Cafe Gus

[Danny Mayes]

Hi all.

Here is a work log of my build.

It's my first ebike. Well, technically it is my second. My first was a 24in BMX. I bought a HS35 from Hyena ( Cheers Hyena and good luck on your recovery bro) and a day after it arrived my 24in was stolen.

With the BMX gone and my dissatisfaction with the weight of the hub motor, i decided to do things properly

I sold the hub motor and AJ took pity on my bikeless ass and donated me this frame -

Frame.jpg (139.66 KiB) Viewed 4023 times

It is a 26 inch frame that we think had an ICE mounted on the rear. One of AJs mates collected it from the side of the road. Thank for passing it on AJ, i am very happy with this frame.

AJ.jpg (147.95 KiB) Viewed 4023 times

We chopped 2 inches out of the seat tube down at the bottom bracket and made some custom oversize drop outs for it. Rewelded the chain stays and bottom bracket back on and i gained 2 inches of pedal clearance and 2 inches of wheel base. The cranks were cut 2 inches shorter and will be redrilled and tapped. I needed to move the pedals up 4 inches because i am running 20in 48 spoke BMX wheels with ML75 Pirelli's -

I know a certain past member would be very fond of the frame design and i was going to call the bike the "001" in his honor but i am not the stirring kind, well not today anyway, so instead its "Gus" my daughters nick name.

i have most parts, a few i am still waiting on. Took full advantage of the strong aussie dollar as most everything came from the states.

I want to take a moment to make a few acknowledgements. This is maybe a bit strange in that the bike is not complete yet but so be it. Also please find yourselves in these acknowledgements because they really do extend to the greater ES community as these individuals are part of a whole. I am sure they would agree.

As you will see as the build progresses this bike is basically flat out copying everything Thud has developed with his builds. I am benefiting from what i can only imagine is hundreds of hours of development. I don't know you Thud but i salute you! Thanks for your generosity in sharing your discoveries.

As i mentioned above AJ donated the frame and the cutting, shaping and welding on it is his handy work. It is a honor to work with a pioneer and a generally high quality human being. Cheers brother, there is a shit load of work to go yet!

Matt recumpence for starting this whole shebang! Thank you!

As above Hyena. Even though i wont be using a thing i bought off you (except the CA), you still hooked me up with my first kit and took care of me so i salute you for that!

Justin for the CA. What the fek would i use if i did not have that? It's a treat. Thanks.

And to everyone else for the wealth of information on Lipo's, charging, all the controller info, motor KV's, blah, blah you get the point. Cheers

Also Kaz my wife is mega behind me with this so, thanks Darling.

Righto, i'll straighten my dress now and give the details -

I will be running 2 Turnigy 80mm out runners w halls
2 x 3077 12 fet controllers
2p3s 5000mah Lipo at 66v (proberbly upped to 3p3s at some point)
2 x Burties Timing Adapters.
Cycle Analysist
Some temp sensors and cellogs
Forks will use modified mini bike triple tree and cro-mo tubing with clip-ons

The two motors will be coupled with a T10 belt with one way bearings between motors and pulleys.
2 Speed of thuds design with some changes ( i wont have back cut dog teeth unfortunately so it aint the mastery of a Thud box but its got some tricks of its own - update next week)
Scooter hydros on hope floating rotor up front and something a bit different for the rear.

I am doing something kinky for the rear drive, AFAIK its unique so stay tuned. I will have pics up next week of the progress. Its a belt drive with a difference...

I am casting parts this weekend so some of what i am being illusive about will become clear. Some parts i am confident about and others i am not, so well see. The part for the rear drive is what i am not so confident about. I just hope the part contracts as planned

This bike could be a disaster or pay off but either way, along the way, I am definitely open to comments, suggestions and constructive criticism...

D

[Danny Mayes]

Parts List -

[EVTodd]

What in the heck was AJ doing with a friction drive frame? That's either an EV Warrior or the later version (can't remember the name) but it was originally friction drive for sure. I knew it! AJ is a closet friction drive fan.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

[Danny Mayes]

Hey Todd,

lol, Aj might be a few things closet but i don't think friction drive is one of them hehe.

Interesting to find out more about the frame though, cheers for that.

Spun out it was an electric! cool.

EV_Warrior_electric_bicycle.jpg (48.82 KiB) Viewed 3839 times

Well, had mixed results with the casting. This was the first time I cast aluminum and the first time i have done lost foam. Progress definitely, weather i can use it or not is another matter.

