new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 18, 2017 6:09 pm

As far as "unless you can program the controller"... it is the bluetooth programmable model, or are you referring to a different kind of programming that just being able to change the settings via bluetooth.

I suppose the caps could either be replaced in the near future, or if/when they blow, assuming they don't take anything else out with them, changed then.

jk1
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 336
Joined: Feb 27, 2009 6:04 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by jk1 » Oct 18, 2017 10:03 pm

Postby flat tire » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:37 pm

I wouldn't get the Kelly. The included throttle is also total garbage. I use a Domino, other acceptable quality throttles can be found from ev motos on ebay like the zero, alta, brammo, et al.
Which throttle does it come with ? Cyclone Taiwan normally supplies the ORO throttle which I think is probably one of the oldest and most reliably cyclone throttles? never heard of anyone having issues with them or is it another type ?

Also the issue with the throttle may have more to do with the controller you use and not the throttle ! and the domino maybe a bandaid fix to ur cheap chinese controller. The Kelly controller has throttle mapping, so you can tune the response to the throttle output, unlike the cheap chinese controllers. The domino is a crappy resistive throttle unlike the more stable and reliable hall sensor type Oro's. The original cheapest and oldest throttles relied on resistance before hall sensor replaced them due to reliability improvement.

I think AFT have been using the Kelly controllers with the C3000w for some time now ?see here http://www.aft-ebike.com/c3000w.html so not sure what problem you are having with them ?

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 759
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 19, 2017 12:56 pm

No, you are completely incorrect. The build quality, accuracy and precision of the Domino (and some other legit EV) throttles is way above and beyond the cheap throttles. It's not that the cheap throttles don't work, it's just that they're crap quality and not that precise. Do you want to have junk for one of the most important interfaces between you and your bike? Using that $2 junk for a critical control is completely unacceptable in my book. Also I use the CA v3 to remap my throttles.

I still have the motor open and will take some pictures.
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 20, 2017 2:29 am

Well, I finally got my phil wood bottom bracket tool and got the current BB off the bike (surprisingly it did not take too much force... totally could have 3d printed the tool and had still managed to get it off... luckily while still overpriced, the tool wasn't crazy overpriced). Now I just want to clean out the bikes BB, wish I had a better brush on hand for that, but hopefully some rags and degreaser will do the trick.

My spot welder should also be arriving tomorrow... and got the LIPO to run it off of yesterday... sadly I delayed ordering a LIPO charger till yesterday, so got a couple of days to wait for that.

I've also decided to go with a BMS for this pack. Sadly took a bit to get an order setup with Bestechpower (was the only company I could find that was recommended for a quality BMS... otherwise it seemed like all I could do was gamble on essentially a brand-less cheap chinese BMS, and hope that it would work well. Was hoping to get an advanced adjustable BMS from bestechpower, but they are not currently in stock... though are supposed to be next month, so maybe I'll try to get some for my next build.

I'm also seeing if I can find a small voltage meter to mount on the battery pack, as a simple, additional way to check the overall voltage (would love to add cell loggers, to track each parallel groups voltage, if I could find a 10s or even better 20s one... b ut I don't plan to add 4 to a single small 20s pack). I've found some really cheap voltage meters (literally < $1) on aliexpress that will read 0-100v... BUT they require a power source under 30v to run... and what I'm looking for is something small/simple (ideally cheap) that will work off of the batteries voltage. Anyone familiar with anything that'll do the job?

Next up will be ordering a charger for this pack.... I think i'm just going to bite the bullet and order a Cycle Satiotor. I can't find anything else comparable to it... and if I cheap out now and get a shittier charger... I'm pretty sure I'll be getting the Satiotor soon enough... so I think I might as well just get it now (just hope a better option doesn't come out immediately after). Also gonna order a Cycle Analyst V3 while I am at it... seems to be the best option for a display/control for this setup.

All in all, almost have everything I need, and got the bike pretty close to ready for everything. Hopefully in a week or two I'll have a kick ass ebike to ride, looking forward to it.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4755
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 20, 2017 12:21 pm

My cyclone came with a throttle with a voltage display and key. I just snipped off the connector am currently using on a different then stock controller. The reason is because the cont does not have a lvc, which isnt the best ideal scenerio.

