Destroyed! A warning to those using freewheel cranks....

[Miles]

The current bike design is a compromise but works because there's only one sprocket.

It works because, for the envisaged use, there are no significant forces on the freewheel in overrunning mode...........

[mdd0127]

Eggzactly.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If any manufacturers see this, we need a flanged, high quality freewheel with dual row bearings!

Yes!

Sent this to Jim at Sickbikes:

What are the chances of you coming up with a solution? Maybe an additional optional support bearing for your Eno FW's?

And got this response:

Yes we are aware of the problem as it applies to mostly electric applications as the angular loads are much greater with an electric set up than with our gas jackshaft set up. We have contacted White about making a dual row bearing freewheel for us making a much more bullet proof set up. They said they would work on it but we haven't bugged them about it lately. I will contact them again and see if we can get the project started again. I will let you know what they say.

My reply (hopefully not a mistake!):

Maybe I could help organize a group purchase which would help you judge demand (might not be good news) and help fund the project.

His reply:

Yes some input about quantity would help.

If nobody beats me to it I'll start a new topic (maybe a poll) later tonight.

[mdd0127]

That's awesome! I contacted White about it about a year ago and got the good old blow off. At least they're thinking about it now!

[Miles]

What are the chances of you coming up with a solution? Maybe an additional optional support bearing for your Eno FW's?

Fine. I'm not keen on "exclusive" parts, though.....

[Miles]

In case the design I was proposing wasn't clear:

[MitchJi]

Hi Miles,

What are the chances of you coming up with a solution? Maybe an additional optional support bearing for your Eno FW's?

Fine. I'm not keen on "exclusive" parts, though.....

Jim proposed having White make a FW with two bearings. Which isn't more exclusive than his current solution.

In case the design I was proposing wasn't clear:...

Another design using "exclusive" parts (sorry, I couldn't resist ).

[boostjuice]

Mitch, Thankyou for approaching Sickbikeparts with that request. I hope they can come up with something innovative and widely useable. I do however fear that in order to retain the use of sealed cartridge bearings in a twin bearing design - a key benefit of an ENO - it would lead to an excessively wide freewheel as a bi-product. However despite this i guess they would likely still be usable for the majority of users with extended bottom bracket spindles. (Not me unfortunately )



As always, beautiful CAD work Miles - just as i'd imagined it from your earlier explanation . Unfortunately for me however, it turns out that I can't even afford an extra 8mm inbound clearance between my Freewheel and BB cup as im running a standard length BB spindle (128mm x 83mm BB).

I've just recieved one of the Recently released ACS 'Crossfire' series freewheels in 22T to try out next in place of the failed Dicta. Being CNC mill/laser cut, they are a HUGE step up in quality from the old largely stamped Dicta and ACS 'Claws' line (another i was considering). They feature a quality finish, 3 synchronously engaging pawls just like the ENO, offer very low overrunning resistance, are reasonably quiet, and feature twin angular contact bearings with minuscule lateral freeplay. If the ratchets are rotary/laser cut like an ENO, rather than being broach stamped such as in the 'Claws' line (and all Dicta's I might add), then there is a good chance that the parent metallurgy is stronger as it can be of a harder material before broaching and subsequent case hardening.

To try and ascertain this I will post pictures of their internals soon!

I also ordered an ACS Crossfire freewheel in 13T to have a play with as I've not been happy with the excessive over-running resistance and 'roughness' of bearing rotation of my Odyssey 13T i planned to use for my next build. Just like the 22T Crossfire, it's smoother, quieter, rolls free'er and is much more nicely finished than the Odyssey.

[Miles]

Jim proposed having White make a FW with two bearings. Which isn't more exclusive than his current solution.

Which is exclusive to him.

Another design using "exclusive" parts (sorry, I couldn't resist ).

No, anyone is free to copy it

[Miles]

I've just recieved one of the Recently released ACS 'Crossfire' series freewheels in 22T to try out next in place of the failed Dicta. Being CNC mill/laser cut, they are a HUGE step up in quality from the old largely stamped Dicta and ACS 'Claws' line (another i was considering). They feature a quality finish, 3 synchronously engaging pawls just like the ENO, offer very low overrunning resistance, are reasonably quiet, and feature twin angular contact bearings with minuscule lateral freeplay. If the ratchets are rotary/laser cut like an ENO, rather than being broach stamped such as in the 'Claws' line (and all Dicta's I might add), then there is a good chance that the parent metallurgy is stronger as it can be of a harder material before broaching and subsequent case hardening.

