Another DH Project

[motomoto]

Thanks for the strokes Enpro.

I have the 3220 but I am doing some work to get things ready for more power.
One of the things I have been meaning to do is make a third bearing support
for the 250 chain drive sprocket. As you can see it has a spud sticking out for
a bearing.

It is threaded into a 1/2" shaft but is just dangling out there without support,
so I made this support with a 6 mm bearing pressed into it.

I also have had an issue with the power pole arming switch melting down. They
are good in that when they make contact and spark, that is not the surfaces that
make contact when they are completely plugged in. The contact area when they
are plugged in is not very large and it creates a source of resistance and gets hot
and melts. the biggest size wire you can use to slid in the connector is 14 gauge.
I think that is pretty wimpy so my solution is to use 2 switches in parallel.

I am also trying to clean up the wiring and use 10 gauge and not put the final
flow of power through a deans connector but a high capacity connector. I chose
a CC 8 mm barrel connector because I think I can solder 3 wires into one connector.
There is enough room. Haven't tried it yet, but I did get the shunt and extra capacitor
thing handled.

I still need to make all the solder connections to plug to the CA. That and cut the motor
shaft to size and add connector to the motor and install and that is about it. Getting close.

[Whiplash]

Super clean as usual!

[lostrack]

Eagerly awaiting news motomoto. Your build is inspiring!!

I'm very interested to see if the 3220 works, power-wise, through the drivetrain. If so, I'll consider switching over - to save a bit of weight, and for that awesome gears-f1-whine! Right now I'm (almost) driving straight to the back wheel with the disc-to-sprocket adapter.

Tom

[motomoto]

I got the 3220 4 turn wired in delta. Thanks Matt and thanks to Justin at Astro Flight for giving the
proper wiring instructions. The 3 wires that are terminated together in the motor are pretty short.
One of them stuck out from the edge of the can about 3/8 of an inch. Not much to work with there.
The 3 grouped wires were all soldered together so when separated they were all tinned and ready to
go. I decided to take these 3 new wires and put a male 4 mm Castle Creations bullet on them. They
are rated at 75 amps. I put heat shrink on to cover the wire and bullet, and trimmed to expose only the male
part, then I put 2 more layers of heat shrink on just the wires and not the bullet. I did this because
I didn't use grommets for the 3 new 1/4" holes I drilled in the cover. I used 12 gauge wire to extend
the short wires into a 5.5 mm Castle Creations bullet along with the appropriate wire according to
Justin. So I put 2 wires into 1 solder pot 3 times for the 3 connectors. Tricky but doable.

The motor is amazing. So much power. It starts to taper off about 12k as the back-EMF starts to
nullify the voltage from the battery. From about 5k to 10k the thing pulls REALLY STRONG. It
is pretty bitchin. I have the CA set at 160 amps maximum.

I can feel where my 10 turn 3210 would go flat and make heat, this motor turns the amperage
into thrust. It's like going from a 250 cubic inch engine to a 500 cubic inch engine, and the 500
cubic inch engine is more fuel efficient, has twice the power and revs more. It has really made
my setup into something fantastic.

The fun part is that I spent the day at the Folsom, Ca. dirt jump park today with my two grandsons.
I had the electric bike there one time before but it just felt dangerous. This time I had the CA
and set it at 20 amps. It was great. Just thumb the throttle and you get a nice smooth push.
So, there is a couple of double jumps that you have to have some serious speed and skill to make
on a BMX bike. I have only seen one kid do it. I am no where close to having the speed or the skill
to make those jumps, and I have a sweet 26" Cannondale jump bike. Well, I was hitting it at my usual
speed on the electric and realized how forgiving the downhill bike is on the jumps with 8 and 10 inches
of suspension front and rear. If I could just use the throttle on the downhill and get up enough speed
I could make the double and the one after. The problem is, I am 54 years old and my testicles started
to tuck up inside like ovaries at about 50. Well, I am not quite bright, so I went to the car and
got my cell phone. I told my oldest grandson Evan, 10, that he might have to drive home. He just looked
blankly at me. He still doesn't get my sense of humor. Anyway, I told him that he might have to use my phone
and call Grandma if I crash.
Well, after a couple of 'not this time' last second abandon mission runs, I finally held the throttle on to just
before the jump and flew off... but not far enough. The front wheel made it, but that just made the
jump a perfect wedge to split the forks off from the rest of the bike. Man I am glad they make those
downhill bikes strong because a normal bike would have broken in two.
Well, I decided, I will just put the amps up to 30 and that will give me enough speed to clear it. On the
next run I kind of cleared it, but the rear caught the top pretty good and the suspension saved me. So I set
the amps at 40 and took another run. this time I cleared it and when I came around the bowl turn after
the jumps the grandsons had there fists in the air cheering.
It was great, but I spent the rest of the day on the jump bike doing my usual runs with smaller jumps.
I ran out of bravery for the day. I rode pretty awesome the rest of the day. The bad thing is, is that I am
getting pretty good and am ready to jump the 2 gap jumps at the end of my favorite run that I have
been avoiding. So I will have to sack up again. Oh brother.