I've also been thinking of those voltage RC alarm devices, which can produce a sound when it reaches a preset voltage. They arent the loudest and my hearing is not the best.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 20, 2017 1:44 pm

I've been getting ready to finally bite the bullet and grab a Cycle Analyst v3 and a Cycle Satiator (Though I might also try to build my own variable voltage charger... but still think I'll be getting the satiator as well... pricey, but seems like the best option by far, still don't understand why there aren't a dozen chinese copies of it, or at least of a variable voltage charger)

While on ebikes.ca, I saw their new "Universal T-Lever Throttle"... which seems extremely basic... but I really like the minimal design. And considering I'll be getting a Cycle Analyst v3 with it, and I can only assume the best way to wire a throttle would be through the CA, seems like it could be a pretty nice throttle. It's also pretty damn low key, would barely notice it was even there, and obviously takes up very little handlebar space... I'm really digging it, and for $15, pretty cheap.

Anyone using it now?

Also just ran into the Phaserunner controller... aside from it not being serviceable (hopefully build quality is high enough)... but the Voltage and Current is not bad at all... and holy shit is that thing small, and super clean. Again if you're running a CA, shows you don't need 100 wires sticking out of your controller. Not sure how "good" it actually is... but looks pretty damn impressive to me.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4755
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 20, 2017 9:25 pm

Pick up there cruise control switch too, if they sell it. I am going to install one because I go too slow for the controller to kick in the cruise function.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 21, 2017 5:20 am

Planning to mod my stock cyclone controller tomorrow to add a 6pin Cycle Analyst plug... planning to do this based on the HOW TO on ebikeschool.com (http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/). As far as I can tell, as long as I do the mod correctly, the controller would have the 6 pin plug to work with the CA v3 Direct Plug version (technically getting the DPS version, with the speedometer pickup), and the Cycle Analyst should be FULLY functional, including the limiting features, correct? (While I don't think I'll be using the limiting features myself, but I like the idea of having them as an option if I let someone test ride the bike, and feel that they shouldn't do so at full power)

Also, any reason why that HOW TO is not a good idea to follow (ie. anything they may have gotten wrong?)... I'm assuming it's pretty accurate, obviously my controller is setup slightly different than the one in the HOW TO, but as far as finding the right places to solder the wire, that will be easy enough (and will be double checking the connection points with a multimeter to confirm they are the correct wire points).

The only real complication I am foreseeing right now is getting th 6 wires out of the controller with the messy/large bundle that is already there (the controller in the HOW TO definitely makes me jealous in that regard, with the individual wire holes it has, especially considering it has extras). As you guys probably know, this controller has A LOT of wires, and not much additional room. I'm tempted to see if there are any wires I don't need, and could either remove, or simply tuck inside the controller, to make space. I'm not currently planning on running PAS, though I suppose I could for some reason decide I want it later on (BUT, if I'm not mistaken, since I'll be running a CA v3... couldn't I, and probably wouldn't I, wire a pedal assist to the CA instead of directly to my controller?).... which is actually a side question I had, I'm not sure what Pedal Assist works well with the Cyclone kit (I see to remember some small print somewhere talking about 1 that didn't), but with the Cycle Analyst, would I jsut be able to get any PAS that worked with that, and essentially not have to be concerned with my controller supporting the PAS?

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4755
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 21, 2017 3:30 pm

My used battery pack when new would have been 12.8Ah new at 60V, I did the trip simulator, exact everything, it states I should be using up 8Ah. My 12.8Ah pack is now only 8Ah. I would have assumed since buying it used, that the pack would have been at 10 or 11Ah, but its not.

I plan to buy 3Ah or 3.3Ah cans from NKON. It will give me a smaller pack then the 1.6Ah used cans I currently have, actually it will be exactly half the size. I can then track the Ah accurately. I'd say all I need is about a 10Ah pack, at 48V, 13S by 3P, so 40 cans costing $120.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 22, 2017 2:28 pm

I have yet to fit the cyclone on the bike yet... but wanted to ask what your guys opinion is on mounting inside the triangle?

