Cuda-E - 4000 watt Shumaker drive upgrade

[www.recumbents.com]

Hi Matt,

Yes, I'll have to do that. Also I need to pick up some parts from you.

So last night I took it easy on the way home, and ran human power for part of the way on the low speed roads. On the way home I only used 2.5 Ah. I would have probably made it the whole way even without taking it easy as I was still at 45V when I got home. Today I rode again, but am using my newly modified MeanWell to charge at work.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I have been riding this bike to work a couple times per week now and it's working fine.

• 26 wh/mi average with 30 MPH cruising, jackrabbit starts, hills, etc.
• Over the past week, rode 38 miles, used 22 Ah, so I can make it to work and back on 8.2 Ah. Maybe I don't need to charge at work but the system is a lot more peppy on a full charge.
• Bulk charging using the Meanwell and the BMSBattery chargers is working well.
• The Casco helmet is working great on the recumbent after modding the ear flaps with some leather to cover the holes. I still hear the wind but it's not painful.

Max wattage seems to be less than 3000 watts. You have to pedal up to 5 MPH before throttling up or else the motor/drivetrain has issues. I'm going to visit Matt to have him make me a torque clutch as that seems to really help at low speeds. It really pulls from about 10MPH to 25, then gradually makes it up to 30.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I finally broke down and got a Castle Link to view and set the options in my Castle Creations HV160 ESC. I wanted to try the custom motor timing setting Matt (recumpence) mentioned in another thread. Here are the current settings, most of which were set by Matt when I bought the system from him.





Also, here a screen shot of the ESC log from part of my commute.



-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I had just changed the motor timing from 5 down to 2 to see if it would do good things at lower RPM like Matt saw on his system, but it didn't seem to make much difference in the highly scientific around the block test. The motor did seem pretty warm when I got back, so maybe I will change it back. It still runs a bit jerky and has some odd stalls at lower RPMs but this may be normal for a sensorless motor.

-Warren.

[Wheazel]

I really enjoy to read about your project, seems to be such a nice commuter.
I saw something about 700watts at 30mph earlier, how much is the drivechain pulling if you just lift the rear wheel up to spin in the air?

[AussieJester]

I really enjoy to read about your project, seems to be such a nice commuter.
I saw something about 700watts at 30mph earlier, how much is the drivechain pulling if you just lift the rear wheel up to spin in the air?

I think you mean whats hie no load speed ?

Those settings aside from the motor start up, timing and direction etc are identical to mine OH and the startup i have mine on 2 not 4...

KiM

[Wheazel]

I want to know how much watts the the gearing itself "consumes". I am having some efficiency problems with my own setup that uses a pocketbike gearbox with straight cut gears.
I understand that it is no great scientific measurement, but at least is something i can compare with.
My setup is pulling 1100-1200 watts 30mph flatground and the drivetrain wants about 360watts to just spin the wheel in the air.
If i disconnect the final stage chain, the gearbox and motor still wants close to 300watts. I can imagine the gearbox wants even more under load.

The gearbox has become slightly quieter after some driving and wattage has been going down slightly aswell. Guessing the gears were rough at first and slowly getting better.

[www.recumbents.com]

I'll check the no load current at WOT. 1100 - 1200 watts is probably fine if you have an upright bike. That's what I see on my mountain bike with a BMC hub motor at 30MPH. The recumbent is much more efficient aerodynamically, so the wattage at cruising speed is lower.

After my 'round the block test, the motor was hot, but not too hot to hold. I don't usual check the temp. Does anyone know if changing the timing could make the motor run hotter?

-Warren.

[recumpence]

The lower timing is supposed to reduce motor heat. However, I think the timing changes make the most difference on higher KV motors. My yellow trike was noticeably affected. My Catrike has an even higher KV motor. I will reprogram it this week and test it for you.

Oh, yesterday both of my trike motors were running 150 to 160 degrees F when pushed hard repeatedly. That is about 65 to 70 degrees above ambient. That is pretty normal for these motors. As cruise, mine typically run about 25 degrees above ambient.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

At WOT with no load the system uses about 130 watts. After my commute to work today (7.8 miles) at WOT the whole way (except when stopping at lights & stuff) the motor was too hot to touch for long, so a bit hotter than around the block, but not bad.

Hey Matt, I think even my low KV motor may sync a bit better at low RPM now, especially if I keep the throttle low. It's hard to compare Ah used from day to day as the speed and direction of the wind really affects the amount of power needed for cruising, and some days I am more throttle-happy than others. I should be able to determine after a week or so though if the motor timing change helps or hurts the overall efficiency.