Foam Patterns Close Up.jpg (219.44 KiB) Viewed 3839 times

Pour.jpg (107.46 KiB) Viewed 3839 times

It was a long day yesterday. The furnace got some moisture in it so we took things real slow. We started at 9 am and finished 15 hrs later at 12am. It was a productive day however. We poured a total of 40kg of silicone bronze and 8kg of Aluminum. Our first pour was at 5pm by the time we sorted out the moisture issues but we were turning around 10kg of bronze every 75 min after that... same volume of ally was about 30

By now it should be evident what i am doing with the rear drive. The casting is a 131 tooth T10 pulley. It is the same diameter as a 20" rim. It will be cleaned up and fixed to the machined side wall of the rim. like i said, it's a bit kinky but i am achieving 11 to 1 reduction in a single stage. I think it should look cleaner than a big pulley mounted in the tradition manner. In this application it should be good for around 12kW.

You will see in the pic above another small mold next to the big mold of the pulley. this is a tradition pattern, not lost foam. I was a little ambitious ramming up this pattern in that mini little molding box and as we poured it, the side of it came away. So, i am gonna withhold details on that one for now but I will update with pics over the next 2 weeks when i get a result worth sharing.

With the pulley, i don't think it shrunk quite as much as 0.11% which i factored for. I will only know when i clean it up though. Once cleaned up, i will measure it and probably cast another one with my correct and now know contraction number. Also i think i might modify the tooth profile to accommodate me some room for minor diametrical errors.

So, not a complete result yet but half way there definitely!

D

[Hyena]

No worries for the small part I played in your build mate, happy to have helped.
I didnt know your bike actually got stolen, bummer.

The casting stff looks interesting! I take it you do this for work ? Or is it a very elaborate backyard set up ? That rear gear is huge! It would have probably been easier pinching one of AJ's wheelchair wheels and filing teeth into the "hand rail' part

I'm privy to the secret heart of this project, very keen to see how it turns out

[AussieJester]

Or is it a very elaborate backyard set up ?

It is that in deed

Great to see some progress on the casting finally D-MaN iron out the shrinkage issues
and your set!


@EVTodd HAHA...mate, i had nothing to do with procuring this frame it was donated to me by a mate who knows i collect old bike frames,
he seen it he stopped he picked it up haha.. I dont believe it is a friction EV though, he insisted there was an ice motor there with it and a set of bars with
a cable pull throttle, perhaps this Warrior company makes both ICE and EV friction drives? If you look at the rear of the frame of Dannys
it differs from the EV Warrior frame...hrmz....i need to come up with some derogatory name for these friction drives
would rev EVTod and Kepler up in one foul swoop teehehehe...j/k

Best of luck Danny catch you up soon mate

KiM

[Danny Mayes]

Thanks Hyena,

Yeah, It is a back yard set up. I am a mechanical design draftsman by trade and that's what i do for work. I do work for a small manufacturing company that have a foundry but it ain't stuff as interesting as EVs.

Foundry.jpg (227.23 KiB) Viewed 3805 times

Just found a pick of the lost 24in - was a sweet BMX -

24in.JPG (159.6 KiB) Viewed 3805 times

The bronzes we were doing yesterday were lost wax investment castings for a local artist.

Double headed Swelpy.jpg (152.17 KiB) Viewed 3805 times

He is doing a limited run of 5. The 2 he completed sold for 1600$ so he is doing well fro himself. It doesent look like much in the above picture but they clean up nice. The "Swelpy" is his concept. A swan with a Kelpies head. Iconicly West Australian indeed!

Yeah AJ, i like lost foam. i think i am going to use a lot more. Thanks for the suggestion...

Ahh. screw with holding, here is the other part -

2 Speed.jpg (99.26 KiB) Viewed 3805 times

D

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hey Todd,

lol, Aj might be a few things closet but i don't think friction drive is one of them hehe.

Interesting to find out more about the frame though, cheers for that.

Spun out it was an electric! cool.

EV_Warrior_electric_bicycle.jpg

Well, had mixed results with the casting. This was the first time I cast aluminum and the first time i have done lost foam. Progress definitely, weather i can use it or not is another matter.

Foam Patterns.jpg

Foam Patterns Close Up.jpg

Mould.jpg

Hot Furnace.jpg

Pour.jpg

Pulley.jpg

It was a long day yesterday. The furnace got some moisture in it so we took things real slow. We started at 9 am and finished 15 hrs later at 12am. It was a productive day however. We poured a total of 40kg of silicone bronze and 8kg of Aluminum. Our first pour was at 5pm by the time we sorted out the moisture issues but we were turning around 10kg of bronze every 75 min after that... same volume of ally was about 30

By now it should be evident what i am doing with the rear drive. The casting is a 131 tooth T10 pulley. It is the same diameter as a 20" rim. It will be cleaned up and fixed to the machined side wall of the rim. like i said, it's a bit kinky but i am achieving 11 to 1 reduction in a single stage. I think it should look cleaner than a big pulley mounted in the tradition manner. In this application it should be good for around 12kW.

