Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:15 pm

Harold in CR wrote:I have an idea that you might need to just raise the height of the connection of the tail end of the suspension shock, so it gets more travel without having that "Over-centered" action. The higher it is, up to a point, will allow much longer play of that shock.

So, put it back up where it was to start with, using a longer mounting arm from the swingarm?

I just can't picture what you propose, at this time.

Just what's in the picture itself; I just am not sure it will work that way, especially under heavy cargo loads.

I got a severe bone misalignment on the left side of my neck, that I need to get re-aligned.

Ow. What happened?

I'm about to start my first build, and, have already made 100 design changes. :roll: :roll: You guys keep coming up with new ideas that look so cool, I just need to back away, and come back later to figure out what you are after. 8) :)

Yeah, I keep seeing other people's projects that look much more like what I might want, but they arent' designed to do what I need them to do. By the time I adapt them to my needs and materials, I'd probably end up with what I have now. :lol:


Miles wrote:I'm not sure I understand your concern? It looks like you've got about 75 degrees of movement, by which point the frame is on the ground, anyway..... The falling rate is more of a worry.

Well, I'm not sure there *is* a problem. For some reason I can't determine, I am having trouble picturing how things are going to work in motion, and I have never really had taht problem before. I hope it isn't something caused by my most recent crash. :(

I'll probalby have to model it in 3D and animate it to see what happens, before I actually build it. I'm just much better with the physical stuff in my hands than with the modelling.

The spring itself is 800lbs/in, and I have a 650lbs/in, in the same size. I have no idea what the original ones on the shocks were, but they're a LOT softer and more than twice as long (and heavy), and compress fully if used the same way under the same load that barely compresses these. I could use them in a vertical application fo the shock, but not in a leveraged application like this.

I don't need very much actual travel of the swingarm. The worst potholes around here are a couple of inches to four inches, but I figure if I hit one of those I'll lose the wheel anyway, or crash the bike. Typically an inch or so for any bumps or holes I'd "safely" hit on the roads.

But the spring still has to work when loaded heavily, as well as when it's just me and the bike. I hope to be able to add 400-500lbs of cargo directly to the rear end of the bike (on the rails that will extend out from the main frame) and still have a little bit of shock action possible, to help save my poor rear wheel. ;) Minimum I have to be able to carry is 200-250lbs at a time, in addition to all the usual bike stuff, which I estimate will be ~120-150lbs, plus my own 150-160lbs.


TylerDurden wrote:Maybe an adjustable stop.
Purple = stop bracket
Green = bolts or levelling-feet used as adjustable stops.

I may do that just so I have a "lockout" of sorts. I guess a rubber block on the bottom of the foot or bolthead or face of the shock mount as a bumper in case of sudden slams.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Miles » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:32 pm

The acting direction will only be reversed when the link connecting the spring unit to the swingarm passes a line between the swingarm pivot and the link connecting the spring unit to the main part of the frame. The frame will be grounding before this point, so it's not going to happen. But, the way you have it set up, you will soon be into a falling rate, which is the last thing you want if you are going to have big variations in load. If you are only aiming for an inch or so of swing arm movement, it might be ok, though.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:02 pm

OK. I just don't think I'm going to *get* that little movement. Just straddling the frame on the toptube, backwards, and pushing my weight down onto it moves it about 3/4" or more (it's hard to tell exactly, until I setup a stick to mark the positions and measure the marks).

I've a feeling I may wind up having to put the shock in a more vertical position at the axle point, so it is not a leveraged application, using a lower-rating spring, to get what I want out of it.

But then the shock I have will be way too long for the way I'd like the bike to look/etc., and I also will have no option to have a removable cargo rail tail structure, as it will then be integral to the upper shock mount.

Below is a rough image of what I mean, with the light green being the cargo rail frame on either side of the wheel, and the dark green being the shock's top end support to the frame itself. The red swingarm pivots inside this split frame.
DSC04811b.JPG
DSC04811b.JPG (44.32 KiB) Viewed 579 times
Last edited by amberwolf on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Miles » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:22 pm

In terms of the change in spring rate, what matters is the angle subtended by the line between the swingarm pivot and the link connecting the spring unit and the main frame. Less than 90deg. it's rising, more than 90 deg. it's falling.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 am

I think I get it. I'm gonna have to make a model either CAD or physical to work with to figure this out. :?

