Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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jonescg
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by jonescg » Jul 18, 2013 7:28 am

AussieJester wrote:Reminds me of the old saying... "I would rather push my Harley than ride Jap crap..."
So...I would Rather push my HOBO e-bike than ride a girlie frock powered e-bike :-P
When i need a boat anchor though Rodney, your the man ill come see ;-P
KiM
Funny thing was, many a Harley needed to be pushed. I heard that Harleys get really good fuel economy...
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:lol: :lol:

Edit better pic :)

Rodney64
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 18, 2013 7:50 am

jonescg wrote:
AussieJester wrote:Reminds me of the old saying... "I would rather push my Harley than ride Jap crap..."
So...I would Rather push my HOBO e-bike than ride a girlie frock powered e-bike :-P
When i need a boat anchor though Rodney, your the man ill come see ;-P
KiM
Funny thing was, many a Harley needed to be pushed. I heard that Harleys get really good fuel economy...
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:lol: :lol:

Edit better pic :)
Kim, really nice bike for you.

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Hyena
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Hyena » Jul 18, 2013 6:38 pm

AussieJester wrote:WoW.. nice wobble...who did you get to lace the wheel? Just so i dont make the mistake
of using the same guy!
Hah, his name is Sum Yung Boi.
And it's not actually wobbley, it's just because it's held by one axle in the unbolted down vice and it's shaking the whole bench :lol:
You can see as it spins up faster when it's stable it's actually quite smooth.
Anyway never mind that, where's the pics of this monster Kelly ?
Internal shots would be cool too if you feel like lifting the lid.
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AussieJester
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by AussieJester » Jul 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Hyena wrote:
AussieJester wrote:WoW.. nice wobble...who did you get to lace the wheel? Just so i dont make the mistake
of using the same guy!
Hah, his name is Sum Yung Boi.
And it's not actually wobbley, it's just because it's held by one axle in the unbolted down vice and it's shaking the whole bench :lol:
You can see as it spins up faster when it's stable it's actually quite smooth.
Anyway never mind that, where's the pics of this monster Kelly ?
Internal shots would be cool too if you feel like lifting the lid.

CHRiS will be around in a few hours if he wants to pull it apart hes more than welcome to
i wont be though, its seems to be sealed on ends with silicone too..i didn't go with
the waterproofing option though, the screws are also epoxied i guess their way
of knowing if anyones opened the controller..Ill grab some pics today anyways Jay, i still haven't
mounted it, my pension wasn't paid as i forgot to inform them of monies earned with the PBF BUT!
i haven't worked due to being school holidays, suffice it to say, im near broke
till Monday (no bills though finally WOOOTZ!), i need to purchase some plexi to mount this controller. Ill be rapt
if CHRiS and I get the wheel spinning today, have tape can ghetto
the controller on so CHRiS can "test" ride the bike hehehe MONooOoOooOs LoL

Back soon chaps

KiM

p.s Rodney, put a Ducati on that trailer and i would have it instead of the e-bike in a heart beat!!

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jonescg
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by jonescg » Jul 18, 2013 7:49 pm

I've got some 3 mm acrylic KiM, I'll bring that around too shall I? It's not as good as polycarb, but should do the job.

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AussieJester
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by AussieJester » Jul 18, 2013 7:56 pm

jonescg wrote:I've got some 3 mm acrylic KiM, I'll bring that around too shall I? It's not as good as polycarb, but should do the job.
That would be great thanks CHRiS!! Bring your helmet and gloves to ::wink::

KiM

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 18, 2013 8:02 pm

Hopfully you'll get it running today Kim. Never owned a Duc but always liked the look. Bring your leathers too Chris.

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jonescg
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by jonescg » Jul 19, 2013 9:20 pm



Got it to turn a wheel, but the timing sounds off. Toolman2? Got some ideas?

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Willow » Jul 20, 2013 1:45 am

...reading through this thread again... Hot Diggity!... superb build Kim, as always. Super clean system, super styl'n ride - lov'n it.

