new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 26, 2017 4:06 pm

Oh I just used that because that's what I found at Lowes. Menards has some that are like the ones you describe. The main idea is to keep the end of the motor secured. How you do it can vary, and different bottom bracket widths will require different spacers.
progrock wrote:ROBOCAM, I'm kinda confused about 1 part of your plate mod. Why are you taking 1/4" x 3/8" spacers and putting them in 3/8" x 1/2".... Why would you not just get 1/4" x 1/2" in the first place?... I'm so confused.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 26, 2017 6:01 pm

OK, just wanted to confirm that... wasn't sure if I was somehow misinterpreting what you did. And yes, I know different widths will require different spacers/bolts. My BB is 73mm, so I plan to put together the motor/mount with the stock parts... get a feel for the size, then start figuring out what I can do, and what I'll need to beef up my mount. Using both your example and Dingus' to hopefully figure out something similar. Also considering getting some titanium bolts.... their prices have gone down recently, not much more expensive than steel.... and I figure the extra strength and corrosion resistance won't hurt (and while I know it won't be by much, they will also be a little but lighter... but the strength + corrosion resistance is my main reason for considering them).

I'm going to try to work out a plan for my setup, then will probably post it here it see if anyone can point out potential flaws in... then I'll just have to make it happen, and hopefully it'll all work out.

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 747
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 26, 2017 7:43 pm

Don't get titanium fasteners unless you want to throw money away. Especially bargain basement Chinese. They probably won't be stronger, will save practically zero weight in terms of the whole bike build, and you can just use stainless to get corrosion resistance for less money. Let's be honest the only real reason to have them is to feel good about the badass material on your bike / brag, but at that point you're like "yo I have titanium" while rocking a cheap chinese industrial motor and even cheaper powertrain accessories on a non-exotic frame... :D
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6093
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Oct 27, 2017 1:17 am

Flat tire says, correctly, that Ti is not as strong as steel used in fasteners. But there's more.

Ti suffers galvanic corrosion when used with other metals, and it suffers surface galling when used with many other metals and worst of all with other titanium parts. Look up "Ti paste" to see what measures you must take to make titanium fasteners workable. It's just a terrible, terrible choice for screws and nuts, exceeded only maybe by aluminum.

Alloy steel makes the strongest commonly used bolts. Stainless isn't nearly as strong, but it has other advantages. Either one beats any other material you can think of for that job.

Consider this: in aircraft, any bit of weight savings results in more payload and more profit. But aircraft use AN fasteners, which are a not unusually strong but very consistent and thoroughly characterized type of steel fastener with cadmium plating. They're very expensive due to fastidious record keeping. Why would they use steel if a significantly lighter titanium fastener worked just as well?
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 27, 2017 3:30 am

I appreciate the info on titanium... and to be clear, if I were to get titanium bolts, it would be Grade 5 titanium, which I'm pretty sure is considerably stronger than steel alloys (tho could be wrong)... I'm aware that Grade 2 Ti would be pointless. And, again weight really has nothing to do with it... it would be strength/corrosion resistance.... but gonna have to read into galvanic corrosion (did not know Ti suffered this... I remember a couple of my mechanic friends bringing it up with regards to mixing certain metals... I forget which they were talking about, possibly aluminum and steel, or something like that). And as for the cost difference.... it's really not much anymore, when it comes to small quantities (ie. if I only need 1-2 of a certain bolt size, a lot of the time the price is comparable to steel.... of course when buying 20-100 of the same bolt that is not true... but with a custom mount, there are a few large bolts that I only need 1-2).

Anyway, thanks for the info, will do some more research on the subject.... was really just thinking about using a few for the large bolts in the mount... and not cheap chinese low grade Ti. But if galvanic corrosion is an issue... and if steel alloys truly are comparable in strenght, guess it wouldn't make sense. But either way, I'm going to read into this a little... Titanium is going to be more and more popular in the coming years, considering it's abundance naturally, advancements in smelting and tooling techniques, and for it's positive aspects.... strength, weight, corrosion resistance (apparently this one is only when not mixed with certain metals) etc.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 27, 2017 4:40 am

Robocam, you mentioned activating the high speed mode required jumping 2 wires on the 3 speed controller. This has been posted all over the place on forums and videos.... BUT... you said the blue and black wires... every single other place I have looked says it's the pink and black wires. The black wire is GND, so obviously 1 of the 2 needs to be tied to ground to activate the high speed mode (unless you are both right, and you just need to connect either to GND to achieve this). Either way... seems like everyone else says it's the pink.... where did you get the info to do the blue wire?

Also, SOME people (I believe I saw gman did this in a post in the thread) actually put a resistor between the 2, not just a wire. Can anyone chime in on this, does it matter whether its just a solid wire or if a pull down resistor has some benefit over a solid wire in this case?