You will see in the pic above another small mold next to the big mold of the pulley. this is a tradition pattern, not lost foam. I was a little ambitious ramming up this pattern in that mini little molding box and as we poured it, the side of it came away. So, i am gonna withhold details on that one for now but I will update with pics over the next 2 weeks when i get a result worth sharing.

With the pulley, i don't think it shrunk quite as much as 0.11% which i factored for. I will only know when i clean it up though. Once cleaned up, i will measure it and probably cast another one with my correct and now know contraction number. Also i think i might modify the tooth profile to accommodate me some room for minor diametrical errors.

So, not a complete result yet but half way there definitely!

D

Wow, that is quite the back-yard foundry! I was a pattern & foundry major when I attended Benson Tech (It's a high school, but was also one of the highest rated trade schools on the west coast) and those pics brought back memories!

I'm sure you know what you are doing, but if I may, it would appear one of your casts made a partial due to the lack of a few vents and a riser, especially where you have a relatively small diameter ring that you are casting.

I would try it again with a riser on the opposite end nearly as large diameter as your downsprue, and the vents could just be made with 1/8 inch brazing rod or the like, that would be removed from the mold once you have rammed up the sand casting, leaving some nice vents (I would think 4 - 5 on each side from sprue to riser for a total of 8 - 10) to help keep things flowing.

I just used a round riser as an example, you could just use square foam of course, but it was easier to do my ghetto drawing with!



I'm really intrigued with lost-foam casting! When I was in school, I had heard of lost wax, but not foam, I'm curious how well it burns off, I would imagine the foam would tend to "gas off" a lot when it burns leaving some bubbles in the casting?

Please also show more pics of your foundry set-up if you can, I can only imagine how much power/gas (I'm thinking it must be a natural gas fired furnace?) it takes to melt the metal?

How kewl to have that in your back yard!!

We had a enormous gas fired furnace with a pretty large crucible for aluminum & iron, but the bronze/brass was a self-contained furnace/crucible combo that was electric powered, I once almost lost my balance while on "dead" end of the handles, I had a near full leg cast on and my teacher on the two handle pouring side!!

I imagine it has worked very well for you, and is it a "paying" hobby in the sense do you get a enough work for folks like the artist you cast for to pay for your equipment/expenses?

I hope you got a good cut of that $1600 for the sculpture! Man, I am in the wrong business!

[Thud]

Hey Danny,
I had no idea you were doing investment stuff at that level in the back yard. We have the brain power here to design & build a nice induction furnace that would let us cast some exotics in a controlled atmosphere.......would you like to melt a 10#s of stainless in 15 minutes?

I would like to see your burn out oven & share some recipies for investment is your doing home brew....I have been meaning to put together an ellectric oven for the controlled temps required for a proper burn out of investments.

as for lost foam....too easy. I would have had a few more runners to help feed metal into the part as fast as possible (but you got it!)If your in loose sand venting is pointless, in green sand you will see benifits. Also any time you can fill from the bottom up the more consistant your results will be.

I havn't done much lately but most of my casting stuff was for self indulgent sculpture & card protectors for my poker tournament friends. heres a couple weak pics.

a "tree" of brass card protectors

ring patterns:

& cast aluminum rings just for fun.


You prolly have these links but i will post a few for the tourests around these threads.
http://www.foundry.ray-vin.com/

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hey Danny,
I had no idea you were doing investment stuff at that level in the back yard. We have the brain power here to design & build a nice induction furnace that would let us cast some exotics in a controlled atmosphere.......would you like to melt a 10#s of stainless in 15 minutes?

I would like to see your burn out oven & share some recipies for investment is your doing home brew....I have been meaning to put together an ellectric oven for the controlled temps required for a proper burn out of investments.

as for lost foam....too easy. I would have had a few more runners to help feed metal into the part as fast as possible (but you got it!)If your in loose sand venting is pointless, in green sand you will see benifits. Also any time you can fill from the bottom up the more consistant your results will be.

I havn't done much lately but most of my casting stuff was for self indulgent sculpture & card protectors for my poker tournament friends. heres a couple weak pics.

a "tree" of brass card protectors

ring patterns:

& cast aluminum rings just for fun.