In the meantime, while pondering, I cut apart the treadmill frame to get the tubing ends opened, and they are 1/16" wall thickness. Not as good as they could be, but good enough, I expect, and lighter than otherwise.
DSC04813.JPG
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The frame pivot points for it's stand are 1/8":
DSC04814.JPG
DSC04814.JPG (33.1 KiB) Viewed 1163 times



For a moment I pondered making fenders from these two curved end pieces, which are open on their inside curve:
DSC04817.JPG
DSC04817.JPG (47.78 KiB) Viewed 1163 times

but they are also 1/16" thickness, and very heavy to use just as fenders. Maybe if I was making a road-warrior survival bike that had to hold a gun emplacement over the wheel.... :lol:


There's also a few nut-and-bolts that are useful and quite thick/strong, plus some rubber anti-vibration/shock mounts that the former treadmill walking plate was bolted to.
DSC04812.JPG
DSC04812.JPG (52.78 KiB) Viewed 1163 times

Plus a "linear actuator" of sorts, with a small induction motor and a reduction gearbox. I doubt I'll be able to use that for anything, but if I put a DC motor on there I might be able to use it for extending/retracting stabilizers like AussieJester's bike has. I know it is powerful enough, as it is intended to lift and hold up the treadmill's entire base as incline is set higher on the treadmill.

The standoff/mounts have a screw and a nut embedded into the rubber, one at each end, and a gap in the middle, so I might be able to use them on my seat mounts to help cancel out vibrations in the seat frame. The webbing across the seat will damp those, too, but the less there are, the cushier the ride. :)
DSC04815.JPG
DSC04815.JPG (40.41 KiB) Viewed 1163 times

They screw into each other, making storage handy.


I don't know what the design of hte swingarm is going to need, so I am not cutting anything until I am sure. Each of those rails is about 5 feet long right now.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:11 am

Haven't gotten any further on the swingarm; been working a mixed-shift seven-day workweek this week, with next projected day off Wed of next week (maybe). Just some thoughts for today:


Since I'm building a custom rear swingarm anyway, I don't need to adhere to bicycle standards for anything on the rear wheel. :) So what kind of wheel would anyone suggest for the rear end of this thing, given the loads I expect to be able to haul on it? (200-500lbs cargo plus bike and rider up to 300lbs)

I'm assuming a moped tire and rim would be better suited to it; 24" bicycle is what I have right now for it. Whatever I get I am kinda thinking I might want a spare wheel for it, if it's different from bicycle stuff, so that I can still swap it out if I manage to break it, for times I don't have time to repair it right away. Also, I am pondering a "continental kit" sort of spare-tire mount for long-haul rides or for the heck of it when I want to show off the bike. :)


The rear wheel will either be just a regular hub and thread-on freewheel/cassette, or possibly an older Sachs coaster-brake style 3-speed IGH, of which I have two from Spinningmagnets (but one I have to figure out how to reassemble). Depends on exactly what I do with the transmission stuff and the NuVinci. Probably the standard hub would be better, because I can always get more of those, or even build one from scratch if I had to (or at least modify an existing one for extra width/etc).


I'm still thinking a 24" or 26" bicycle wheel for the front of it, but it'd be cool to have the moped stuff for that, too. I don't typically break front wheels like i do rear ones (which happens pretty much all the time), but I have broken a few here and there. Be nice to not have to worry so much about it with the local potholes and such.

The front hub will quite likely be (at least at first) one of the Fusin geared hub motors, as a limp-home motor, for when my experimental drivetrains fail the first few design trials. :lol:

I would actually like to use one of the *new* Fusin motor kits for that, as I was offered one to test and review by Fusin, but I can't afford the shipping costs. They are still willing to have me test it, if anyone feels generous enough to pay the $120 shipping to get it here. :lol:

So I will use the 24" wheel I laced up for CrazyBike2 with the secondary Fusin casing, and use either the 36V Fusin core off of DayGlo Avenger, or preferably one of the 48V Fusin cores Dogman gave me--but I have to test and/or repair both of those, as they got cooked in the motor meltoff testing. (also thinking of using one of them as the drive motor for the whole bike, too, driving the NV hub).

