Which motor/kit ?

Hi , I`m Chris , and atm trying to build an E-bike
but i have no idea where to find nice priced e-motor kits.
Can i power my system with PB-batteries? i would.. like .. put 4 of em in parallel or 2 parallel in series to another 2 parallel to get wheter 12-14 or 24-28 Volts

so my question is.. where do I find nice Motor/ESC kits doing about 500-2000Watts ? I would have an Arduino MEGA to control the ESC

greetz , Chris

What are you trying to achieve? you have hub motors, mid-drive motors

There is tons of information here on this forum. GNG kits, LR kit, Bafang kit, Cyclone kit...


You can use PB batteries, you may need 4 of them in series to get 48v to use with 500-2000w motor. and you cant use your arduino mega for this kind of setup (I mean you probably can, but you should get a proper controller).

I am not an expert, I still learning myself.

Hello Chris

If you are able to write and program for an Arduino to be an active interface for a controller (that is absolutely possible and yet made), maybe you would like to be concentrated in that and not to the standard E-bike build!!!!

Anyway I think PB batteries are out of question for a 500-2000w system, at least if your is a normal 2 wheel bike.

Give some more infos about the bike, the kind of duty and hills you would like to do with it and, perhaps, your budget, and you'll get for sure better advices....

Cheers

my budget ? 200€ at the max i think
yes I know how to write programms and I am fairly advanced in IT stuff.

there are a lot of outrunners out there. i want to take one with about 1000-2000watts to do a solid 30+mph on flat street.
there are some steep hills to master , but most of the time i drive on very flat roads.

the question still is .. who sells nice e-motors for low price
then there´s this batterypack problem ..
a motor that needs high voltage , does not need that much juice tho , so I need less battery packs in parallel
BUT the ESC´s for 8s-12s and 80A+ are TREMENDOUSLY expensive!

so i thought , i could buy like .. 2x 1200W Motor or even 3x 700Watts ( which would be the least expensive to buy ( components are small n easy , each motor has its own battery and esc , getting 1 signal from mother arduino , hehe ))
i would place those 3 Motors in a Delta Formation inside my bike frame triangle , so the chain is going around all the sprockets.

I dont know if this is possible, but it would look hilariously nice if there are 3 noisy motors producing almost 3HP on my bike , haha xD
correct my if that idea was TOO exotic. there´s a lot of stuff going on my mind , to save money with cheap components

greetz

Chris....let me say that, yes, your ideas are a bit exotic....but let me add that, yes, that's the right place to post them and to see if they can became something real....
Since It seems You have good skills in electronics that are good for bike control but have not experiences with E-bike....maybe the best thing is to start get the experience necessary (that could be with normal systems or exotic at your choice) to implement your skills and ideas with the real application knowledge......

Your budget - Ideas - Concepts are really close to the Silvocross projects (low budget, SLA batteries, china outrunner (80-100), Hobbiking ESC, Arduino control, and even most mechanical components self made or adapted from other applications....
Take a look on them, because they was among the best low budget projects of this kind seen around ES.....they could be inspirational for you.
Notice that the first upgrade of the guy has been from SLA to Lipos.....I remember he wasn't able to do 10 Kms with SLA and the second half of the Capacity works on deep sags and compromise the battery life, even with DeepCycle ones....

Hope this helps a bit

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=35694
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42262

thank you very much. this is really close to my budget .
the difference is : i will use an old bike , unchanged , its 25 years old and frame is made out of solid steel.
as a perfect efficiency i will use the original rear gear thingy system of the bike. so when im changing gears i gotta throttle down , wait till chain is fully on next gear , and throttle up again.
my bike does not need any pedals , so i will replace the pedaling system by the motor.
i hope u get my idea. maybe pedals will come afterwards again when i found out how to combine those two in a cheap way

which homepage would u suggest for buying motors/esc?

greetz

Ok, I got your idea....if you look at the first build I've linked, you'll find that an old steel frame was used too by Silvocross even if with some mod...