You prolly have these links but i will post a few for the tourests around these threads.
http://www.foundry.ray-vin.com/

Good point Thud, I guess I just assumed it was green sand, I couldn't even remember the formula or mixture we used exactly (just the right amount of clay and moisture mixed in) but I suppose you could make vents from foam too, looked to me like he had at least one that didn't fill out well from the pics.

[AussieJester]

as for lost foam....too easy. I would have had a few more runners to help feed metal into the part as fast as possible.

hrm...I do believe this is where I say "I told you so" Danny boi

Pity FrankG's website Theworkshop.CA is no longer online, Frank had quite a wealth of information on lost foam casting...

KiM

[Danny Mayes]

looked to me like he had at least one that didn't fill out well from the pics.

Your right on. The first one was incomplete. For the second one i rammed the sand much higher up the sprue and the increased head pressure drove the metal the full distance. Idea as per here (3rd pic down) -

http://www.buildyouridea.com/foundry/lost_foam_howto/lost_foam_howto.html

Also any time you can fill from the bottom up the more consistant your results will be.

This is why i had the runners from only one side. The foam mold was sitting on about a 5 deg inclination so i was running a little uphil the whole way. In hine sight I guess i could have done this with more runners anyways...

I will definitely add more vents using wire as you suggest li-ghtcycle cause as Thud suggests, i am in greensand...

hrm...I do believe this is where I say "I told you so" Danny boi

Get back in your box you Can you ask Frank to restore his sight now??

We have the brain power here to design & build a nice induction furnace that would let us cast some exotics in a controlled atmosphere.......would you like to melt a 10#s of stainless in 15 minutes?

Umm YES!

That is some serious brain power Thud and beyond me. I have only ever seen one home attempt of induction but it worked very well. I would love to go induction. It's such a neat solution. Then I could save my big furnace for when i want to cast 25kg in a single pour. (a crane is on the agenda, in the distant horizon mind you).

You got a nice surface on your card protectors...

Please also show more pics of your foundry set-up if you can, I can only imagine how much power/gas (I'm thinking it must be a natural gas fired furnace?) it takes to melt the metal?

I have a blog. Let me update it tonight and I will post the link tomorrow. It has all the details. Yep, It's gas.

I would imagine the foam would tend to "gas off" a lot when it burns leaving some bubbles in the casting?

The surface of the incomplete one was the texture of the sand and very good, no pitting. The second (complete one) was terrible, practically embarrassing (notice no close up photos posted above ). It was 11pm at night after working for 14 hours and the ram up of the mold left a bit to be desired. Also, i had the metal too hot for fear of it chilling in the mold again and the result was not so pretty. All stuff that will get ironed out in the next few melts...

Thud, we use the heat treatment furnace at work to burn out and bake the molds -

Heat Treat Furnace.jpg (245.82 KiB) Viewed 3710 times

It only ever goes to about 600deg so we are falling a bit short of the 800(Celcius) required to actually bake the plaster but it hasen't been an issue yet. The first layer is a mix of plaster of paris and sand. Quite heavy on the sand side. Then less sand and more plaster as the layers go out and then we put this real groggy stuff on (Dan the artist gets it from somewhere) Its got bits of wood and little bits of fire brick and stuff in it to add some tensile strength. We have had some problems with the integrity of the molds at the beginning as done like this the molds are quite delicate. With the last four done on the weekend Dan managed to eliminate any of those issues.

If i were doing the molds my self i would use shiralite or a similar castable refactory. It is strong as hell. Will give as good a finish as plaster and does not require high temp firing. It is about twice the price of plaster though.

I would like to build an electric oven for burning out and baking our investment molds too. And for heat treating Timmia's frames I wanna go electric so I can ramp up and down the temps over time using an andrino or something similar. i have all the refractory and insulation i need but i only have single phase power where the foundry is set up (It's at my Dads place, three cheers for Keithy!) so i cant get the joules i need for a decent size oven. I was thinking hybrid but bhaa, it aint enough of a priority atm...

Thanks for the the input fellas, it's much appreciated. I will implement your suggestions when i do the next pulley.

Also i think i will go to the blue (non expanded) polystyrene. AJ suggested it. It should give me a better surface finish. I wanna get to the place where all i have to do to clean up the pulley is machine one side wall for fixing to the rim. Well, that's the game anyways.

I cleaned up the pulley a fair bit last night. As it turns out the contraction was spot on. Well within 0.5mm on the diameter. If the contraction turns out to be reliable and i can achieve the surface finish i want than this will be a very economical way of producing these pulleys...