Either way, I'm going to remove the connector and just solder in a small wire to connect whichever one is the correct one to ground (and if it makes sense, throw a resister in there....)

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 27, 2017 10:50 am

Hey robocam, I actually wasn't even looking for this at the time, but just stumbled upon a very relevant video. It's a short video describing a technique to measure/calculate the shunt resistance on a controller, in order to calibrate a CA. It's pretty hilarious that I just stumbled upon this when looking up something unrelated.... on top of that, I literally just received an iCharger i purchased a few days ago, was unaware of the "foam cutting" feature... but apparently I have exactly what I need to do this, and it solves one of my current problems with the install (and pretty happy I don't need to use an external shunt to calibrate my CA correctly... now I can add the 6 pin connector, and be good to go).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okpFsoHNE7I

I will say, it seems bit weird/sketchy to pump 10amps through the controller "backwards"... seems like it could be dangerous... but it seems like this guy does it to every controller he makes/sells, and doesn't seem to cause any problems for him.

Also, I know you guys said not to waste my time upgrading the main capacitors on the controller, that the stock ones will suffice... but considering I'm already modding the controller (removed about half of the wires/connectors already... also gonna bridge the 3 speed directly on the controller, since I removed the connect, just need to confirm whether it is the blue or pink wire that needs to go to ground... as well as add the 6 pin CA wires/connector)... and while the stock capacitors apparently will function with a 20s pack, I've heard that when capacitors are ran near their peak V, they tend to leak, among other negative effects. I added a few 100v capacitors to an order from Arrow (they are only ~$1.50 a piece, so not very expensive)... I ordered 2 different (tho similar) capacitors. Both are 470uF 100V, just one is considered "Low ESR" while the other is a more or less standard capacitor. From what I understand, the Low ESR Capacitors should be preferred in this situation.... but if I got that wrong, I have the others that'll do the job (Can anyone confirm that the Low ESR ones are the better choice here?). The other benefit to the Low ESR capacitors, is they have a significantly higher lifetime, speced at 8000h... while I believe the other ones were 2000h (which seemed to be by far the most common lifetime rating). I figure for $5, and a few extra minutes of my time... it's worth upgrading the capacitors before something potentially goes wrong. I'm also debating on beefing up the main traces on the board with some bare solid copper wire I have (as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JIXnt6bn0Q&t=215s )... I know it's not really necessary, but seems like it might not be a bad idea.

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 747
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 27, 2017 1:19 pm

How the heck are you taking the controller apart and removing all that stuff but you can't figure out if a wire goes to ground?
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 27, 2017 2:11 pm

Umm, what?... I'm asking which of the 2 wires are supposed to go to ground in order to enable high speed mode. Withotu a running controller, or any documentation, it's 50/50 guess. And Robocam said 1 color... while it seems like everywhere else says the other.

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 747
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 27, 2017 6:25 pm

You can find out really easily yourself by switching, there are only 2 possibilities (third is unconnected).

In other news I finally got this thing working sensorless with my powervelocity. It's working great and there's plenty of torque even from a dead stop.
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

wsntme
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 27, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: I don't think my Cyclone rpm is as high as it should be!

Post by wsntme » Oct 27, 2017 8:01 pm

I ran your test on my bike with cyclone 3000, stock 40amp controller, and 18s LiPo. To limit full throttle speed to 25 my gearing was; 14t motor, 44/44t lunatic crank, 28t rear cog. Plugging that into your supplied calculator gives me around 635rpm motor speed. I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.
Scott76308 wrote:I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/mo ... ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 27, 2017 9:08 pm

I have 2 stock 40A Cyclone controllers, and the wires for the 3-speed connector are different. On the one I purchased in July this year, the 3-speed connector wires are black, white and blue/white. If I were to guess, you should go with the pink and black you've found, and like flat tire mentioned, all you have to do is try all the combinations. That's how I did it.
progrock wrote:Robocam, you mentioned activating the high speed mode required jumping 2 wires on the 3 speed controller. This has been posted all over the place on forums and videos.... BUT... you said the blue and black wires... every single other place I have looked says it's the pink and black wires. The black wire is GND, so obviously 1 of the 2 needs to be tied to ground to activate the high speed mode (unless you are both right, and you just need to connect either to GND to achieve this). Either way... seems like everyone else says it's the pink.... where did you get the info to do the blue wire?

Also, SOME people (I believe I saw gman did this in a post in the thread) actually put a resistor between the 2, not just a wire. Can anyone chime in on this, does it matter whether its just a solid wire or if a pull down resistor has some benefit over a solid wire in this case?