Of course I know many frames simply won't fit the motor there, but if you have the room, seems like it would be a preferable spot for the most part. I would think the motor is better protected, also running wires from the battery would be shorter/easier to hide. But I'm guess there are also some negatives... while it would still be mounted pretty low, it would be higher than it would if mounted below the triangle... so slightly raising your center of gravity. I've also hear you can't run additional chainrings or front derailleur, but that's not a concern of mine, had no plans of either.

So, if it'll fit, think it's a good idea to mount it in the triangle?

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4755
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 22, 2017 3:42 pm

You could run 2 gears up front, just need to have the proper "capacity" Cyclone TW website sells 3 gears, 1 for motor, 2 gears. Be nice to have 52T for high speeds when the rear is in a small cog then have a (40T or smaller) for mountain climbing very steep hills.

User avatar
Skaiwerd
1 W
1 W
Posts: 52
Joined: Jun 16, 2016 4:55 am
Location: CT

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Oct 22, 2017 5:17 pm

That 90 tooth from cyclone-tw.com has me curious. Not using a front derailleur with that. Anyone know what that would be used for. Insane high speed perhaps.
Attachments
94B86196-0255-410E-901D-512F46233C45.jpeg
94B86196-0255-410E-901D-512F46233C45.jpeg (27.42 KiB) Viewed 625 times

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4755
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 22, 2017 10:33 pm

Either really slow for climbing - from motor to crank
or real fast from crank to real wheel.
Its expensive, and if its made out of steel then its worth it, if you need it.

ebike11
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 928
Joined: Nov 16, 2013 8:01 pm
Location: Korea

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Oct 23, 2017 5:08 am

Could it fit without hitting anything?

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 23, 2017 3:21 pm

OK, so I'm about to mod my stock 40amp bluetooth controller to add a Cycle Analyst 6-pin plug to it, and since there's pretty much no room to fit the cable into the main bundle of cables leaving the controller, and simply because that bundle is a total mess... I figure it would be a good idea to eliminate some wires I'll never need (or at the very least, tuck them in the controller if there is room... so I'll at least have space to get the Cycle Analyst plug out with the rest of the wires).

So, I started off by listing the different groups of wires, there are 13 of them, in no particular order... describing the wires from the controller:

1) Main Power, 2 wires: red, black (thickest wires)
2) Phase Wires, 2 wires: yellow, green (thick)
3) Phase Wire, 1 wire: blue (thick)
4) Bluetooth, 4 wires: red, green, yellow, black
5) Throttle, 3 wires: red, green, black
6) Low Brake, 2 wires: black, grey
7) Low Brake, 2 wires: black, grey (same as above, but there are 2)
8) Manual Cruise, 2 wires: black, purple+white
9) 3 Speed, 3 wires: blue, black, pink
10) Power Switch, Hall Sensor... 6 + 1 wires: yellow, blue, green, red, yellow+green, black, light red (light red separate, goes to battery harness?)
11) PAS, 3 wires: red, green, black
12) PAS ON/OFF, 2 wires: black, black
13) Reverse, 2 wires: black, brown

OK, so it's obviously safe to say some of these will not be needed on this build... and some, I'm not 100% sure on, but should be easy enough to figure out...

#13 Reverse, I don't think there is any use of this on a mid drive motor, correct?

I assume the 2 Low Brakes (#6, #7) are for the 2 brake levers to add sensors to temporarily kill the engine when the brakes are pressed?

As for #11 and #12, PAS and PAS ON/OFF... I don't plan on using pedal assist at first, but it's possible I may consider adding it later (tho unlikely). BUT, if I were to add PAS later, and since I will have a Cycle Analyst v3... would the PAS be wired to the CA, instead of the controller, making these wires useless to me?

#9, 3 Speed Button, another connector I don't think I'll be using... again, I figure I'd be using the cycle analyst to limit the motor (if I ever want to, probably only for letting people test ride the bike)... I don't think I need to keep this around either

#8 Manual Cruise, presumably this lets you add a cruise control switch... something I don't plan on doing right now, tho may come up in the future... tho, I am not sure about this, but is this also anoth control that could be wired to the CA instead of this connector?