[Danny Mayes]

BTW Thud, i would very much like to see the development of the induction furnace as you propose. It would be a great learning curve for me to follow it. At this stage i doubt i would make one this decade but you never know...

This is the one i spoke of earlier. Very cool -

http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Elec_IndHeat1.html

D

[Thud]

LOL,
I have talked to Tim a few times...Hes a young genius to be sure. loves his ellectronics & I miss his abrasive wit on the old metal forum. (most hated kid on the internet LOL) I knew he was planning to make those as "kits" but he went off to colledge & i haven't looked him up for a while.

I been using an old furnace as a kiln for my homeade crucibles & investment burn out....the big issue is temp controll up or down..Just too fast in either direction..also had thoughts of fabbing a down draft kiln just for the purpous...too many projects too little time you know the story.

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

scratching my head here, that's a strange nickname for a girl.
gussandra...
gusseopeia...
i know, gusalina.
does she have a brother name sue?

[Danny Mayes]

LOL,
I have talked to Tim a few times...Hes a young genius to be sure. loves his ellectronics & I miss his abrasive wit on the old metal forum. (most hated kid on the internet LOL) I knew he was planning to make those as "kits" but he went off to colledge & i haven't looked him up for a while.

Classic, what a small world. A kit for that would be great. That would make it within reach.

I been using an old furnace as a kiln for my homeade crucibles & investment burn out....the big issue is temp controll up or down..Just too fast in either direction..also had thoughts of fabbing a down draft kiln just for the purpous...too many projects too little time you know the story.

Nice one on making your own crucibles. Would love to get there eventually. What burner are you using? It took us 18 months to build this furnace, so yeha, don't i know it...

scratching my head here, that's a strange nickname for a girl.
gussandra...
gusseopeia...
i know, gusalina.
does she have a brother name sue?

LOL, no but she does have a brother called Leaf Sun Fairy River Peace.

Her name is Augusta Belle, we didn't see Gus coming when we decided on the name, We thought the short version would be Augie, but no Gus or Gusty. She is such a Gus head, it suits her to a tee.

Gusty aka Captain.jpg (152.8 KiB) Viewed 1647 times

Here is the link to the foundry blog for those interested - http://www.perthfoundry.blogspot.com

D

[AussieJester]

She has your eyez Danny...and your hair too erm...i mean lack of hair hehehee... She is a cutee though

KiM

[Danny Mayes]

Your right mate. It's weird, she has the exact same hair line as me. Only difference is, hers is gonna grow back. I got about as much chance growing another arm.

D

[Danny Mayes]

Can anyone recommend a good free ware program for compressing and editing video? And whats the story with uploading to you tube? does it apply its own compression? or do i have to compress the video first?

Also Li-ghtcycle, you suggested putting a riser in as per your drawing, what perpose does that serve? I did have a vent that was about 5mm diameter to ensure i got full fill...

Thanks

D

[AussieJester]

Can anyone recommend a good free ware program for compressing and editing video

Can hook you up next time your up with some video editing software ifz you likes Danny... :: wink ::

Windows Movie Maker will get you through till then if you iz desperate mate.


KiM

[Danny Mayes]

OK, thanks mate. Will look into WMM for now.

Cheers

[Hillhater]

Also Li-ghtcycle, you suggested putting a riser in as per your drawing, what perpose does that serve? I did have a vent that was about 5mm diameter to ensure i got full fill...
D

Incase Li-ghtcycle doesnt catch this ...
... Risers will help to quickly vent gasses and float dross out of the mould, but primarily they act to backfill shrinkage as the metal cools..to prevent voids etc.
Especially useful on thin section castings.

[Danny Mayes]

Thanks Hillhater. OK, the backfilling shrinkage part, that i didn't know. Makes perfect sense.

Cheers

[Hillhater]

No prob's .. remember though, risers need to be "big" enough so that they solidify last, or they cannot backfil as the casting solidifies.

[Danny Mayes]

Yeah cool, got that.

This is what i was thinking for my next go. I have got smal 5mm x 5mm vent/risers. They will provide nothing for back fill shrinkage. Maybe i should make them much larger. What do you think?

Poly Pully Mold.jpg (37.53 KiB) Viewed 1626 times

Lat time my small runners acted as gates. they seemed to work well. This time my logic is different. here is the gate area.

Poly Pully Mold Gate.jpg (84.48 KiB) Viewed 1626 times

May be i should extend the runner to the outer edge? This mold is much thinner than the last but the profile is much more disirable. Again any input very welcome.


D