. there must be something better... I'm going to try and send a video I took .. Thank you all...

Spinner.. did you say something about makeing up leeds ?

No video I guess.. It says the extension avi is not allowed,what ever that is..

[spinningmagnets]

Spinner...did you say something about makeing up leads ?

Yeah, I just shortened my red/black power wires from the battery to the ESC as short as is practical, and then I made the 3 motor-phase wires longer to reach (as I have been told the phase wires can be as long as you want with no problems). Whenever I buy stuff to fix a problem, I always buy enough extra to fix the same problem a couple more times. What do you need? send me a pic of the two things you need connected (plus the length you need), and I'll solder 'em up!

[deVries]

EDIT: This is a low quality video, so I posted a higher quality video just 2 posts down from "here". Because these videos are taken at slightly different angles, I decided to leave this original low-rez video here. But for better image quality check the video in the other post. Here is a lower quality video that Rear Engine wanted me to upload onto his Hill Helper Thread showing his friction drive...

[spinningmagnets]

WOO HOO! looks good. I really think your design will perform very well.

[deVries]

Rear Engine did another video of his Friction Drive in higher quality 640x480 mode, which is the best rez his video camera can do. These are two close-ups that I combined & edited & posted for him here... Enjoy the higher rez with more details...


Btw, if anyone is having trouble getting their video posted on ES, then please PM me & I will try to help...

[rearengine]

deVries.. Thank you for posting the videos for me , and sending me the manual for my Cannon camera ..If you need help posting vids , he's the man.. I've had the camera for about four years ... Just found out it takes videos

I've had the bike out a few more times now .. 20 miles or so , every thing is , including the weather.. Bill

[rearengine]

Well I haven't had any of the heat problems you guys are talking about .. Might be because the temp is 28 * Ya think... I rode about 4 miles yesterday , got the tire wet ,and it did slip .. I now have it tighter on the tire to start with ,and it gets more aggessive as it ramps up... I just put the second strip on the roller , this all should help ... Still running on the Two lead bricks .. I have no idea what my range would be .. More snow coming ,so thats it for awhile

Been reading , and learning from you guys...

Picture 015.jpg (124.96 KiB) Viewed 728 times

ST With toy tractor tire

Picture 016.jpg (90.99 KiB) Viewed 1094 times

on/off switch mounted

Picture 021.jpg (111.71 KiB) Viewed 1100 times

[rearengine]

I'm getting ready for my 6s 5000 bricks .. With a little modification to the inside of this two way CB radio case.. Do you remember these ? Befor cell phones ha.. It will hold the two batteries side by side . I'll drill vent holes all around .. plenty of room for the controller , but I think I will leave it out side in the breeze.. The case is plastic, what should I line it with so I can charge the bats in it with out burning something up?

Picture 033 (Custom).jpg

(30.41 KiB) Downloaded 91 times

[rearengine]

Spinner.. I think this is what you were thinking of also, for engaging the tire. Using the can on the ramp not the roller ... I bent a fender brace, and rapped it with tape then slid a length of fuel line over it for traction.. This kicks it on to the tire , and off the ramp.. I think this will eliminate the need for our one way bearings in the roller if they ever go to hell .. I haven't had it out in the real world yet, where the riding resistant's would keep the can off the ramp ..

You guys tell what you think .. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I over looked something.. Bill

Picture 035 (Custom).jpg

(29.67 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

[Kepler]

Thats a super idea I have tried a few ways of engaging the drive including using a cam arrangement that pushed the drive onto the tire. Something like this is better. On my drive, I need to have the motor just brushing the tire for consistant pick up. This has no impact in relation to drag but the brushing noise can be a little annoying. I will look how I can do something similar I think.

Nice work.

[spinningmagnets]

Bill, if you ever get the drive to engage well, while starting from rest while completely off the tire, It would be great to eliminate the one-way clutch-bearings ($20 for two). Also, you can swap-in a hardened steel knurled roller onto that 1/2" shaft from BMP for $18. I have one for experimenting with (when I get the time!). I'll send it on to you if you think you'd like to experiment with it (if you wait for me, it might take a year to get to that particular test!)

http://www.bikemotorparts.com/parts.html

[rearengine]

Thanks for the replies .. I will keep you up on how it works when it quits SNOWING .. I reprogrammend the ESC to use the brake , should be a little easier on the launch peg when it comes back to park ...

Spinner ..I think the knureld rollers are easier on the tire .. I used a KMX axle peg on a gas drive I had , But it would be too heavy for this drive I think.. Maybe what you have is lighter ... I have damm near wore out my tire , and brake just testing Thanks for the offer , lets see how this is going to work first .. I know the drive works fine , but would be better with the roller off the tire when you have to pedal home ...

Kepler.. Those Avatars are interesting

[Hillhater]

.. I reprogrammend the ESC to use the brake , should be a little easier on the launch peg when it comes back to park ... :

be very aware that can be instant death to your ESC if doesn't disengage with the tyre !