..god'dam wacky draw under no load?? WTF?

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 4:24 am

HI AJ, Yes that is way to much no-load. It may be just a function of the kelly but the motor just dont sound free ( sounds bogged down before you start ) If you got a sensorless controller to just run the motor up a little this will give you a better idea and make sure that the motor is running ok to start with.

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AussieJester
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by AussieJester » Jul 20, 2013 4:48 am

gwhy! wrote:HI AJ, Yes that is way to much no-load. It may be just a function of the kelly but the motor just dont sound free ( sounds bogged down before you start ) If you got a sensorless controller to just run the motor up a little this will give you a better idea and make sure that the motor is running ok to start with.
Yeah does sound that way...motors fine rode the bike around for 3 weeks or so with a 18fet Infineon ;-)


KiM

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by rodgah » Jul 20, 2013 5:09 am

forgive me if I am wrong but I think that is the e-braking of the kelly that makes it stop so quick, supposed to make it feel more like a ICE. So that is with no adjustment to the hall timing?
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AussieJester
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by AussieJester » Jul 20, 2013 5:19 am

rodgah wrote:forgive me if I am wrong but I think that is the e-braking of the kelly that makes it stop so quick, supposed to make it feel more like a ICE. So that is with no adjustment to the hall timing?

Cheers for the input Rodger, i set a pc up in the garage again BUT it has no freakin wifi card soooo i got a lift to my garage and grabbed a 5m USB cable to run from one of the houses pcs, just got in now so haven't had a chance, will do a check of Kelly software in morning and report back, i have fingers crossed something is checked that shouldnt beeeeee or visa versa...the e-brake sounds like a possibility but i know zero about these buggers ...Shall preserve thoough.

KiM

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 7:06 am

AussieJester wrote:
gwhy! wrote:HI AJ, Yes that is way to much no-load. It may be just a function of the kelly but the motor just dont sound free ( sounds bogged down before you start ) If you got a sensorless controller to just run the motor up a little this will give you a better idea and make sure that the motor is running ok to start with.
Yeah does sound that way...motors fine rode the bike around for 3 weeks or so with a 18fet Infineon ;-)


KiM
What was the no load current when you was running the 18fet ?

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by jonescg » Jul 20, 2013 7:19 am

Stopping suddenly could possibly be explained by the regen settings, but the no load current draw of 27 amps at constant throttle makes me think there is a timing issue. If the motor can be run smoothly from an Infineon (but the infineon blew up right? Was that user error KiM?) it should have even less trouble running from a Kelly.

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 8:45 am

jonescg wrote:Stopping suddenly could possibly be explained by the regen settings, but the no load current draw of 27 amps at constant throttle makes me think there is a timing issue. If the motor can be run smoothly from an Infineon (but the infineon blew up right? Was that user error KiM?) it should have even less trouble running from a Kelly.
I agree it may be a timing issue, but it dont sound like its not timed correctly :? it sounds loaded.. Have you got the correct wire combos with the kelly ?. it would be interesting to know what the noload current was with the 18fet as I would expect the motor on its own no load in wye will be around 4-5A so spinning the GB and wheel a total of around 5-6A , if the 18fet was more than this then something is/was defo wrong with timing ..

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by jonescg » Jul 20, 2013 9:00 am

Kim was saying the no load current with the Infineon was about 5 or 6 amps, and it spun as smooth as silk. He's even got a video somewhere of it wicking up I think. The Kelly is definitely wired correctly. We swapped any hall sensor lead and it simply would not turn (buzzed and vibrated, but never made a full rev). Swapping the phase wires around did the same thing, but we never attempted to get it to run backwards. It does sound like it's cogging really bad though.

