White Industries 8mm pitch belt pulley freewheels coming? :)

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

Some cool info for you (and I want your input).

I am working on various projects right now. Others are working on projects related to what I am doing and a couple projects are a collaboration of myself as well as others who have giftedness or contacts in a critical field.

One of those projects is a belt drive system consisting of a White Industries freewheel with 8mm teeth (flanged obviously). We are also working on a 8 inch diameter 8mm pitch pulley with 130mm bcd hole spacing. This pulley could be used in conjuction with our ISO to BCD chainring adapter or as a crank pulley.

This is NOT vaporware! We are in contact with White Industries about this right now working out the details. We are also looking at outsourcing versus in-house machining of the large pulley (hobbing the teeth). This is something that we are pushing hard to do. I did much work over a year ago prototyping and debugging the system that used the Sprague freewheel with a system similar to this. So, I know what pitch, width, and tooth engagement works. The freewheel side of this project is being persued by one of my engineers/machinists that does other work for me.

The cost for the freewheel pulley looks like it will be in the $150 range (this is a complete custom White Industries freewheel). The large pulley will probably be around $75 to $80. Then there is the ISO/BCD adapter and belt. So, this will be a $325 to $340 system with the ISO/BCD adapter. So, not cheap, but not totally out of the ball park either!

Now, my question is this;

Who is interested in committing to at least one freewheel at $150? We need to know because there will be a multi thousand dollar investment in the freewheel portion of this project.

So, who is game?

Matt

[Tench]

Hi Matt, what is the width of the belt used on these going to be?

Simon.

[johnrobholmes]

This would make an awesome final stage for a BB drive! I want!

Good golly, talk about icing on the cake of your drive systems. And you probably have so much more going on that isn't public yet...

[recumpence]

We are looking at 12mm right now.

Matt

[recumpence]

This would make an awesome final stage for a BB drive! I want!

Good golly, talk about icing on the cake of your drive systems. And you probably have so much more going on that isn't public yet...

Yes, I agree this would make a good second stage. That is part of what interests me as well.

Anyway, we need to find out what kind of market there is, realistically, for this (the freewheel mainly because the other parts can be made fewer at a time).

Matt

[GITech]

hi matt, what makes this freewheel special? we need more details about it to know if it is something that we need or want. does it have dual bearing support? why double the price over an eno 22t or a sick bike parts flanged? $325+ is in the parking lot behind home base for half of one stage of reduction, IMO.

sent from my phone hence the crappy format..

later,
Jay

[lostrack]

Nice work Matt!

What sort of tension will you need to run to keep a good level of power going through?

What's the maximum length for sensibly running a belt?

Sounds like it could be great. Stoked you're getting the big boys involved

[REdiculous]

$325+ is in the parking lot behind home base for half of one stage of reduction, IMO.

$325 buys a pretty nice bicycle (or rent for a month) so I couldn't see spending that and having only a few parts to show for it. No doubt the results would be as close to perfection as you could get but that's just how I feel.

[recumpence]

hi matt, what makes this freewheel special? we need more details about it to know if it is something that we need or want. does it have dual bearing support? why double the price over an eno 22t or a sick bike parts flanged? $325+ is in the parking lot behind home base for half of one stage of reduction, IMO.

sent from my phone hence the crappy format..

later,
Jay

Totally missing the point. John's question regarding the second stage of my crank drive was merely a secondary observation. The reason we are looking at this is as a final drive for those looking to drive the rear wheel with a belt. Many frames will not handle a belt drive because of the lower chain stay. However, trikes, recumbents, and many full suspension bikes can use a belt final drive.

At any rate, I still get emails from people looking for a belt drive to the rear wheel. My prototype belt drives made a year or two ago were not easy to make in any quantity, hence the drive to talk to White Industries for a good quality belt cog freewheel. However, if we perceive there is no market for this, we will not move forward with it.

Matt

[biohazardman]

You can count me in for the freewheel and the rest as well. I was just sitting here thinking about how I was going to do the drive as soon as I get another frame that is. Nice quiet belt drive would be great.

[mdd0127]

So, this would be a white industries freewheel but instead of having sprocket teeth, it would have 8m pcgt teeth?
What's the minimum tooth count? Dual row bearings? Why not use the 3/4 sprague clutch instead of a clicking freewheel? I'm trying to kick the e-bike habit but not doing very well. This is very intriguing at the least.

[kevo]

Matt,
Count me in as interested and as a buyer.

[waxman123]

I am in!!!

[GITech]

How does the FW mount? Threaded, 6-bolt, broached, custom?
What is the (estimated) tooth count of the FW pulley?
What is the (estimated) tooth count of the 8" dia pulley?
From lostrack;
What sort of tension will you need to run to keep a good level of power going through?
What's the maximum length for sensibly running a belt?
From mdd:
What's the minimum tooth count?
Dual row bearings?
Why not use the 3/4 sprague clutch instead of a clicking freewheel?


Estimated belt width is 12mm. Thanks.

Just tryin to help.

Pics or drawings?

Later,
Jay

[recumpence]

Belt length means nothing as far as belt tension and power handling.

It looks like 22 tooth is doable, maybe 24 tooth depending on a few things.

The 8 inch pulley would be 80 tooth I believe.

The sprague clutch is a nightmare to setup properly (long story there) and expensive. It costs even more than the WI-FW.

This would be a standard threaded ID with single row bearing. Dual row DRASTICALLY increases cost, through the roof and is not needed with this setup.

I am not sure how to measure belt tension required. I can say on my belt system on my trike, the belt is snug but not super tight. There is precious little drag when coasting.

Matt

[mdd0127]

My sprague clutch was pretty cheap....but I'm backing it up with a csk 25......so I have no idea what it will handle on its own. If the FW had dual row bearings, I'd be interested. 22 and or 24 t would be perfect too. Speaking from my experience though, I really don't think the single row bearing will last long and if it does, belt alignment might be screwey ......unless it's needle bearings and even then, I'm still not sure...

[recumpence]

Our freewheel is, essentially, what Phil Wood sells (for $293!) . Theirs uses a single bearing.

Matt

[johnrobholmes]

I've never had a problem with quality single row bearing freewheels that are used as intended. Matt does have another double bearing solution for the issue that arises with crank drives. As far as I can tell this would not be the part used on the freewheeling cranks, but a part used as the final stage of the motor reduction.

[rodgah]

im in as always

[regmeister]

Matt, I'm interested

[full-throttle]

Is that it?

[recumpence]

That is not ours.

It looks pretty, though!

Matt

[full-throttle]

Actually it does look like the Phil Wood one

Looks $$$

[RWP]

Nice work Matt.
I am in for the set - both the freewheel and the final drive.

[ryball]

If you are still on track with this, I would be in for at least a freewheel.