#5, Throttle.... normally I would think this is a must have/important... BUT, again, since I am going to be using a CA v3, I'm pretty sure I would wire my throttle into that, so this is likely also unnecessary, right? (given, I may not entirely remove this, just tuck it away)


I think that pretty much covers it... aside from the connectors/wires that are completely obvious that I need. Can anyone confirm my thoughts on these?... I figure the ones I will never need, what I could do is simply cut the wire inside the controller, removing the connector and excess wire, but leave a stub that I can place a label on in case for one reason or another I decide to reattach the connector (or a new on for that matter). Of course I would wrap the stub in electrical tape, or similar, to make sure it never gets shorted out or anything like that.

On a side note, I dug up this post from a google image that caught my eye: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=81711

That upgraded mount looks amazing compared to the stock setup. Does anyone know if there is anywhere to get this, or something similar to it now?... I definitely want one!

Also, whats up with this washer mod I hear mentioned a ton of times, but can't seem to find a single post with working photos/diagrams... let alone just some photos floating around. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 642
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 23, 2017 9:27 pm

Check out my controller. I've removed pretty much everything from it in preparation for a cleaner install.

Image

You will need to jumper two wires in the 3-speed connector to enable maximum speed. On the stock 40A controller (at least on the one I got from Luna in July) , it's the black and blue wires. Not sure what they are on the Bluetooth controller. You may have to just try it out.
No need for reverse.
I would use the CA for PAS because on the CA it's adjustable.
The cruise function could be useful. I don't know if you can manually activate it on the CA. My understanding is that there is an auto setting where if your throttle is in the same position for a while, it will activate cruise.
The throttle input is necessary because the CA's throttle output connects to it. You only need the one throttle wire though (no need for the power wires).

Luna Cycle will sell mounts in the near future. In the meantime, do the side plate mod, or come up with a way to secure the end of the motor. If you buy the Cyclone 3000 from Luna Cycle, you won't need to reinforce the bracket because it already holds the end of the motor. The washer mod may not handle higher-powered setups.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1183884
progrock wrote:OK, so I'm about to mod my stock 40amp bluetooth controller to add a Cycle Analyst 6-pin plug to it, and since there's pretty much no room to fit the cable into the main bundle of cables leaving the controller, and simply because that bundle is a total mess... I figure it would be a good idea to eliminate some wires I'll never need (or at the very least, tuck them in the controller if there is room... so I'll at least have space to get the Cycle Analyst plug out with the rest of the wires).

So, I started off by listing the different groups of wires, there are 13 of them, in no particular order... describing the wires from the controller:

1) Main Power, 2 wires: red, black (thickest wires)
2) Phase Wires, 2 wires: yellow, green (thick)
3) Phase Wire, 1 wire: blue (thick)
4) Bluetooth, 4 wires: red, green, yellow, black
5) Throttle, 3 wires: red, green, black
6) Low Brake, 2 wires: black, grey
7) Low Brake, 2 wires: black, grey (same as above, but there are 2)
8) Manual Cruise, 2 wires: black, purple+white
9) 3 Speed, 3 wires: blue, black, pink
10) Power Switch, Hall Sensor... 6 + 1 wires: yellow, blue, green, red, yellow+green, black, light red (light red separate, goes to battery harness?)
11) PAS, 3 wires: red, green, black
12) PAS ON/OFF, 2 wires: black, black
13) Reverse, 2 wires: black, brown

OK, so it's obviously safe to say some of these will not be needed on this build... and some, I'm not 100% sure on, but should be easy enough to figure out...

#13 Reverse, I don't think there is any use of this on a mid drive motor, correct?

I assume the 2 Low Brakes (#6, #7) are for the 2 brake levers to add sensors to temporarily kill the engine when the brakes are pressed?

