dual cyclone build + problems

Hello this is my first post and am still trying to figure lots of things out mostly electrical /tecnical and lots of terms are just alien to me so please be forgiving for any ignorace on my part .
i am trying to finish off my new cyclone dual build so far have blown two controlers first one was from wireing both on y lead from throttle with all conections connected i found out that you only need to connect 3 out off 6 on one of the motors so while i was running just one the other was getting a back voltage (possibly) secound one was through poor waterproffing.
Q are there any better options for controllers more power
i would like to put an analist on this bike but not sure if i could on a double motor set up ?
i am going to put two keyed isolators on this so i can switch them both off for charging or just one for range ,are there any other options ?
Ive managed to get 40mph on the flat and off road seemed just as scary white knuckleing the tractor tracks ive got 16amp headways in the tank but the indercator lights on the throttle drop to amber at full throttle so im thinking battery sag but hope to remmedy when funds permit as i made the tank big enough for 32amps of headways (its going to be heavy)and maybe get another 5mph.
thanx for any help
regards gary

awsome looking bike !!!.. and welcome to the forum !

The throttle only needs 3 wires, +5v , ground and signal wire.. the other one's are for led indicator etc.......

when using 2 controllers and 1 throttle, you only need to power the throttle from one of the conrollers but need the signal wire and ground to the 2nd controller ( wait for someone more techie than me to confirm this.. but that's the short version )

sorry to hear about your fried controllers. but before any questions can be answered about controllers, need to know if you have the 500W motors with internal controllers or some other version with external controllers.

Ypedal is right about the throttle wiring. one motor controller will have the the throttle fully wired up and the second controller only needs 2 wires for the throttle. the ground and the signal wires.

you can hook up a Cycle Analyst to twin motors. you need to use the "Stand Alone" model of the Analyst to do this.

rick

hi i would like to fit the analist and have looked at them but as soon as i read words like shunts ,hale sensorors ect my mind went blank and i felt i little dizzy ?it would be good to monitor and find a sweet spot for long trips out .as for the controllers they are the 1200w 48v versions ,the controler or throttle wires i did eventualy figure out (maybe)but conected 3 wires no 2 no4 and no 5 is that one to many still? thanx for the thums up on the bike build i was realy enjoying hammering the traxs untill washing it i bit carelessly

hi dustyearlobe

you are the first guy who build dual, twin cyclone motors i saw in ES, i think the green time controller will work for the cyclone motors TWin. as for my cyclone i run them with huatong 48v 2000watts (max out put is near 2100watts). i think green time controller are better, i will test them one day when i have some extra funds to purchase a new green time controller. Myself also like to know if this green time controller will run cyclone well like huatong or not. as for one controller will draw a 42amps max, so a dual controllers will draw at least 84amps from the battery. the Lifepo4 bms must be 50amps to a 100amps output.

infact i was waiting for a long time, who will build a twin cyclone motors? thanks for showing up your build , and many guys welcome you here in ES. for a single cyclone motor+ hua tong 18fets, 2000watts for me was quite sufficent enough troque power and speed. you can always run one motor and the other one put in stand-by, it is free gear right?

cyclone controller wires are different colour code. it can be wired out all by yourself , hall wires and the phase wires. this will reduce the confuse 5v+ and the GND for hall sensor. i think this month end, i will purchase a green time controller is for a test with cyclone motors to see if it WORKS or fail. i think it is very likely will work, so far this controller green time my friend is using with the x5304 is running great. Testing the green time controller with cyclone will be nice for everyone to know, at least there is always have choice for replacement.

ken

Hi Ken thanx for the heads up on the controller can you remember how much better the cyclone motor performed with the huatong rather than the one that comes with the kit?.
As for free wheel i have a nuvinci 360 hub on the back which is performing great ,my only grip is that the axle dosnt seem to be replacable and ive had it some time now so the threads are getting close to had it ,so my fear is it will be useless if the threads go
i would of liked to show more pictures but they keep coming out bigger than the 514kb permited although i should probable wait till its completle finished
Regards Gary

Very Well Done Dude Very nice bike, we can race when i done with my ebike dual cyclone with huatong controllers 2 weeks away , only one thing ? it looks like have very big chianring ? it look like 44teeth dual rings ? what max grade % it can climb and it looks like get alot of chain slap, what dose it wight , just a hirt change the oil in the moster t forks to 25 wight or 30 wight oil it will help alot, you sould have red springs install inside the forks ? but if not get some new springs, all the best :lol:

very nice mate, could you post a little more info on the frame build please? Is it sheet mild steel? Any internal bracing/tubing etc?