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 9:32 am

jonescg wrote:Kim was saying the no load current with the Infineon was about 5 or 6 amps, and it spun as smooth as silk. He's even got a video somewhere of it wicking up I think. The Kelly is definitely wired correctly. We swapped any hall sensor lead and it simply would not turn (buzzed and vibrated, but never made a full rev). Swapping the phase wires around did the same thing, but we never attempted to get it to run backwards. It does sound like it's cogging really bad though.

could it be that the the 18fet was set for angle compatabily ( i.e 60 and 120 ) but the kelly is set of 60 . the no load when using the 18fet I would say was about right so hopefully the hall settings are all good. ok what about one of the phase windings being short this will show this sort of symptoms , maybe if AJ has a scope ( or access to one ) he could spin the motor up with a drill and look at the waveforms from each phase.

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Thud » Jul 20, 2013 9:42 am

Aj's halls are defiantly set at 120deg.
Looks like a timing or false positve......or a way off timing/clocking issue from here. :evil:
I don't know what the Kelly requires for commutation.....120 or 60..??
(Edit) looks like it will do both....


Sucks to be so close....& still not be "there".
Good luck guys,
get some......

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 9:53 am

yes the false positive would be my first port of call

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by John in CR » Jul 20, 2013 9:59 am

Just because it spins doesn't mean it's wired correctly. You need to swap 2 halls or 2 phases (any 2 and only 2). Then go find the correct combo of the 6 possible of the other set, phases or halls. You need the 2 wire swap, because otherwise the valid combo will be reverse.

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by gwhy! » Jul 20, 2013 10:00 am

John in CR wrote:Just because it spins doesn't mean it's wired correctly. You need to swap 2 halls or 2 phases (any 2 and only 2). Then go find the correct combo of the 6 possible of the other set, phases or halls. You need the 2 wire swap, because otherwise the valid combo will be reverse.
yep.. try this first ^^^^^^^^

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 20, 2013 10:15 am

gwhy! wrote:
John in CR wrote:Just because it spins doesn't mean it's wired correctly. You need to swap 2 halls or 2 phases (any 2 and only 2). Then go find the correct combo of the 6 possible of the other set, phases or halls. You need the 2 wire swap, because otherwise the valid combo will be reverse.
yep.. try this first ^^^^^^^^
Try swapping the green and yellow phase wires and monitor amps it should be running in reverse. If amps are low then swap the blue and yellow hall wire Edit: and also swap back your green and yellow phase wires. This was how I fixed my Cromotor maybe I'm wrong but its worth a try. Set amp to max 5 and slowly increase

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AussieJester
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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by AussieJester » Jul 20, 2013 7:18 pm

thanks for the input fellas...

1) cant be a regen issue this is the non-regen controller
2) The Infineon blew up due to user error ran smooth as silk when in use.
3) WOT no load current for the 18Fet was 6-7amp
4) As CHRiS said we tried varies phase ad hall combos, i also have the Lyen Tester
i used to determine halll combo.

I ran out of time last night we had the grand kids over for the night, will be able to
investigate the issue some more this afternoon..
Im curious to see if the hall angle is set correctly in the software it does do
60 and 120 hall angles i would have thought it wouldnt run at all if set to 60
though, shall check this i am not sure if it has a 'auto' setting like the infineons do
for halls.
I shall use the Lyen tester, again on both halld and phase to get what it says o be correct
combo again, we tried swapping two phase and two halls, it doesnt run at all
we were able to get it spinning forward ad backwards, current draw in both directions
was identical.

Back with more and hopefully a solution, later in the day...time for beakfast!
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^^ I got me a puppy last week too!! His names 'Jax' hes a very unique lil boy, he has heterochromia i.e one blue
eye one brown! Hes a Staffy x Blue heeler LOVES to chew stuff HAHA..

KiM

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Re: Custom_CHRoMo_CRuiSER

Post by toolman2 » Jul 21, 2013 8:00 am

yep, sorry i missed this till now, but yea you get all of that loaded sound and instant stop from a false positive.
so youl have to piss around with the halls/phases, btw ive found john in cr's instructions for hall combo finding was pure gold, dont spose you could post it up john?
youl get there kim!

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