im doing a BB drive ebike...

So got some different threads together with different style BB drives to decide what I want...
-Rc Drive
-thesuperkids.com BMC 2000W motor
-cyclone 1200-1500 double freewheel kit...
-hub motor

guess it comes down to weight and voltage eh? I really do not want lipo..I have 48v 12ah headways sitting here...but wouldnt mind running a 20s a123 pack.

Those 80-100 turnigy motors are long gone..so where to source another version? I think the rc drive will be the lightest and most reliable..but I know those suck amps and not sure if my 12ah headways can make it. If they do the range wont be much more than 10-12 miles of decent riding, and I am aimed towards a 22 mile there,charge, and 22 miles back home to work setup.

Maybe this wont be the most reliable either..but once its dialed in, with weekly chain, sprocket checks I dont see the issue.

The recent bafang hub motor build is pretty awesome, and I think would be way more efficient than an rc drive. However even with the rim part removed its still a large circle sitting in front of your pedals(and hard to make it look "cool")

One thing that might put a kink in the works is that bicycle chain can only really handle so much power/torque.
I think that if you go much over 1000w, you are going to start seeing problems.

That being said, a ~750w mid drive is pretty good. If you're climbing hills, it will definitely be efficient. On the flats, the sprocket and chain friction do end up hurting a system like this.

The cyclone kits do not seem very reliable. The turnigy motors ( and other RC setups ) are loud as crap due to the super high RPMs they spin at. If you wanna go with a hub motor, a geared motor would be best.

But you know what would rock? one of the smaller BMC motors with some gear reductions at the end. You could build yourself a budget ecospeed kit with something like that.

http://ecospeed.com/prodemtnd1.html

http://www.thesuperkids.com/brmo.html

Those 80-100 turnigy motors are long gone..so where to source another version?


leadershobby.com

Bubba

neptronix said:

One thing that might put a kink in the works is that bicycle chain can only really handle so much power/torque.
I think that if you go much over 1000w, you are going to start seeing problems.

Click to expand...

You may want to try a bmx chain. Slightly thicker, and fits the same cogs (spacing is the same). I got a KMC (IIRC) chain which took peaks of 7-9,000 watts without snapping. Very strong

dontsendbubbamail said:

Those 80-100 turnigy motors are long gone..so where to source another version?


leadershobby.com

Bubba

Click to expand...

which motor on there would be equivelent?

Will rc lipo be required with an rc setup?

lostrack said:

neptronix said:

One thing that might put a kink in the works is that bicycle chain can only really handle so much power/torque.
I think that if you go much over 1000w, you are going to start seeing problems.

Click to expand...

You may want to try a bmx chain. Slightly thicker, and fits the same cogs (spacing is the same). I got a KMC (IIRC) chain which took peaks of 7-9,000 watts without snapping. Very strong

Click to expand...

Suure.. but a bmx chain is wider.. so how do you shift with it? I believe it is too wide for even a 6-7 speed derailleur / gears.
Isn't the idea of a mid drive to allow shifting capability, after all?

Haste said:

dontsendbubbamail said:

Those 80-100 turnigy motors are long gone..so where to source another version?


leadershobby.com

Bubba

Click to expand...

which motor on there would be equivelent?

Will rc lipo be required with an rc setup?

Click to expand...

Just do a search for 80100 kv130, they get stock every month orvso

As to lipo, no, not nessesary, though 12ah of headway might strggle a bit. How manny whats do you want to run, and how manny whathours is the headway pack?. If your saftey concious then you could get a second headway pack, or some high discharge life...

Yep leadershobby have the 130kv 80100's, i bought 2 from them on ebay some months ago. They are essentially a re-badged Turnigy motor.

Bicycle chain can handle a decent amount of power and torque, i've ran 5kw through it just fine and that was with a high torque crank drive setup.
Recumpence (Matt), has run far more kw than that with bicycle chain too. Buying good quality chain helps.
BMX chain could be used in the reduction stage from the reduction unit freewheel to the cranks but not for drive to a multi speed back wheel


Cyclone setups can be reliable, its all in the installation. Hard wiring (soldering) every connection (apart from battery obviously!) and making sure the motor was absolutely solidly mounted ensured my 2kw setup never ever gave me one problem over the hundreds of kms i put on it before selling the complete bike.

Yes rc setups are louder than a typical hub, but if all-out power / torque setup in a compact mid-drive / crank driven bike is your goal, you can't go past them!

What are your power goals? What are you going to use it for ? Do you need top speed or high torque or a balance of both? How mechanically inclined are you?


Paul

I was going to go hub for reliability, but the hub wont give me the torque or the topend needed. Plus these are super effecient if set up correctly.

I live in a pretty hilly environment, and I am aiming for 35 mph topend on the flat.. I can get parts welded, and Im sure I can find someone to machine items.


-80-100 motor
-hs160 controller
-sick bike parts freewheeling crank
-various mounting, jackshaft parts
-48v 15h ping?

only thing Im not sure about is battery.. these setups suck amps? However I saw someone only used 7ahs to do a 33 mile commute at 30-32mph..

Timma2500 said:

Yep leadershobby have the 130kv 80100's, i bought 2 from them on ebay some months ago. They are essentially a re-badged Turnigy motor.

Bicycle chain can handle a decent amount of power and torque, i've ran 5kw through it just fine and that was with a high torque crank drive setup.
Recumpence (Matt), has run far more kw than that with bicycle chain too. Buying good quality chain helps.
BMX chain could be used in the reduction stage from the reduction unit freewheel to the cranks but not for drive to a multi speed back wheel


Cyclone setups can be reliable, its all in the installation. Hard wiring (soldering) every connection (apart from battery obviously!) and making sure the motor was absolutely solidly mounted ensured my 2kw setup never ever gave me one problem over the hundreds of kms i put on it before selling the complete bike.