It's not a very well made wheel, given that I used a used rim and spokes to make it and didnt' spend a lot of time on it, but it works, and the tire is ok--same type I've used on teh back of CrazyBike2 since it's revival (actually before I mothballed it's chain drive, for some months). Still, replacing the tire, rim and spokes with something heavier-duty wouldn't hurt anything. I'm not exactly worried about weight too much on the bike, though the lighter the better.

Both front and rear I would like to put disc brakes on; I have bicycle-class rotors and calipers, though I have to make mounts and adapters for the calipers, and will need to come up with a solution to fit the rotors on the hubs, especially if I use the Fusin in front.

Anyhow, that's all my ponderings for the moment.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:22 am

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:00 am

I am not sure, but that kind of wheel might work. I have no experience with anything except bicycle wheels...I only know that the moped/motorcycle wheels ought to be heavier-duty, and able to take the loads and roads I want to put on this thing.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:32 pm

A motron wheel wouldn't be too bad. You could run bmx tires on it. The only issue is getting the right sprocket or chain to match the wheel unless you are running low power and can run through the freewheel side.


I would suggest 12 or 11ga spokes for whatever you build if it is a spoked wheel. Maybe a standard hub and 12 ga spokes into a 16 or 17" moped rim.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:55 pm

I mostly think I'd prefer to run small MC or moped tires on it, just cuz they *should* be tougher, with thicker sidewalls--I don't need sidewall expansion during bumps, really, since the idea is the FS frame will help out with that instead.

Since I have to run sprockets on the jackshaft/pivot anyway, there's little reason that I can't have different ones, to turn it into a ratio-changer in case the sprocket I have to fit to the rear wheel is not the size I really need there.

The current plan is that the output chain to the wheel will be on the right side, with left side of the jackshaft/pivot being driven by the disc rotor mount on the NV. If necessary that can be changed, using a much larger chainring on the NV spoke flange on the right side, to the right jackshaft/pivot input, and output to wheel on the left side.


I'd just about rather have a spoked rim, just becuse it means I can fix minor rim issues on the road by retensioning, whcih I can't do with a non-spoked wheel. THen again, there is probably less risk of problems with a non-spoked wheel; I'm not sure as I've never ridden those. I'll take your word on teh spoke sizes; I don't know enough to have much of an opinion. :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:03 pm

The mags are pretty tough, but you are right that once they get bent you are SOL. Many of the peds use 41 or 420 chain. Some of them are funny metric that is hard to get though.

You could easily use a Puch hub or wheel. They are pretty cheap and easy to come by. Do you care what the width of the hub is?
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:59 am

As long as I can get at least two of the same one, I don't care, as I am building the swingarm from scratch anyway. :)

Wider is probably better, as far as that goes.

I'd like at least two because I want a spare for when I break the first one and need to get it going again in a hurry, when I only have time to swap a wheel and not fix the broken one. It almost certainly will happen at some point, so I'd rather be prepared than down for days or longer. ;)

I *would* like to get the largest diameter wheel I can, so I have more space between the axle and ground for tilting over on turns while still having cargo as far below the axle line as I can get it. My reasoning may be faulty, though, so point that out if so.

Size of wheel won't really matter for gearing, as I have at least two or three, even four places to change that at. :)

BTW, in googling around for Puch pics and stuff, I found this puch five star disc brake set up:
https://www.treatland.tv/five-star-disc ... brakes.htm
mike-thomas-5-star-disc-brakes-2.jpg
mike-thomas-5-star-disc-brakes-2.jpg (48.24 KiB) Viewed 1121 times


and this sprocket:
https://www.treatland.tv/snowflake-rear ... rocket.htm
snowflake-rear-sprocket-2.jpg
snowflake-rear-sprocket-2.jpg (34.54 KiB) Viewed 1121 times


and some other puch stuff at teh same place
http://www.treatland.tv/SearchResults.a ... h=puch+hub
All way too expensive for me, but probably not bad for people that actually have money. :lol:
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby gogo » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:42 am

Be aware that the Minarelli-motored mopeds combined the pedal input with the engine's and don't have a freewheel on the wheel hub. Any of the Puch or Motobecanes do have a fixed left motor sprocket along with a freewheel on the right for the separate pedal drive chain.