Thanks man

hi dustyearobe,

for my view, i think huatong is sure a controller will work with cyclone motors. it is reliable also. it runs cool with the 18fets, best of all it has a good features. CUT off power switch. to compare the power from Cyclone 48v version or huatong 48v, they have no much difference. the difference is only by 100 watts more. cyclone controller have said to draw 2200watts or 50amps+ , and a huatong is 2100watts, 42amps. what i think the relialblity is more important, i end up with a huatong, im looking at the relaiblity , can last me a very long time. my total run for huatong controller is going very strong soon, 7000km. i believe on the road test and run them hard i will see result.

kent

Welcome to the forum Gary
Sweet looking bike mate, thats a nice looking frame!
Did you fabricate it from scratch yourself?
That is going to be a torque monster when you get the electrical gremlins sorted! :wink:


Paul

Hi guy thanks for the great welcome.
aCemadmods i havent looked inside the forks yet but yes they do run light with the weight of the bike so it might be worth having a look alyhough i dont understand about the oil? i am sorry for no pictures of the build i realy didnt take any which i regreat now but hear go,s ill try explain .
i used 6082t6 aluminium which is specet to have slightly more strength than 6061 and being more available ,well to be honest i could not find any sheet 6061 or 7005 with out special order which was to pricy i did think about cromoly but couldnt find enough info on gauges stregnths ect so try 6082 i did .
the first thing i did was build a proto type to work out hights spacing and stuff this was a single motor which i do have pictures of if any body would like to seefirst swing arm made from 3mm plate and channal but wasnt strong enough so i had to double plate later which was fine for very rough trackssecound problem came when i tryed to put swing arm pivot and bottom bearing all in one ,although it worked it wasnt very stiff and put out alot off flex in the rear so i moved the pivot point to the rear of the frame and left the bb wear it was ,it was a shame thou as there would have been no need for any chain tensioner as no matter how much the swing arm moved the chain rings would stay equal .on the new build i used 6mm plate for the swing arm with plenty of weild in the corners inside and out for stregnth i didnt get it heat treated as i wanted it to be strong enough as it was so it could only get stronger with age hardening the swing arm position is in a diffrent place also i will get some photos later ,the frame /battery box is 3mm plate and the motor plate is 10mm i think the head tube is 5mm thick tube .
the first build i used tube to out line frame as at the time couldnt find big plate for sale found some later so second build no tube ,over all the hardest part was gettig the bb low with keeping the swing arm as high as possible giving me a full 220mm of travel with out the rear coil losing compresion due to angle feed .as for weilding ejay i pretty much seameded it inside and out .
Centering the motors in the frame so the pedals were also centered was very easy ,as most cyclone owners will be aware the left side pedal has to poke out a bit to give clearance for the motor but if you take apart the bb case suppled with the kits and remove the bearings swaping them from one side to the other well mainly just the thredded cases then just put it in the wrong way round so the longest part is now on the chainring side then space the chain rings a cordingly hey presto motor and pedals are now in the center of the frame not too the left ummm not sure if im just blabbering now if you would like to know any thing in perticular just let me know and ill try to explain what iv done

with my twin motor build I have discovered that even if you are not powering the second motor the no load remains the same as if you were powering the 2 motors ( I don't really know why I was surprised by this as it do make sense ) so to get the better range you will need to machanicley isolate the 2 motors aswell. Just though I would give you the heads up, also I can confirm about the 1 throttle/ 2 controllers, you only need 1x5+ and 1x 0v from one of the controllers then split the sig wire into both controllers , the controllers do have to have a common 0v tho.