[motomoto]

I took some video today before we went dirt jumping but I left the camera in the truck at work.
Tomorrow we are going to the beach with the grandkids, so Sunday night or Monday I will have video
and pictures.

[Kepler]

Much respect Moto. I am 51 and get nervous launching off a road curb let alone a double at a BMX park. Well done, you and your bike have set new standards within the ebike seen.

[lostrack]

Haha!! This brings back the memories!

Enjoyed the story. We all remember our huge back-wheel case jumps...they're character building! If you get really good the idea is to jettison the bike mid-flight...not sure how good that's going to be on even a "light" ebike, however.

Nice work!

Look forward to the video & hearing the Astro in delta. I thought you said it was going to cause problems with the CC controller though?

Tom

[motomoto]

2 new videos

http://youtu.be/JUOXhDYfsL0

http://youtu.be/JUOXhDYfsL0

[lostrack]

2 new videos

http://youtu.be/JUOXhDYfsL0

http://youtu.be/JUOXhDYfsL0

Awesome mate. Loads of fun! Get him a helmet though. sorry...

What amps were you running your RC CA on for this?

Your setup is so slick!! Gears ahhhhhhhh.... maybe a little envious at the moment:)

Our setups are so similar now, all that's changed are the frame & drivetrain. We should do some Delta vs. Wye testing when I get my RC/CA.

Would love to see that jump by the way:)

[motomoto]

I set the CA at 160 amps max, because I don't want to be the one to find out the
limit and have to send the controller back to CC. It has plenty of power that I
have to learn to deal with.

I am kind of proud of the fact that I saw the CA read 46+ mph on the end of the second leg
of the street run and I did have a full face helmet on for that.

I think I will put some other wheels and tires on and do a top speed run. I am
guessing at 55 mph. We will see. There will be video.

There also will be video of the jump when I store up another bag of courage.
Possibly Wednesday.

Also, I have been looking forward to the April 7th Grange race on a go kart track.
I haven't raced anything in a while, and never on pavement. I am sure there will be guys
there with a lot more motor and a lot more battery. Maybe a top 5 spot I hope?

Here is a picture of the wiring. The original holes have the grommets.

one and six, two and three, four and five for delta according to Justin at AF

"A pile of aluminum scrap I have to walk around at work".

[lostrack]

How's it working out so far moto?

[motomoto]

Awesome. I am finally fixing a problem I have had all along. The V-10 frame I am using has a lot
of monkey motion in the suspension which adds up to 35 mm of chain growth from the
rear suspension fully extended to fully compressed. So when the chain is under load from
the motor and you land from a jump or just hit a bump that compresses the suspension,
more stress is put on the chain as the distance between the crank and the rear axle
increases. (chain growth)
I was going to build a new swingarm that had significantly less chain growth, but decided
on another solution that would fix other problems also. I am building a torque limiting
clutch between the 2 crank sprockets. When the drive sprocket that sends power to the
rear of the bike reaches a certain torque level it slips. Simple as that.
If the bike is landed with the throttle wide open, the only motor and drive train momentum
shock that the chain will experience will be from the drive sprocket and the chain itself.
The result will be that I can now finally ride it like a motocross bike on a motocross track and
not have to hear the bad noises from the drivetrain that I usually hear, like when I climb a rough hill.
Normally I have to back off on the throttle to save the chain.

[sn0wchyld]

sounds groovy... can you link us to the torque limiter your using?

[motomoto]

It's from scratch.

[etard]

Sooo sick and dirty I had to close the browser when my Gf walked in on me drooling!

Don't forget about the Riverside race around the same time as Grange. It may be a better surface/track or do both if you can get the time. I'll be at both, so I will be glad to see you there. Also, if you bring dirt tires to the Grange race we can shoot some video of us wooping through the desert around the track (I'll have my KDX at this race).