I have a Jawa that has a fixed motor sprocket on the right and a freewheel on the left that is driven from a pedal crank that runs though the swingarm pivot!
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:13 pm

I still haven't been able to get back to this bike to build anything yet, with Bonnie being very sick the last several days. Easy to spend time at the computer since it's right here at the bed, where she is usually staying at (when we're not just outside sitting enjoying the daytime shade or the nighttime coolness, for her potty breaks). I think she's had a mini-stroke, as she is very weak and has problems with her left legs, balance, etc., and has trouble eating unless I put the food in her mouth, at which point she can chew/swallow ok. Had to switch to more liquidy foods to get enough fluids into here, though, and that started off the squirts, and she definitely isnt' doing as well now because of that.

She's such a tough girl it's hard to even tell if she's not ok with things, because she's always been the stoic independent type. Since the event, I've had to lift her front end with the walking harness, and walk along side her left side to let her lean on me as we shamble back and forth. Last couple days she can't really do that, though, and I've had to carry her, whcih she doesnt' usually like--she's tolerating it now, becuase she has to.

She is so persnickety that she will not even go potty or pukey in the house unless she has no choice at all--she pants and shifts around like a little kid holding it in to get my attention so we can go out....it's endearing but frustrating becuase it's harder on her to have to transition from inside to outside (cool to hot to REALLY hot), especially since I've been running the room's window A/C unit a bit to keep her cooler to feel better and maybe help her recover a bit (if she ever does). If she'd just go where she is I could clean it up...but she doesnt' want to. She's still trying to be like she was, and isn't ready to go yet, whcih is both happy and sad. :(


I am still pondering the swingarm problem, but haven't been able to mock anythign up to figure stuff out with. It'd help if I could figure out what wheel I will end up using.

The wheel problem...I will probably have to just design the swingarm with bike wheels in mind so I can get it going, and adapt it later to whatever I can scrounge for MC or moped stuff, eventually.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:04 pm

Bonnie died yesterday, so now it's just working six days a week (and dealing with the aftermath) that are keeping me from doing much with this. Got some other stuff to do (pack repair/testing) for someone else by hopefully Wed, then may be able to get back to this.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:01 pm

Sorry to hear about Bonnie. It's always tough to lose a good pet.

Now, YOU need to get some rest, before YOU drop. I just don't understand how you have gone this far, with injuries, clean-up and steady work, let alone care for all the dogs, sick or not.

Ease up just a little, Bud. :) :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Rassy » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:09 pm

My condolences on your loss of Bonnie. We are cat people and have lost several to old age, the previous one after 18 years. Time and other animals help you get over it. Take care.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:49 am

Totally OT for the thread, but I want to post this somewhere, and a new thread for it seems silly, since I have already used various threads of mine for way-OT life-stuff before.

I couldn't even really write anything about this yesterday, much less talk about it, without busting into tears and crying like a baby for hours. So this is kind of a (hopefully) catharsis and such, since yesterday all I could manage was the pictures I put up over in the Pets thread:
viewtopic.php?p=459658#p459658

Bonnie died in the middle of the night sometime well after midnight, I dunno exactly when. I'd been dozing momentarily like usual the last several days, waking after a minute or less and seeing if she'd drink more water or syrup/etc mixture, or nibble more food, which she usually would. This time when I woke and picked up her muzzle, her tongue was lolling out but her eyes were open, but unseeing, and her head was so incredibly relaxed I knew she was gone.