Since you say you will not have pedals, than avoiding SLA is a MUST! and, still I couldn't get where you plan to put enough SLA for the power you look for....

About where to buy, HobbyKing or other big RC online shop are a Must for all low budget (and not only for some component) builds...

You could also take a look at the AlienPower webpage that's UK based and sells quality rewound outrunners, ESCs and many other things you could need as throttle interfaces and more, Alien Motors upgrade (bearings and windings) could worth the price (again look at the Silvocross first build....he fired the original winds on the stock 80-100 outrunner almost immediately....And I can Add that I have otherwise fried a Dlux 160A esc with another 80-100 but with new windings....) Probably you could find a cheaper but anyway working ESC than Aliens ones.
Old High quality Casatle Creation HV ESCs (phoenix ICE 1 and 2) could be actually purchased at very convenient prices from shops that still have them from old stocks....especially the <80amps ones...

Hope this helps again...

Yes you helped me again , of course , I was checking out Hobbyking for now and was seeing that they have very nice and worthy 4s 5Ah Lipo batts , so I'm not using SLA´s anyways

I am surely using my Arduino connected to the ESC as an interface. Also i use the arduino with an LCD display to calculate speed and ABOUT how much juice i used , and how much is remaining
( with the diagramm of the motors , and my percentage on throttle , i can probably tell about how much current i draw. i think . xD)

but no matter what motor there is ( lots of cool 45-55mm outrunners at around 2000watts , around 40-60€ ) , i cant get any nice combination with an ESC / lipos.

if the motor setup is very amp-heavy , money problems with batts.
if the motor setup is very volts-heavy , money problems with ESC.

do i have to worry about sensorless or sensored motors ?
i only want it to work with my arduino.
like i understood , the sensored has hallsensors on every stator , those are sending impulses to the ESC to tell which position the rotor is and to controll it.
but i dont understand the theory of the unsensored motor. is the yellow cable giving the sine wave to the esc ? ) black is -V and red +V , so i always thought yellow would be ground

edit : i think i understood now. the motor has the sensored/unsensored feedback for itself. it doesnt feed the esc. the esc only provides the power. (?)

greetz , chris.

I'm still pretty much a newbie here myself but I came into this with a pretty decent shop, some fabrication equipment and skills, and RC airplane motor experience. With all due respect your budget is not very realistic... I'm probably using the cheapest motor/ESC combo of any post I've seen in the 2500 watt range. A 55 dollar motor and about a 100 dollar ESC good for 100 amps and 12s. Then you have batteries, reduction drive, and other bits and pieces, plus a fair amount of creative fabrication required. For normal ebike application, sensored motor or ESC is not necessary. My setup will do 30-31 mph on level ground and it will hold 27 -28 up a mild incline, but its pushing the limits of what this motor/ESC is capable of without smoking something.

Edit: I suppose I should add a qualifier that I'm referring to a non hub, non friction drive setup.

Hello yawstick!

I have looked up very many different motor/esc/battery combo.
AND I came to a decision.
I will fire my bike with an Turnigy Trackstar 5300Watts Inrunner ( 41 Volts , 130Amps , 750kv ) with an HV160 Controller and it´s programmingtool , source will be 6 SLA batteries 12Volts , 7.2Ah.
Final price for the electric parts is about 260€

5300W Inrunner 750kv @ ~ 40V -> 30.000rpm absolute max, maybe 20-25k when Its pushing me to the max .
160A (180A max ) ESC , 44V
6x SLA 3s2p giving 36~40V and 14.5Ah with a max current output of almost 300A for 5 secs.

I will make in school a CNC built 1:36 transmitted 2stage drivetrain , going from a 3cm gearwheel sitting on the motorshaft -> to a 18cm gearwheel DIRECTLY ( touching each other ).
On the same shaft where the 18cm wheel sits ( the shaft is on 2 already bought SKF high quality bearings sitting in 2 vertical steelplates in the middle of the bike ) ,
there is another 3cm sprocket driving a 18-20cm chainwheel per bike chain.
The sprockets , shafts and gearwheels will get a thread and be screwed together in to the relative locking way of the shaft.