Hi gwhy .
My first thoughts were to just cut the throttle signal power in the controller via a small switch not a good idear thou so im going to fit two isolators cuttig main positives to controllers via seperat leads hope fully next week (payday soon )isolators 35 pounds each och i,ll post the results and pics when its done im hopeing having the signals from the throttle still live (the 3 on the secound controller)wont do any damage as when isolated it will still have negative conected

dustyearlobe said:

Hi gwhy .
My first thoughts were to just cut the throttle signal power in the controller via a small switch not a good idear thou so im going to fit two isolators cuttig main positives to controllers via seperat leads hope fully next week (payday soon )isolators 35 pounds each och i,ll post the results and pics when its done im hopeing having the signals from the throttle still live (the 3 on the secound controller)wont do any damage as when isolated it will still have negative conected

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as long as one live motor is driving a none live motor the no load current will be the same as if both motors were live. This is what I found on my setup and I cant really see it being any different with brushed motors ( are your motors brushed ? ) . You can test this just by electrically disconnecting one motor and measuring the no-load current draw of just one driven motor.

edit: just read all the posts, so these motors are sensored 3 phase

Hi gwhy, both motors are brushless and i am running separate controllers so im pretty sure when i run the lead motor and disconect the positve from the arft controller i should read 0v to the motor and controller but cant test this untill i get the new controller as im thinking you mean if power is still suppled to second controller it will still discharge the battery regardles of use ?would be intrested to see you dual set up if yove got any pics or is there a thread regards Gary.
JUST had a thought are your motors the ones without planetry gear box so no freewheel cogs on ?

dustyearlobe said:

Hi gwhy, both motors are brushless and i am running separate controllers so im pretty sure when i run the lead motor and disconect the positve from the arft controller i should read 0v to the motor and controller but cant test this untill i get the new controller as im thinking you mean if power is still suppled to second controller it will still discharge the battery regardles of use ?would be intrested to see you dual set up if yove got any pics or is there a thread regards Gary.
JUST had a thought are your motors the ones without planetry gear box so no freewheel cogs on ?

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yes no freewheels on mine, so both motors will be spinning even if only one is driven, if you have freewheels on your motors then you should be fine

very cool...

[youtube]hkbqaS7hSDE[/youtube]

I like your frame, looks very nice I am toying with the idea of doing something along those lines my self.

dustyearlobe said:

would be intrested to see you dual set up if yove got any pics or is there a thread regards Gary.

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here is a on going thread of one of my projects http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32042&start=75 there are some pics and video, I will fit a oneway sprag bearing into one of the sprockets so I can isolate one of the motors as this will help save a bit of battery, but thinking of automatically switching the motor controller on and off basically when the motors are pulling 2kw or less one of the controllers will shut down to isolate one of the motors

I love that frame go nice with my 1 or 2 80/100 setup I got on thud two speed reduction lol got set up but no frame

you can use a normal cycle speedo and mount the mag down by the axle

I see someone found a vid ,i hadnt figured that one out yet ,or tryed should i say as most of the pics are croped to reduce there size .still waiting for payday so i can order me new bits ,i love the idea of an etrials gwhy thous motor seem to put out some power (newbie question)what are they presuming there rc ? idontwantopeddle have you had any trouble with your cyclone set up ,thanx Sk8norcal

Only prob I have had is the gears in the gearbox wear out. Only moving on to rc motor as I had go on Tom (losttrack) bike and he went up hill quicker than my single cyclone could go down it lol

dustyearlobe said:

i love the idea of an etrials gwhy thous motor seem to put out some power (newbie question)what are they presuming there rc ?

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Yes they are rc motors ( baby ones ) they do pack a punch, each motor can output around 5kw for very very short bursts but 2.5kw per motor could be more or less constant dependent on cooling, the power in the little vid on my my build thread is @ 5kw one motor pulling 3.5kw and the other 1.5kw.

Do you use a normal controler with these or the rc controllers ?ive got an rc plane and if i remmember the start speed is high from the start

dustyearlobe said:

Do you use a normal controler with these or the rc controllers ?ive got an rc plane and if i remmember the start speed is high from the start

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I use normal e-bike brushless sensored controllers, the motors have to have hall sensors fitted so you get very good start torque from zero rpm, the controllers are modified to allow more power but other than that they are standard