BTW, I'll be getting a sports video camera soon as my birthday gift to myself, so I may finally be able to post the more interesting bits of the commute.

-Warren.

[recumpence]

Cool! I need to get one of those cameras myself. I think people would freak if they saw how I drive my yellow trike.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

Hi-Res Video of my commute.

[Kurt]

Nice smooth ride with a great average speed.

Peoples definition of a big steep hill is very relative to where they live I think. It all looked flat to me

Kurt

[www.recumbents.com]

Yeah, it's weird how the go-pro flattens everything out.

I live in Illinois which is very flat. The route in the video goes in and out of a river valley though, so there is some elevation. Certainly nothing like the mountainous regions of the world though.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I had been experiencing some oddness while the AstroFlight 8510 motor was running at low RPM for some time, and the drivetrain was starting to make some strange clunking and other noises, so I decided it was time to take it apart. The reduction unit seemed fine and it's bearings were in good shape, but the shaft of the motor had a lot of play in it and the motor made clunking noises when spinning it by hand. Ewww. Not good.

I removed the motor from the drive unit. I suppose the jingling when I shake it is not good? The bearing on the drive end was trashed. It was missing many bearings. That little flake on the rotor is probably what is left of one of them. The inner bearing cover plate was a crumpled little wad. After wiping down the rotor there were a couple small gouges but it looks very good, considering the hard use it has been through.



The inside of the motor looks good too. The bearing on the cap end had a lot of play in it but had not lost any bearings yet. It needs a little cleaning and some new bearings but after that it should be good as new.




What worries me is that the drivetrain only had about 250 miles on it. 250 hard miles. Hopefully the new bearings will last longer than the original ones. Also Matt will be making a clutch unit for the drivetrain soon, which will cut down on the low RPM stress and allow the belt to be a little less tight.

Any suggestions where to get high quality 3/8" ID bearings quickly?

-Warren.

[Thud]

Warren,
look in your yellow pages for: Applied industrial (formerly detroit ball bearing) or just under bearings..their everywhere.
I use VXB for most of the stuff i buy in quatities of 10 or more.

[www.recumbents.com]

Hmm. These look okay.
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servl ... all/Detail

Are all 3/8" ID bearings ABEC1 ? I wouldn'y mind paying a couple extra bucks for a better bearing...

-Warren.

[recumpence]

There is a place in Wauconda, just a few minutes from my house called Mechanical Power. They are my bearing supplier. I can call them tomorrow (if they are open) and see what high quality bearings they have in stock.

Matt

[Thud]

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/3-8inch/KIt7665

hehe, if you want to go krazy...try these. VXB ships from california & usps is cheap if you can wait for 4 days.

[www.recumbents.com]

Those ceramic bearings look nice Thud, but I'm concerned that the plastic seals may melt down. Hey you are right there are bearing suppliers everywhere. One by me is BBC Berry Bearing Co.

Matt: I'll try BBC Berry and if that does not work out I'll let you know and you can source them.

I'm still amazed that the motor was working as well as it was with the bearings in that condition and with that much chaff in the motor. It suppose it was running a couple MPH slower than usual on the way home. Looking at that tiny rotor I am also amazed that that little thing cranks out so much power.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

Any idea how to get the old bearing race off the rotor drive-shaft? It is being obstinate.

[Thud]

The deremel is your friend here.
you can cut nearly through in 2 spots & then break the race with a light rap with a chisle or punch.
good luck.
T

[Kurt]

Would be interesting to know why the bearing failed after only 250 miles. Lets say at a average speed of 25 MPH that's only 10hrs use, even at a avarage speed of 12.5MPH its only 20hrs use.

I think you are on the right track regarding not over tensioning the belt.Combine that with high RPM and heat most likely not the best combination. The drive side bearing failing would soon cause the rear bearing to fail.

You would think the Quality of bearing would be fairly good to begin with being a Astro motor.

That clutch unit that Matt sold me with my reduction drive is great. I don't run a lot of power but running the motor with hall sensors.Its gives you the ability to create a lot of torque through the drive with dead stop take off no peddling. I have the primary belt not loose but defiantly that tight and I have had no belt slip at all.

Kurt

[recumpence]

Warren,

You should see how much power a 6 turn 3210 will make. These things are awesome!

I agree that the bearings should not have failed so soon. I have only seen two other people wear out bearings and both of them had far more miles on higher RPM motors.

Is your motor face plate bearing fine (the one in the drive unit)? That bearing was put there to reduce the load on the front motor bearing due to the cantelever load on that front bearing.

Matt

[SoSauty]

The 8510 is listed as an RC motor, yet the 3210 as an industrial motor, on the Astro site. Could the difference be industrial strength bearings?