I just held her for a while, hardly feeling anything, unable to decide what to do. I got a flashlight and checked her eyes, with zero pupil reaction, which just made it that much more certain. When I picked her up I found her sphincters had let go, too, another telltale. It was HORRIBLE to feel her totally relaxed body, with no struggle against me picking her up, because she always detested that and wanted to do it on her own no matter what, and her head just flopping backwards was nightmarish. I almost threw up right then and there, and I did a few minutes later.

I could't think, really, coudln't decide anything, but knew i couldn't just leave her laying somewhere the other dogs might get to, because i didn't know what they might do--probalby nothing, but I didn't want to fidn out. So I put her in the biggest black plastic bag I had, and wrapped it over her, and put her in my kennel trailer so I could latch it shut to keep them out, as I had to start getting ready to go to work in a couple of hours or so; it wasn't even close to getting light outside yet I think. Not totally sure. I was so very tired I laid back down but could not sleep; I kept wondering what I could ahve done differently, and I kept having the impulse to go check her to see if maybe really she was just asleep, and I was wrong, and she was going to suffocate in that bag. Knowing it's stupid didn't make me feel any different, and I coudln't stop thinking that. I actually had to go check several times, whcih just added to the nightmarish experience and horror of it.

Eventually, after not actually sleeping anymore than minutes-long dozes (at most), each woken with a nightmare, my alarm went off and I managed to get ready for work, but the dogs wouldn't go outside for potty break, they were all standing aroudn the kennel (and i guess had been most of teh times I had gone to check on her after wrapping her up in there). I had to just hope they could hold it all in till i was scheduled to get back around 2pm or so.


As it turned out, I left work after less than two hours, because a few minutes after I got there I was taking care of the small animals, and one of the hamsters in our little hospital room had died overnight of whatever was wrong with it, little feet in the air, tongue sticking out, and that was almost stunning--it made me feel cold in a way I didn't understand, but I took out one of the little black bags we have to put deceased animals/etc. in, and put the hamster in it, and as soon as i did, EVERYTHING just hit me all at once, and I almost fell down with the power of the reaction, and the pain, and although I don't remember doing it, I guess my cry was loud enough to get the manager's attention in the office a couple of rooms away, though he didn't come see what it was becuase he was doing store-opening stuff that has to get done quickly. Later when i got keys from him for some habitats he asked what was wrong and I told him and he was very sympathetic but i couldnt' talk because I was crying so much, so i just went to keep going at the animal care.

I kept going and trying to do what needed doing, caring for the animals and stuff, but by the time I was done I couldn't hardly stand anymore, and there was zero chance I could help customers or run a register, so I gave him the keys back, told him all the animals were done, and that i couldn't do any more, punched out and kinda collapsed in a chair in the back room of the store, and kept crying for what must've been at least an hour. At some point I actually fell asleep for a few minutes, because I was still so exhausted from virtually zero sleep the last week of taking care of Bonnie. When I woke up, I was still on the edge of tears at every moment, and I rode home, with a few stops for emotionally overpowering moments along the way.

When I finally got home, the dogs were all happy to see me, and that helped, but I was still so exhausted and distraught that all I could really do was sit down, and I fell asleep again for a few moments over and over again, unable to even get up out of the chair for a while. Evnetually I got up and let them all out, and went with them to just be outside, where it was mostly cloudy and very breezy, and there was thunder now and then, but no rain yet.

I'd guess it was midday by then, from the sun, but I hadn't looked at a clock since punching out from work and didn't end up looking at one again until several hours later, at least. I knew I needed to do something with Bonnie, and I did not want to have her "disposed of", and I think cremation and keeping them around is pretty creepy, so I decided to return her to the earth, as I'd done with many dogs over the years especially when I lived in farm coutnry in Texas as a kid.

I picked one of her favorite spots to lay in the shade while waiting for Mom to come home, where she could see the end of the carport and most of the road, over by the northeast corner of the house. It already had a depression there from where she and other dogs had dug cool-pits to lay in, over the years. I deepened that a lot, and laid her in there facing the way she'd do when she was waiting. It just felt right. I also couldn't bring myself to clean and put away the last bowl she was using, so I put that in there with her still full. I know it's stupid, and wont' do anything but get bugs in there faster, but it felt right to do it, and wrong not to.

