Luke's commuter bicycle. What Non-hub is all about.

[liveforphysics]

I found some individual encoder chips on line.
Is it a trivial thing to mount them like we do hall's, or is this not possible?
OH...a $50 encoder...good enough!

You gotta drill a pocket into the back of the motor shaft for the encoder magnet to get glued in. Then just some structure you can afix the encoder package to sit over that magnet. Then you need to clock the encoder to be aligned properly, which requires an o-scope tinkering. Then you make sure you've got which is which for sine/cosine sorted out, send that to the sevcon's encoder input, and you're ready to begin configuring the sensor to the controller and start dyno tuning.

[Kiwi]

have you got a NZ guy working with you, thought I caught a kiwi accent in the video?

Its great to see an electric bike with some power that doesn't leave you yawning.
Nice work.

[RWP]

I found some individual encoder chips on line.
Is it a trivial thing to mount them like we do hall's, or is this not possible?
OH...a $50 encoder...good enough!

You gotta drill a pocket into the back of the motor shaft for the encoder magnet to get glued in. Then just some structure you can afix the encoder package to sit over that magnet. Then you need to clock the encoder to be aligned properly, which requires an o-scope tinkering. Then you make sure you've got which is which for sine/cosine sorted out, send that to the sevcon's encoder input, and you're ready to begin configuring the sensor to the controller and start dyno tuning.

Thanks Luke - You da MAN for your manly bike!!!

OK then...is the encoder signal anything like a hall signal that would connect to a controller that is more common to what we are currently using?
Guess I am trying to find a way for a mere mortal to do this

[amberwolf]

OK then...is the encoder signal anything like a hall signal that would connect to a controller that is more common to what we are currently using?

No, not if you're talking about common ebike controllers like the Infineon/Lyen/Crystalyte/Ecrazyman/XieChang stuff; that's the problem I am asking about in my post on the previous page and in my powerchair thread.

You'd have to convert the sin/cos into the hall-per-phase types those are expecting. Can be done with either analog electronics or with an MCU and some programming, but it won't give you the resolving power of directly using the sin/cos signals, AFAIK--you're still limited to whatever the controller itself accepts for input. It does let you use encoding outside the hot motor, at least (but really, you could do that with the regular halls, too, if you add a second set of magnets just for the halls to detect. Or you could use optical sensors to do the same job the halls did, and a light/dark ring in the pattern of the magnets).

[Spacey]

Luke that bike is awesome, damn your making me want to get rid of my frock motor on my Greyborg now lol

[jingles98]

I think we've all updated our Christmas list for one of these bikes Luke. Like i said before mate, you are a God.

[gensem]

How much thrust this thing puts on the ground?
300 pounds?

[Jozzer]

[liveforphysics]

:mrgreen:

Thanks Jozz. I always value you work and input.

[Whiplash]

Hey Luke,
just a crazy question, what would you need to get to setup a drive system like this, say if one of us sent you the motor/controller and had you set it up similarly? I would LOVE to build a frame and just be able to slap a drive into it like this!!

[liveforphysics]

Hey Luke,
just a crazy question, what would you need to get to setup a drive system like this, say if one of us sent you the motor/controller and had you set it up similarly? I would LOVE to build a frame and just be able to slap a drive into it like this!!

Its just too much time. Hundreds in labor to do the machineing to mount the sine/cosine, hours of time on the scope and dyno. I couldn't do it cheaply, and the parts cost is high all ready.

[Ypedal]

I think u should have to earn this the hard way!

[Whiplash]

I think u should have to earn this the hard way!

Awe, coome oooon! LOL! I want it the easy way!


Thanks anyway Luke! I figured as much but I thought I would ask...

[liveforphysics]

I think u should have to earn this the hard way!

My ticket price to get here was around $10,000usd in parts turned to smoke. That includes ~$2,000usd in wasting my time with RC controllers alone, never having something that lasts more than a couple of minutes of my riding. Then going to bigger ebike controllers, of which, the only ones I never killed were the original hand-built Method's controllers, but my quest for power went beyond there limits. Smoked a number of motors that cost over $1,000usd each along the way, went from brushless to brushed, and then back to brushless. Went from 5lbs motors to 15lbs motors to 25lbs motors, each time finding that while the POWER could be similar, the LIFESPAN and DURABILITY just increases directly with the size of the things. I could achieve the same performance with a motor 1/5th the size, but I've all ready played that game more than anyone else, and it just ends in fickle designs that constantly break and smoke.

In the end, the simplicity and durability is just worth it to carry an extra 10-15lbs of motor around.

[gor.]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same

- to test encoder?

[liveforphysics]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same

- to test encoder? or price-vise?