[rearengine]

Hillhater.. Thanks for the warning.. I presume your thinking of regen... I still have the free wheeling roller ...
Bill

[Hillhater]

Hillhater.. Thanks for the warning.. I presume your thinking of regen... I still have the free wheeling roller ...
Bill

Ahh, !! Ok then ...cunning move

[Kepler]

Cunning until the oneway bearing locks up. Hmm, maybe still OK if it fully disengages.

[rearengine]

Yup! good points ... Maybe it's not all that important for me to put the brake on .. My thought was with motor coasting it would hit the park peg , and bounce back on the tire .. probably not a big deal .. What do ya think? Got more SNOW #%**&#@) ... Bill

[Kepler]

I think the bounce would be hardly noticeable. I would keep the brake disabled if I was you. Risk for no real advantage in my opinion. Is the disengage spring loaded in any way? If not a spring would reduce any possible bounce.

[rearengine]

Pix of the new launch ramp ... The first one was to flexie ,and couldn't handle the recoil .. This one works as a park soft stop also .. The roller is off the tire about 1/16th " ... Rode 5 miles today , never missed engaging the tire.. I cut a corner out of my mouse pad , and stuck it on the ramp with two way sticky tape .. So far so good ... As you can see in the pix the roads are full of salt & sand .. I guess I had better cover up the controller ... Bill

Picture 050.jpg (127.7 KiB) Viewed 634 times

[spinningmagnets]

It sounded like it would work OK when you mentioned the idea, but...now that I see it, I like it a lot! Soft-return and launch-ramp all in one. Simple, sturdy, cheap...I doubt the mouse pad will wear out any time soon, but easy to replace if needed.

I think if I held back my sliding roller-frame with a spring (compared to you being able to use a forward tilt and gravity), I could add a ramp like this. That would allow me to have the roller completely off the tire, perhaps eliminate the two clutch-bearings ($20/pair), and also allow me to maybe use the $18 steel rollers from BMP as an option...

[rearengine]

Spinner... What size is that roller ? I'm going fast enough for me with the 1.25 roller.. I haven't had any loss of sync or power drop .. I peddle to 8-10mph then hit the thottle hard enough so it jumps off the ramp... once on the tire it's 80-100% throttle ... I do hear some what of a scream on the way up, but never any power loss, just really good acceleration up over 24 mph .. hot off the charger @ 26.9 - 27.2 v ... The only gadgets I have for testing are my hands every thing is luke warm... And that's

I think I would like to try a knurled roller ... It would be cleaner , and easier on the tire.. ya think?..
Bill

[spinningmagnets]

Cunning until the oneway bearing locks up

Although these type of one-way needle bearings actually have a very good record in industry, those normally have some automatic clean lubrication built-into the system. I can imagine an FD customer never greasing them, (just a smear of grease needed every 6 months or so?) and I imagine the bearings would start producing a dry screetch before complete failure (as I have seen bearings do in the past).

The more I think about your ramp, Bill, the more I like it. And then by adding the steel roller, it would do three things for me. It eliminates greasing maintenance, eliminates the need to occasionally replace the sandpaper, and it clearly removes all possible drag when unpowered. The drag right now is so low I can't feel it, but if an improvement eases a customers concern, it is worth pondering.

Any round thing can be knurled by a jig in a machine shop, though they prefer to do the knurling when the steel is at its softest (before the hardening process), so that the tooling lasts longer and the knurls are deeper and sharper. If you'd like to try out the BMP 1.0" roller, its yours for the asking (your thread here has helped me a lot, its the least I can do!). Going from 1.25" down to 1.0", your top speed would drop from 24-MPH to roughly 20-MPH, but the hill-climbing should be slightly better (less motor-bog, less heat)

[Kepler]

I really like the launch ramp addition to the friction drive concept. Looks like you have it sorted nicely. This setup really negates the need for one way bearings in the roller. Unfortunately it’s a little more difficult to achieve with the roller hanging above the tire as on a standard bike configuration. I am playing with some ideas using the motor shaft as a launch roller. Having gone to a single swing arm, I can now use the other side of the drive to mount a relatively compact launch ramp mechanism. Not sure if I really need it but certainly worth experimenting with.

[rearengine]

Hey Kep ... Thanks for taking a look ... So far I couldn't be happier with the set up .. I say sofar because I don't have nearly the miles on it as you do on yours.. The ramp has given back the free wheeling of an unassisted rear wheel .. I'm sure a ramp would work on yours with a fixed arm on the off side of the drive ... HA!! I sure as hell don't have to tell you how to do it ..

Spinner is sending me his knureld 1" roller to play with .. With out the one way bearings it might slam it back to the park / launch ramp pretty hard ... WE shall see.. I'm glad it's 1" so I can keep cadence with it when I want .. The 1.25 is to fast for me now .. sending a pic with the original soft park taken off..

Picture 043.jpg (118.71 KiB) Viewed 574 times

[rearengine]

I can't say I'm real happy with the 1" roller wth out the one way bearings in it ... The free wheeling roller didn't bounce on engagement from the launch ramp ... 1.25" roller seams to be the right diameter for me...
Do any of you know where I could find a 1.25" one way KNURLED roller ? I emailed Bikemotorsports ,said they stopped offering them 2 yrs ago .. Bill