Since she was also Mom's dog, I wanted to put something Mom loved with her, that would last, and be visible, a reminder, a memorial without words, that even if no one else could understand, I would. So I picked the smallest Lantana bush, of which she'd planted many around the yards front and back, and dug out as much of it's root system as I could. If it had been a normal day I would've passed out from the heat doing this becuase I was not paying attention to anything including time, and hadn't even drank anything since getting up that morning. Actually probalby not since well before midnight the previous night; i can't remmeber for sure. But since it was cloudy and windy it was only about 90F, maybe less, lots less with the windchill factor. Felt like 70F.

I planted the lantana on top of her, and covered it all over, putting all the clumps of dirt with grass in them on the top layer so it'd grow back quicker. then watered it thoroughly, thinking all the while that if I was wrong she'd be drowning right now, whcih was really stupid (and I knew it then) because if she wasn't dead before she would've been after being in that bag for hours, and she was definitely gone when I put her in there. But I still could not help feeling it was all a horrible mistake. I *still* feel like that.

I still can't help wondering if I had stayed home from work and continously nursed her if she might've made it, or if I had been able to borrow money (that I would never be able to repay, most likely) for a vet, or this, or that, or this, or that, and it just keeps going thru my head. It's stupid, and I know it, and I still cant' help it.

This is a lot harder than all of the others I've lost except for Lady. I find myself having nightmares in which I've buried her but she turned out to only be sleeping, but when I figure that out, it's too late and I can't get her out. Or others where the rest of the dogs are suddenly just laying there with their tongues lolling out, eyes still open, just like Bonnie. Sometimes they are still alive, but can't move, and don't respond to me calling them.

And practically everything at work is reminding me of her...so I tear-up at all sorts of things, trying not to start crying again because I can't help anyone that way, and if I can't help I can't work, and I can't afford to not work. Missing any hours at all is simply impossible, and I wont' ahve any PTO available till later this month. The managers understand perfectly how I feel; pets are children to most of them, too--but it's still a business and someone that's unable to do a job can't just stand around and get paid anyway, of course.

And I typically use my dogs as examples in discussing things to help customers figure out what they need, and Bonnie has been a frequent example in a number of areas, because many people know border collies well enough to relate. I keep starting to use her as an example and then I realize I'm using the wrong tense, and I can barely continue; I'm sure it's obvious something's wrong becuase some customers get wierd looks on their face that I don't know what they mean, but none have said anything so far.


I want to curl up in a ball and forget the universe, but life doesn't work taht way. If I did not have th other dogs, I might take that option, but no one else will care for them if I don't, so, it's not an option.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Pure » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:21 pm

So very sorry man. I totally know how you feel. I love the bush idea, at least it's a living grave marker and will ensure she isn't disturbed for a very long time.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Solcar » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:16 pm

I'm very sorry about your loss. I wish everyone were as thoughtful as you are.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Whiplash » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:48 am

Awe man, I am so sorry, I know exactly what you are going through. I am sure you remember when my buddy had to go, and I still think about him all the time and its really hard not to cry.... it gets better, just remember, now they are not suffering.... again, sorry for your loss.....
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:44 pm

Well, the good news is I finally get a week's vacation starting this coming Sunday. I'd like to sleep thru the whole thing, but I doubt I'll get that chance. :lol:

Maybe I'll get something done on this bike in that time. Also gotta fix that Volgood pack:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30864&start=0
whcih I have had to put off from lack of testing time. Now I've gotta go and set up the Sorenson to charge a low cell-group in it, then test it some more after I get more sleep than the nap I almost took while riding home from work today, which left me with enough adrenaline in my veins to keep me from even thinking of dozing for the last couple of hours so far.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:58 am

I was going to try fixing up some of the welds, and finally welding the tabs for the coilover shock onto the frame (even though I may not use it later), and then cleanup all of them with teh grinder and flapdisk, but the welder is a complete POS and I simply CANNOT get the feed mechanism to reliably feed the wire. I've started another thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32006
about maybe getting ideas on how to fix that without buying another welder (or other parts) that I simply cant' afford.