As for #11 and #12, PAS and PAS ON/OFF... I don't plan on using pedal assist at first, but it's possible I may consider adding it later (tho unlikely). BUT, if I were to add PAS later, and since I will have a Cycle Analyst v3... would the PAS be wired to the CA, instead of the controller, making these wires useless to me?

#9, 3 Speed Button, another connector I don't think I'll be using... again, I figure I'd be using the cycle analyst to limit the motor (if I ever want to, probably only for letting people test ride the bike)... I don't think I need to keep this around either

#8 Manual Cruise, presumably this lets you add a cruise control switch... something I don't plan on doing right now, tho may come up in the future... tho, I am not sure about this, but is this also anoth control that could be wired to the CA instead of this connector?

#5, Throttle.... normally I would think this is a must have/important... BUT, again, since I am going to be using a CA v3, I'm pretty sure I would wire my throttle into that, so this is likely also unnecessary, right? (given, I may not entirely remove this, just tuck it away)


I think that pretty much covers it... aside from the connectors/wires that are completely obvious that I need. Can anyone confirm my thoughts on these?... I figure the ones I will never need, what I could do is simply cut the wire inside the controller, removing the connector and excess wire, but leave a stub that I can place a label on in case for one reason or another I decide to reattach the connector (or a new on for that matter). Of course I would wrap the stub in electrical tape, or similar, to make sure it never gets shorted out or anything like that.

On a side note, I dug up this post from a google image that caught my eye: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=81711

That upgraded mount looks amazing compared to the stock setup. Does anyone know if there is anywhere to get this, or something similar to it now?... I definitely want one!

Also, whats up with this washer mod I hear mentioned a ton of times, but can't seem to find a single post with working photos/diagrams... let alone just some photos floating around. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Attachments
IMG_5353-r.jpg
IMG_5353-r.jpg (86.73 KiB) Viewed 563 times
Last edited by robocam on Oct 27, 2017 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jk1
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 336
Joined: Feb 27, 2009 6:04 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by jk1 » Oct 24, 2017 11:56 pm

Luna Cycle will sell mounts in the near future
Just saw their is a few already for sale here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=81711

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 25, 2017 3:34 am

Robocam, thank you for the reply, and I love the super clean controller wiring you got there.

OK, I was wondering about the jumper for maximum speed... I kinda expected that the Cycle Analyst would be able to do that without the jumper... or possibly even the bluetooth connectivity could also provide that ability without the need of a jumper (but I have not looked into either yet, not even sure what options the bluetooth will give me). As for which 2 wires it is on the 40A bluetooth controller.... I'm not even sure if there is ANY difference between the normal 40A controller and the Bluetooth controller (Again, I could be totally wrong here), but it sorta appears that the "bluetooth" functionality is an add-on module connected to the controller externally (then again, maybe the non bluetooth doesn't even have the connector the module goes to, I'm just assuming they are the same because there is an external bluetooth module on my controller).

As I mentioned, I'm planning to mod my controller to add the 6 pin Cycle Analyst connector (using this walk through: http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/ ). Your response about the throttle wires pointed something out I had overlooked... in the process of cleaning up this controller's wiring, and adding the CA plug, there may be a few chances to simply utilize a wire from one of the connector/wire groups I'm cleaning up. Obviously the throttle is one, I'll have to check the others. But, that actually may slightly mess up my plans.... I was thinking about using some shielded signal wire I have, it's 8 x 22 gauge pure copper wire, shielded, and wrapped in white PVC. I've been using it to upgrade/clean up the wiring of my most recent custom 3D printer build... tho it's really intended to be used for wiring inside the walls of a house/building, but I think it should be fine for this. It's technically 8 strands, but I was just going to pull out 2, so it would be the 6 I need. Looks like I could remove the majority of the wires from the controller... of course leaving the power and phase wires, the other motor connector wires (hall, etc), the bluetooth connector wires, and the 6 wires for the CA connector. I'll have to checkout the mod to the 3 speed, maybe I can just bridge it directly on my controller, and not have the wires external... probably don't need much more than those.

So to clarify, the Luna cyclone kit comes with a different mounting adapter that does already go straight to the motor?... I guess it's my fault for not looking into this myself, but I had specifically asked in this thread whether or not SBP's kit had a different mount than Luna's, and had been told it was the same.