I have plenty of Agni motors, including silver-brush fitted custom motors, and motors setup and tuned by Cedric himself, and made a couple of Agni bikes. This is simply more power than an Agni is able to achieve, and this is coming from a guy who has run them on 120v with a 1200amp controller and Cedric Lynch doing the dyno tuning himself.

This is the creator of the Agni motor, Cedric Lynch, personally helping me setup my BLDC motor harness. Cedric is such an awesome and unique guy, I have nothing but love, respect, and awe for the man. If he gets a motor to me that can put down more power than what I'm currently laying down without melting in 10seconds, I will very happily swap over to it in a second.



One of my early Agni bikes in action:

[Alan B]

I see my video is doing well there (the first "launch" video). I have a bunch of hi resolution stills from the Marin trip I should get to you sometime.

[Kurt]

Luke,
when you get that new smart phone you posted about. I would love to see some G readings and perhaps some acceleration times 0 - 60. There is a ton of free Programs available for smart phones.

Usually loud bikes-cars give the sensation of speed and the quite smooth ones look slow even if they are fast. Your bike is dead quiet and still looks dam fast on camera so must be FAST!

Making the torque at the motor and keeping the gearing Simple is the way to go. It sounds so smooth and quite with just enough zing to remind you its a beast .

Well done

ps, Not to take anything away from your home made bike. But I wonder how that motor-controller combo would go in a 125 - 250 modern light weight aluminium sports bike frame - stripped down? That way you get the frame geometry, tyre selection , brakes and suspension package designed to handle the power. Not to mention it would look nice to . You could most likely fit more battery in the frame to. Yes it would become a motor bike and I understand the benefits of keeping it as a peddle bike but for people looking for a light weight E motorbike it looks like a good option.

Kurt

[liveforphysics]

You end up with a TTXGP bike, but you also enable the ability to melt your motor down from sustained high speed aero loads that seldom occur in practice on a bicycle.

[mr.electric]

Luke,
Do you have an opinion of the stock golden motor controller for use in a low -mid power set up
http://www.goldenmotor.com/Dimensions-300A.jpg
I imagine it uses hall sensors that come installed in the golden motor.

[Kurt]

I guess it just goes to show one advantage of ICE is. Sustained hi power handling.

Kurt

[liveforphysics]

Luke,
Do you have an opinion of the stock golden motor controller for use in a low -mid power set up
http://www.goldenmotor.com/Dimensions-300A.jpg
I imagine it uses hall sensors that come installed in the golden motor.

I've got one. It's 6x6 of TO220 package fets (36 fets), with a good layout and good power busing. Crappy caps, and sadly, the control firmware is glitchy and they occasionally just explode.

The Sevcon on this bike is 16 x 6 fets (96 fets), and it's rock solid an reliable, ONCE TUNED. It's like a death in the family to get tuned, it's going to leave you with a week of frowning and restless sleep, and thousands of dollars in labor with an expert dyno tuning your setup to get it to operate. Once you have it operational, it's like stepping into heaven everytime you operate the vehicle.

Which is like exactly backwards of a Kelly, which takes about 20minutes to get everything hooked up and adjusted and tuned, followed by a lifetime of hating all it's glitchy crap performance, ending in it's death at some random moment when you need it most.

[Kiwi]

I haven't laughed out loud for a while, but the first scene cracked me up.
Nothing like a validating a disclaimer.

..."you know this bike is dangerous"...."yes".....

[mr.electric]

Wow good explanation.
I just heard the Golden motor and mars motor are almost exactly the same.
I also heard the mars motor will have an encoder version very soon, some samples already shipped.
Since mars and golden are in direct competition golden will probably come with an encoder sooner or later as well.
If one person figured out the settings for a certain model golden motor with a certain model sevcon would the setting work for another identical motor controller combo?

[voicecoils]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same ...

...
This is the creator of the Agni motor, Cedric Lynch, personally helping me setup my BLDC motor harness. Cedric is such an awesome and unique guy, I have nothing but love, respect, and awe for the man. If he gets a motor to me that can put down more power than what I'm currently laying down without melting in 10seconds, I will very happily swap over to it in a second.

Nice to see your bike continue to evolve, looks like heaps of fun! Precise motor control over full RPM range and any motor loading seems to still be just out of reach for most of us.

Can you recap your dyno results for the HPM-10KW and Agni 95R? What peak and continuous power outputs are realistically achievable?

Jozz has posted some preliminary dyno results for the Agni 111RDR and thinks 15kW cont. output will be possible. I wonder if it could meet the performance you're getting from your current setup. They weigh 11.9kg, a bit more then the 95R due to thicker magnets. For high power ebikes (or low power e-motos) brushed motor setups still offer appealing simplicity for DIY builders.

Any thoughts?