Anyhow, until I fix the welder I cant' do much else with this bike except try to work out the swingarm stuff. I REALLY want to work on this bike during next week's vacation, though.

So all I did last few days here and there as I had time in daylight was to cut off that "block" of tubing just behind the front "seattube" that's going to be the steering pivot, and flapdisk/grind all the welds I could.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:23 am

I posted this in another thread about motor efficiency, but since the test I want to do will be done on this bike, here it is in this thread:



Regarding a statement by another that hubmotors are the most efficient motor to use, compared to running an RC motor thru the gears:

I would actually say "it depends", because if you use a hub motor and ride in stop-and-go traffic with few stretches where you can actually get up to any appreciable speed, but still must have it setup so that WOT gives you high torque for quick startups, as well as high speeds for the few stretches you do get to speed, it may not be as efficient overall as using a motor that runs thru the gears to be able to keep the motor closer to it's higher RPMs where it's not using as much current to produce the power output needed at various speeds.


If you do not need to worry about those stop-and-go conditions, and only compare them over long stretches at higher speeds, it is quite possible a hubmotor would be more efficient than a thru-the-gears setup.

But under stop-and-go conditions, it'll probably depend greatly on how long you can sustain higher speeds, and how often you must stop-and-go with startups of high-torque and power usage, for whether the hub would be more efficient or not.


I hope to be able to test this on my new bike build, by running my 9C 2807 first as a front hub on my commuter route for a while, and then running it as the frame-mounted motor driving a NuVinci hub that automatically adjusts ratios for best motor efficiency based on current usage and speed, on the same route for the same number of trips.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:38 pm

Progress on the swingarm. I decided I'll just build the swingarm itself, and design the pivot point at the same time, and then worry about how I will mount teh shock after that. Probably a dumb way to go about it, but at least this way I will be *doing* something, and I might be inspired along the way on how to do the rest of it. :)

I measured out enough swingarm length to go significantly beyond the dropouts, in case I decide to do a shock *behind* the rear wheel, going straight up to a lever arm that's part of the frame. Not likely, but at least it'll be there. If not, I'll just cut that off, when I start actually makeing the dropouts.
DSC04860.JPG
DSC04860.JPG (56.87 KiB) Viewed 1461 times

I may make them at the end of the swingarm, or I may make them *below* it, but probably for simplicity of chainline they'll be at the end of the arm, as shown in the drawn-on stuff on the rectangular tubing.
DSC04862.JPG
DSC04862.JPG (53.01 KiB) Viewed 1461 times

This will be a 90-degree rectangular swingarm frame, so that it is the same width all teh way from front to back. The two sides will be joined just forward of where the tire should end on a 26" wheel, even though I plan on a 24", so I have the option of the former if I need it.


The pivot itself I am considering various options, but since it needs to A) be buildable from what I have and B) have two rotating things inside it, one nested inside the other, the best I've thought of so far is using a steel rod (possibly two lengths of axle) that actually fixes to the bike frame's pivot point. Riding on that will be standard bearings from a scooter wheel, which are the typical "sealed" cartridge type.

Option A) Riding on that will be a tube constructed from tubing the size of the typical square-taper BB, that will have welded to it's ends some threaded bits for freewheels to mount to. The left end will probably be the open-threaded BB cup with lockring, so that I can lock the left side of the freewheel from unthreading itself in use. The rigth end just needs to be threaded.

Option B) riding on the rod/bearings will be a tube that has sprockets welded over it's ends.

Outside of either A or B would be the bearings and races and BB from the old one-piece cranks, as those are all just large enough diameter to clear all this stuff, IIRC. (I hae to actually dig one out to measure and be sure). The inner races would be welded to the tube from A or B above. The BB tube itself would be welded to the swingarm as it's pivot. Everything mounts into that, then is bolted to the "dropouts" on the rear end of the bike frame itself, and clamped in place.


I am having troulbe workign the mouse well enough to draw it up in Paint, so that will ahve to wait till alter.
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