I'm gonna look into attempting that "side plate mod" of yours... Guess I need to grab a plate of aluminum. I actually have a brand new Bosch angle grinder I bought a few months ago, with a pretty large amount of addons.... I suppose not the most ideal tool for that kind of round cut, but I'm hoping I can manage something close that'll work. Definitely wish that mount I found for $100 was still available... that honestly looked pretty legit compared to the stock, and I would say the price is fair for what goes into making something like that, that is not mass produced. Would be great if Luna, or anyone, sold an upgraded mount.... even the 2 main mount plates seem rather weak to me, I wouldn't mind having a beefed up pair of those, among other mods.

Scott76308
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 10, 2016 11:26 am

I don't think my Cyclone rpm is as high as it should be!

Post by Scott76308 » Oct 25, 2017 10:16 am

I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/mo ... ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 25, 2017 10:51 am

While I'm cleaning up the wiring on this controller... I'm thinking about upgrading some of the large capacitors (as previously brought up, the Capacitors are kinda shitty on this controller).

From a quick inspection, looking at the larger cylindrical capacitors, I see:
3 x 80v 470uf 16x25mm (the 3 largest)
3 x 25v 220uF (the 3 second to largest)
3 x 50v 47uF (the 3rd largest... smallest of the capacitors I'm looking at)

Currently, I'm primarily concerned with the three 80v capacitors... since they appear to take the input voltage, and since I'm going to be running a 20s pack... 80v is barely enough (arguably, not enough). I'm not sure about the other ones, as far as how important they are to upgrade... I assume based on their voltage capabilities, and the controllers, they do not take the full voltage that the battery supplies the controller. If anyone knows more about this, please let me know... as of right now, I'm just thinking about upgrading the 3 large ones... but if its a good idea to upgrade the other ones, I may do those as well.

Has anyone done this before?... can you recommend a specific capacitor to replace these with? (I'm thinking at least a 100v would be good... not sure what else I should be worried about with regards to the specs... obviously I plan to stick with the same 470uF capacitance, and at least the same 105C max temp, if not better if available... and of course it also needs to fit)

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 642
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 25, 2017 10:50 pm

Regarding the 3-speed connector, it's not something the CA can control because by default, when nothing is connected to the 3-speed connector, the middle speed is selected. That means that even if you send a full throttle signal to the controller, it will be limited to the middle speed. You'll have to figure out which 2 wires to short in order to enable speed 3. And yes you can leave that inside. That's actually what the black loop of wire on my board is for.

If you add a CA connector via that method, how are you going to calibrate the CA to the shunt? You would need a device that can measure the current so that you can compare its reading against the CA's. If you get a CA shunt, you won't have to worry about calibration.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... t-raw.html

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... t-ca3.html

Yes, the brackets that come with the Luna Cycle Cyclone 3000 are upgraded, and they hold the ends of the motor so that you won't need to make any reinforcements. They are also working on a custom bracket that should be available soon. It will be available in different lengths so that people can mount the motor in their triangle if they wanted to.

Regarding the caps, I wouldn't spend time/money upgrading them unless you have problems. There are many here that run 20s packs on the stock controller.
progrock wrote:Robocam, thank you for the reply, and I love the super clean controller wiring you got there.

OK, I was wondering about the jumper for maximum speed... I kinda expected that the Cycle Analyst would be able to do that without the jumper... or possibly even the bluetooth connectivity could also provide that ability without the need of a jumper (but I have not looked into either yet, not even sure what options the bluetooth will give me). As for which 2 wires it is on the 40A bluetooth controller.... I'm not even sure if there is ANY difference between the normal 40A controller and the Bluetooth controller (Again, I could be totally wrong here), but it sorta appears that the "bluetooth" functionality is an add-on module connected to the controller externally (then again, maybe the non bluetooth doesn't even have the connector the module goes to, I'm just assuming they are the same because there is an external bluetooth module on my controller).