Sounds promising....

http://www.bmxultra.com/reviews/acs_cro ... ewheel.htm

[Miles]

Have you come to a final verdict on the 'Crossfires', bj?

[boostjuice]

Have you come to a final verdict on the 'Crossfires', bj?

You can all decide for yourselves.....amongst other choices

[Miles]

'Museum of freewheel'.

Thanks!

[markobetti]

Wow , Boostjuice , what is your opinion since you have the museum:) ; the best long lasting choice ?

[boostjuice]

'Museum of freewheel'.

Thanks!

Dammit, I knew I should have charged an entry fee

Wow , Boostjuice , what is your opinion since you have the museum:) ; the best long lasting choice ?

WI ENO wins if you don't need dual angular contact bearings, ACS Crossfire the alternative if you do, or need <16T.

Both feature triple synchronous engaging pawls rather than the others which use two (odyssey excepted), so torque capacity is better. The Crossfire has very low noise and over-running drag, the ENO is intermediate in comparison.

The ENO pictured has been used for freewheel crank duties for ~300Km and its ratchet/pawls look completely unscathed from that sort of torque loading, so its got the locking strength, and definitely superb machining quality/tolerances as you can see.

Don't bother with the rest IMHO, Crossfires are basically as cheap or cheaper than the others of inferior build quality.

The Crossfire is finished very nicely and obviously a huge step up in quality from the Claws line. The ratchet profile is laser cut rather than broached like most cheaper freewheels so it 'should' be that the parent metal is harder than the lesser types (Note: ENO ratchet profile is rotary milled, from very strong parent metal).

The tensile 96click looks nice, but has way too much freewheeling drag. Also, because it uses the pawls/springs from the 60 click version, they don't seat properly in the valleys of the ratchet profile. Rather, they contact the very tip of each ratchet tooth = inferior design, handicapped torque handling.

Also, Crossfire 13T is the better option compared with the Odyssey 13T. Lower freewheeling drag and lateral bearing play and looks way cooler! Both feature 3 synchronous engagement pawls, so strength should be much the same.

[Solcar]

Boostjuice, thanks very much. I enjoyed the exhibit. Great information, I'll look out to obtain the ACS crossfire.

[MitchJi]

Hi bj,

Any chance of fixing the links or reposting the pictures?

You can all decide for yourselves.....amongst other choices


...

By chance, I happened to save all those when I saw them, as I am considering modifying some existing freewheels with certain features I saw on those (which I expect to fail but still may try).

Attached below, not necessarily in the same order they used to be:

Thanks Amberwolf!

[amberwolf]

By chance, I happened to save all those when I saw them, as I am considering modifying some existing freeewheels with certain features I saw on those (which I expect to fail but still may try).

Attached below, not necessarily in the same order they used to be:

[boostjuice]

Yeah sorry guys. I just changed ISP, and the new one is taking forever and stuffing me around with my new FTP webspace setup. AW saves the day in the meantime

[myzter]

How to help...
mount a large chain ring 40T+ to the Acs Crossfire 16T FW ?
what do I do or need to buy ??

[comradegerry]

I just picked up a Tensile Onza 60 click from Ebay to experiment with...

It has dual bearings and looks to be decent build quality, I plan to grind off the cog and get somebody to weld on a flange similar to the WI ENO type....

Would this work for a through the crank setup, moderate power, is it even worth trying or am I best sticking to the flanged ENO I currently have installed?.

I will post up some pics of it opened up when it arrives for the curious.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260910437496?ss ... 1439.l2649

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted you to know I am developing a freewheeling crank setup that uses a second support bearing to solve this problem and will accept normal 130mm BCD chainrings. I expect to have them in stock in about 30 days.

I am sorry to hijack the thread. But, I thought you might want to know.

Matt

[fizzit]

Cost estimate? Or if I have to ask...

[recumpence]

Cost estimate? Or if I have to ask...

That depends on what you are looking for.

The bottom bracket requires a longer spindle for room for the second bearing. So, it requires a bearing, lengthened bottom bracket, bearing spacer, sprocket adaptor, crank arms, chainrings, and freewheel. The freewheel can be a basic flanged freewheel or a White Industries flanged freewheel. I would guess it will be maybe $250 or $300? I have to total up all the parts that go into this and get back to you.

Matt

[comradegerry]

Hi Matt

That sounds real interesting look forward to seeing the idea develop into another cool must have product.

Best wishes for Christmas and New Year.

Gerard