Yes rc setups are louder than a typical hub, but if all-out power / torque setup in a compact mid-drive / crank driven bike is your goal, you can't go past them!

What are your power goals? What are you going to use it for ? Do you need top speed or high torque or a balance of both? How mechanically inclined are you?


Paul

Click to expand...

Hey timma
Do you use a particular type of chain to take that power, or is it all just really wel alligned n oiled etc? Cause you hear plenty from guys killing chains at less power than you. Whats ure secret?

Ps seriosly mate, every time i see your setups, i start salivating. Soooo clean.

timma,
so for a noob sounds like cyclone is the way to go if you tear into it and make a solid mount? Im only aiming for 35mph top end with great tq... however I will ride it 22-25 miles there and back...

Haste i just saw this in the for sale section, it looks like a new pretty solid mount for the cyclone. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36765

Gab

Haste said:

I was going to go hub for reliability, but the hub wont give me the torque or the topend needed. Plus these are super effecient if set up correctly. I live in a pretty hilly environment, and I am aiming for 35 mph topend on the flat.. I can get parts welded, and Im sure I can find someone to machine items.-80-100 motor-hs160 controller-sick bike parts freewheeling crank-various mounting, jackshaft parts-48v 15h ping?only thing Im not sure about is battery.. these setups suck amps? However I saw someone only used 7ahs to do a 33 mile commute at 30-32mph..

Click to expand...

Haste said:

timma,so for a noob sounds like cyclone is the way to go if you tear into it and make a solid mount? Im only aiming for 35mph top end with great tq... however I will ride it 22-25 miles there and back...

Click to expand...

The 80100 setup would certainly give you 35mph and good hill climbing. Yeah like all high powered setups they will suck down the amps if you give it WOT everywhere but if you can show some restraint (hard to do with alot of power on tap!) it would be reasonably efficient. How many amps depends on how much power you restrict it to - 5kw @ 48v will draw roughly 105a - 110a, 7kw will see rough peaks of 145a - 150a... you'll need a muscular battery to keep up with those current draws!

My cyclone setup gave me 60kph / 38mph on flat ground and climbed dirt trails that i could barely walk up while returning decent economy and peaks of 40a @ 50v (12s lipo). The main drawback was the heat generated at high speed running - sustained 50kph+ riding after say 5kms would see the motor starting to get a bit toasty which required backing off a bit and pedal assisting it at a slower speed to give it time to cool its heels for a while.

A well geared 80100 setup may not heatup as much at the same sustained speed....
However the cyclone has one big advantage over the HV160esc setups - the ability to operate at low rpm under load without blowing the controller :wink:
The steepest hill i used to love going up was a slow speed balance of wheelie vs wheel spin while using my legs to help paddle up (it was almost unwalkable). This low speed high load would kill a HV110 / 140 / 160 almost instantly. Yes the cyclone motor heated up quickly and the controller got warm but thats the worst that happened.

sn0wchyld said:

Hey timma. Do you use a particular type of chain to take that power, or is it all just really wel alligned n oiled etc? Cause you hear plenty from guys killing chains at less power than you. Whats ure secret? Ps seriosly mate, every time i see your setups, i start salivating. Soooo clean.

Click to expand...

Cheers Sn0wy With the chain, i did run a good quality unit on the bike, kept it lubed and had it perfectly aligned and its probably that alignment that kept it in one piece.
I didn't use that setup for long as i kept on destroying those shitty BaneBots planetary gearboxes but it was certainly used and abused while it was running.
Long term it would no doubt see some premature stretching of the chain, how premature would depend on how you ride the bike - popping wheelies all the time and slamming up through the gears under full power as apposed to easing on the power from a stand still and shifting the gears with mechanical sympathy :wink:

Oh crap, sorry long post :lol:


Paul

I'm a little stunned at how much power you've ran through bike chain.. hard to believe it, going off chain ratings, etc.

What bike chain are you using anyway?

Seen peaks of over 10000watts on my Turnigy 80-100 setup using HV160 and 12s LiPO
I've ridden with Timma many times, his cyclone setup was fantastic...I also run
BMX chain although mine is the half link variety (for the coolness factor LoL)
Never had an issue with chain stretch, i use even smaller #25 on the reduction (two speed
custom dog box made by ES member ThuD) Be running even more power on the new
bike also using BMX chain... Best of luck with the build..

KiM

neptronix said:

Suure.. but a bmx chain is wider.. so how do you shift with it? I believe it is too wide for even a 6-7 speed derailleur / gears.

Click to expand...

I did this on the v3. You have to put spacers in the derailleur mechanism on each side of the idlers and you have to remove every other sprocket on the cluster. I used the largest sprocket a mid size one and the smallest one. Between each sprocket I put two spacers on the cluster. It's not perfect but it works.

neptronix said:

I'm a little stunned at how much power you've ran through bike chain.. hard to believe it, going off chain ratings, etc.What bike chain are you using anyway?

Click to expand...

Looking through my CRC history, looks like i went for a Wipperman 8spd chain.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5152
Don't get fooled into buying a chain that has those little cutouts to reduce weight, under our power outputs they will be more likely to stretch or snap.
Instead go for the most robust chain possible

As Kim says, his cruiser was pumping out 10kw with no chain issues - i've personally ridden his bike and its not short on power, torque or speed thanks to Thud's awsome 2spd gearbox and 160+ amps of Turnigy torque :wink:

Paul

The shimano XT HG93 chain with extra hardend bolts is one of the best chains available, much better than Sram, Wippermann, KMC and anything else.
The strongest chains that are available for 8 and 9 speed gears are the Rohloff chains (the company that builds the 14speed hubs) . Those Chains even need a special tool from rohloff to lock them.