As I mentioned, I'm planning to mod my controller to add the 6 pin Cycle Analyst connector (using this walk through: http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/ ). Your response about the throttle wires pointed something out I had overlooked... in the process of cleaning up this controller's wiring, and adding the CA plug, there may be a few chances to simply utilize a wire from one of the connector/wire groups I'm cleaning up. Obviously the throttle is one, I'll have to check the others. But, that actually may slightly mess up my plans.... I was thinking about using some shielded signal wire I have, it's 8 x 22 gauge pure copper wire, shielded, and wrapped in white PVC. I've been using it to upgrade/clean up the wiring of my most recent custom 3D printer build... tho it's really intended to be used for wiring inside the walls of a house/building, but I think it should be fine for this. It's technically 8 strands, but I was just going to pull out 2, so it would be the 6 I need. Looks like I could remove the majority of the wires from the controller... of course leaving the power and phase wires, the other motor connector wires (hall, etc), the bluetooth connector wires, and the 6 wires for the CA connector. I'll have to checkout the mod to the 3 speed, maybe I can just bridge it directly on my controller, and not have the wires external... probably don't need much more than those.

So to clarify, the Luna cyclone kit comes with a different mounting adapter that does already go straight to the motor?... I guess it's my fault for not looking into this myself, but I had specifically asked in this thread whether or not SBP's kit had a different mount than Luna's, and had been told it was the same.

I'm gonna look into attempting that "side plate mod" of yours... Guess I need to grab a plate of aluminum. I actually have a brand new Bosch angle grinder I bought a few months ago, with a pretty large amount of addons.... I suppose not the most ideal tool for that kind of round cut, but I'm hoping I can manage something close that'll work. Definitely wish that mount I found for $100 was still available... that honestly looked pretty legit compared to the stock, and I would say the price is fair for what goes into making something like that, that is not mass produced. Would be great if Luna, or anyone, sold an upgraded mount.... even the 2 main mount plates seem rather weak to me, I wouldn't mind having a beefed up pair of those, among other mods.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 26, 2017 2:24 am

robocam, thank you again for the information. Of course I was originally going to order the shunt for the CA when I ordered it... but after reading that how to, and there being no mention of it being needed there (would think there would be a note on the how to... the way it's described is as if when done, it's just as good as having a CA connector from the start). I'm going to read into this more... and see if I can find something locally (or from amazon, or somewhere that I don't have to pay for shipping from Canada)... if not, I'll have to order from them again.

Would be great if Luna released their new mount soon... but I don't plan on waiting to get this motor on the bike... BUT can always upgrade later. I guess the one saving grace is that Luna still doesn't have the kit in stock (I had been waiting for ~3 months... then someone recommended SBP's for the kit, and I was told it had the same mounting bracket as Luna... which was definitely confusing when I first looked at how the bracket attached in person.. though I was sent the wrong size at first). Even their current bracket looks much better, considering it goes directly to the motor... but if they have a custom one specific to your BB size coming soon... that sounds like it'll be a step up, hopefully not too expensive... that $100 one would have been nice if it was still available.

As for the capacitors.. well, it really would not be much work, and they aren't that expensive... but I guess I can hold off for now.

BTW, is that 1/8" aluminum piece you used for your custom mount really only 2" wide?... maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.. but seems a little wider.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 26, 2017 3:16 am

ROBOCAM, I'm kinda confused about 1 part of your plate mod. Why are you taking 1/4" x 3/8" spacers and putting them in 3/8" x 1/2".... Why would you not just get 1/4" x 1/2" in the first place?... I'm so confused.

DingusMcGee
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb 23, 2015 7:11 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Oct 26, 2017 7:20 am

Robo

Regarding the caps, I wouldn't spend time/money upgrading them unless you have problems. There are many here that run 20s packs on the stock controller.
In some cross chat with Gman I said I was running 20S. The 20S battery was incorrect as I am running 21S. I got the 3S pack by splitting a 6S pack. That gives me 84v max. No problems here.

see:


Repacking LiPo's to close-in on your Controllers Max Voltage

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1268222

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 759
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 26, 2017 1:15 pm

Here are images of the motor:

Image
Image
Image
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

Post Reply