[motomoto]

I have a couple more videos. I still think I can hit 60. I just had my two cheap 5000ma 24 volt batteries
and I had to nurse it because they would hit the low voltage cutoff easily even though they were fully charged.
Today I only could do 54 mph. I am putting a couple more batteries on for the next run.

http://youtu.be/ae2FmDdT9aI

http://youtu.be/kWv9Dny7lzk

[waxman123]

Wow what a great build !!!!

[motomoto]

Thanks.

Just to let you know, I am not posting stuff just to draw attention to myself. I am basically
the kind of guy who doesn't need any approval from anyone but myself. I am happy in my own little world trying
to make my dreams come true and wanting it to happen faster!!

So I have been working on this project for over a year now and I am testing to find out what my
top speed is. My first attempt resulted in a 54 mph run and realizing that I needed more batteries.
Today's run resulted in a 66 mph run and what I think is the limit of my set up.

Most of what I have done came from Matt Shumakers work. I just put my own spin on it.
He did all the trial and error research combined with an engineering mind and came up
with the correct answers which resulted in some bitchin' toys.

Also I wanted to mention that the reason I don't imbed my Youtube videos on the page
is that the resolution is low and they can be watched in 1080p the way I do it.

So, here are today's videos and the last of my speed runs for a while.

http://youtu.be/PcyKhL6sb4A

http://youtu.be/lYR2L3ak0EU

[sn0wchyld]

...... I am basically
the kind of guy who doesn't need any approval from anyone but myself.....

well tuff titties moto... 'cause you got mine. that bike sound schaweeeeet, and looks like sex. ever tried down shifting under light power while breaking? I'd love to hear that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v8CIDdKvUkg#t=23s

[jk1]

How does the rear derailer handle the motor power ? what is your maxium power ? is their any skipping gears under load with so much power ?

What chain thickness are you using for the motor chain and also the rear derailer chain ?

[motomoto]

When I originally designed the project, I had the first stage reduction at 4 to 1 resulting in a 60 to 1
reduction at the crank. The motor I was using at the time was 6,000 rpm, so I could pedal along with it.
The result was too much torque causing the rear cassette to skip and break chains. So I changed the initial
drive ratio to 2.25 to 1 which transmitted less torque and more rpm and made the rear cassette and
chain happy and also resulted in using the larger sprockets for the same speed engaging more teeth.
I haven't had skipping or chain problems since.

For the speed run I changed the initial ratio to 1.75 to 1 because I wanted to be using the larger rear sprockets
at high speed and power. The crank was approaching 500 rpm, so the drive train was spinning 5 times faster
than what is normal.

I would say the power was approaching 10 hp. If you watch the display panel on the run it shows the Kw in
the bottom left hand corner.

The short chain to the crank is a BMX chain and the derailleur chain is standard.

Just to let you know, I am not posting stuff just to draw attention to myself.

I would like to add that I post because I hope I am contributing something of value to others like
Matt S has done. I hope to think we are all trying to push the envelope and take each other to new
heights. I think I have helped explore the derailleur gear change set up possibilities.

[recumpence]

I wanted you guys to know, Kim and I are collaborating on a couple cool projects. He is a phenominal machinist. What Kim brings to the table is, not only great machining, but a knowledge of bicycles, dirtbikes, and how to make stuff look really cool! He also has a good mind for developing mechanical stuff. I have a couple designs he is looking at machining for me and one of his ideas is [hopefully] being implemented in an absolutely insane drive system that should be the highest power single motor RC based system I have developed to date.

Kim does not like pushing products. But, I don't mind doing it......

Anyway, I am looking forward to having this connection with another great guy. I have a decent circle of guys who each bring something valuable to the table. Together [with each of us doing what we do best] far better products can be developed. Together, we can do what one person, alone, cannot.

Sorry for taking your thread off the beaten path (pun intended).
I just wanted you guys to know Kim and his work will be seen more and more on this forum over the next few months.

Back on topic!

Matt

[Rouckie]

for me your post is of great help! thanks

[lostrack]

Hey Kim,

How's the 3220 holding up? Are you using it regularly now?

Have you got a temp sensor in it? I'm interesting in installing one in the windings of my 3220 - the case gets to 100F so I'm sure the windings are warmer.

How's this project with Matt working out?

Enjoy the sun:)

[coldfusion594]

Subscribed!!! haha
I like the belt drive... very fancy

Do you have any pictures of the rig through its paces?

Just had to comment, thanks dude!