Motorsetting will be like very soft start and I'm pedalling the first few mph , otherways the ESC is going to burn down really fast.

What do you say to this project, especially to the inrunner


TOTAL COSTS -> ~320€

greetz

I have no experience with the inrunners but the problem with all motors on here is their ability or inability to shed heat. If I was determined to use such a small motor I would try one of the water cooled boat version and incorporate a cooling system. These motors can't deliver 5000 watts continuous for very long and they would never see the kind of load you're going to be putting on it for very long. The KV is pretty high and those gears are going to be doing some serious singing. Neither will those batteries deliver much current for very long. But it sounds like you are determined to go this route and will be interesting to see how it goes for you.

There was recent post about a two motor rim drive with two relatively small motors. It was a turn key system and seemed a pretty effective use of small motors.

Good Luck

Paul

Hi again.
I thought about the heat shed ability and well ... why do other builds work then ? If a motor has 5000Watts , it's not determined that I'm going to use these 5000W permanently.
I think a big/powerful/high Wattage Motor is , percentally seen , stressed less than a 1kW smaller Motor.
If I'm doing this project , my Motor and my boxes where the controller and batteries are , get all a 12V cooling fan . Those are switched from the handlebars to provide cooling power even when I am standing/pedalling.


Yesterday I was camping with my girlfriend and her brother and he has built a Quadcopter with 4x 500W inrunners with carbon props.
After 10 min of flying around filming the surrounding with the onboard sony cam , 1 Motor overheated and the ESC switched itself and the Motor off -> quadro was turning and falling down breaking 1 metalarm.
It had like 25°C and the motors where completely okay for the whole system , but since it was so hot and he flew around pretty fast , ESC said "NO , we're gonna stop right here'
I'm afraid that I will be burning through my whole system caused by an overheated motor or something

any other ideas ? there is only a little offering of watercooled highpower motors

Greetz

I have built quite a few quads myself mostly 350 watt or less motors and all outrunners. None of my esc's had any sort of motor over temp detection and I would be inclined to think he may have had undervoltage protection condition if he had been flying for ten minutes.

I already had the motor I ended up using for a big Yak and had the benefit of seeing and riding an Outrider trike before undertaking a poor mans version of it. And its still not cheap and you can expect some failures unless you go with something a lot more turn key.

My advice would be to spend a lot more time on this site and try something a lot closer to what someone else has done. You'll save money in the long run.

A fan blowing on your motor does not come close to it being on an airplane exposed to a near constant blast of cooling air.

Iused to attach a small ducted fan impeller (without the duct) to the end of my outrunner motors when used in enclosed RC helicopters. Seems to work.

I have done something similar to that as well. The heavy aluminum mount pulls heat out of the motor as well.
I have a few unused analog inputs on the arduino that I would like to add thermistor to see if its helping or not.
It does move a lot of air.

HAHAHA , WELL DONE man , this loooks just hilarious !!!!
I bet it moves a lot of air , I`ll do that ,too , haha.

Can you please Show me the thread with the guy building a twinmotor beltdriven System ? Would be great !!!!
Is there anything similar to a Multi esc ? An esc that drives 2 Motors ? would be so nice ,hehe..

Im thinking about that sooo much. I dont know if I should take 1 or 2 Motors. They should produce about 5000-6000w
Im thinking about the Transmission. Easy would be a Moped Motor clutch+gearbox , you could shift them gears thru to get even better Performance.

And when I think about those, I ask myself , if a 28 yr old bike is Fitting for those plans.... goooosh ..

you have a nice day
greetz

Hey vendetta227. Where are you located. Most countries like the US, Canada, Oz (continent)and most of Europe require pedals on a bike to call it a bicycle. Otherwise it is a motorcycle and subject to very different laws.
otherDoc

Vendetta277 said:

Can you please Show me the thread with the guy building a twinmotor beltdriven System ? Would be great !!!!

Click to expand...

I believe there are several.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62040