Either way, I'm going to remove the connector and just solder in a small wire to connect whichever one is the correct one to ground (and if it makes sense, throw a resister in there....)

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 27, 2017 9:13 pm

I just did a quick search, and what I gather is that titanium is not as strong as high-grade steel. I used a couple stainless steel bolts (because that's all I could find at Lowes with a countersunk head), so you'll probably be ok using titanium but I don't see any reason to use titanium.

http://faqload.com/faqs/bicycle-compone ... rbon-fiber

http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/t ... ost8048011
progrock wrote:I appreciate the info on titanium... and to be clear, if I were to get titanium bolts, it would be Grade 5 titanium, which I'm pretty sure is considerably stronger than steel alloys (tho could be wrong)...

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: I don't think my Cyclone rpm is as high as it should be!

Post by robocam » Oct 27, 2017 9:19 pm

I thought about "upgrading" to the Kelly controller but when I searched about the subject, all I found were people with problems. It would be nice if someone figured it out. I also thought about getting the 60A Bluetooth programmable controller but shunt-modding the stock controller is so easy (Gman is at 90A), and I can limit the current with a Cycle Analyst, so I went with the tried and true stock 40A controller again. However, one reason I might get the Bluetooth model is if I can make the throttle respond more quickly.
wsntme wrote:...I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.
Last edited by robocam on Oct 28, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Oct 27, 2017 9:26 pm

That's pretty cool that you found that video. If you don't want to send power into it like that, I imagine you could just connect the wires across the shunt to do the same thing.

On my board, I just added some solder to a few key areas (the traces to the transistors and a few other areas). You can tell where I added solder because it's shiny.

Image
progrock wrote:Hey robocam, I actually wasn't even looking for this at the time, but just stumbled upon a very relevant video. It's a short video describing a technique to measure/calculate the shunt resistance on a controller, in order to calibrate a CA. It's pretty hilarious that I just stumbled upon this when looking up something unrelated.... on top of that, I literally just received an iCharger i purchased a few days ago, was unaware of the "foam cutting" feature... but apparently I have exactly what I need to do this, and it solves one of my current problems with the install (and pretty happy I don't need to use an external shunt to calibrate my CA correctly... now I can add the 6 pin connector, and be good to go).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okpFsoHNE7I

I will say, it seems bit weird/sketchy to pump 10amps through the controller "backwards"... seems like it could be dangerous... but it seems like this guy does it to every controller he makes/sells, and doesn't seem to cause any problems for him.

Also, I know you guys said not to waste my time upgrading the main capacitors on the controller, that the stock ones will suffice... but considering I'm already modding the controller (removed about half of the wires/connectors already... also gonna bridge the 3 speed directly on the controller, since I removed the connect, just need to confirm whether it is the blue or pink wire that needs to go to ground... as well as add the 6 pin CA wires/connector)... and while the stock capacitors apparently will function with a 20s pack, I've heard that when capacitors are ran near their peak V, they tend to leak, among other negative effects. I added a few 100v capacitors to an order from Arrow (they are only ~$1.50 a piece, so not very expensive)... I ordered 2 different (tho similar) capacitors. Both are 470uF 100V, just one is considered "Low ESR" while the other is a more or less standard capacitor. From what I understand, the Low ESR Capacitors should be preferred in this situation.... but if I got that wrong, I have the others that'll do the job (Can anyone confirm that the Low ESR ones are the better choice here?). The other benefit to the Low ESR capacitors, is they have a significantly higher lifetime, speced at 8000h... while I believe the other ones were 2000h (which seemed to be by far the most common lifetime rating). I figure for $5, and a few extra minutes of my time... it's worth upgrading the capacitors before something potentially goes wrong. I'm also debating on beefing up the main traces on the board with some bare solid copper wire I have (as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JIXnt6bn0Q&t=215s )... I know it's not really necessary, but seems like it might not be a bad idea.
Attachments
IMG_5291-r.jpg
IMG_5291-r.jpg (233.77 KiB) Viewed 120 times

minimum
1 W
1 W
Posts: 51
Joined: Nov 10, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Oct 28, 2017 1:00 am

flat tire wrote:In other news I finally got this thing working sensorless with my powervelocity. It's working great and there's plenty of torque even from a dead stop.
Any changes/modifications needed for that? How is the takeoff from stop? How is upper half of RPM, no sputtering/smooth as lower end RPM?

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 28, 2017 9:18 am

Yeah, of course I know I it's a quick test to see which wires to bridge on the 3 speed.... BUT, I was a little trigger happy, removing every wire I don't plan on using... which included the 3 speed wires. I figured it shouldn't be too hard to confirm which is the correct wire, I am leaning towards Pink and Black (ie. simply attaching a wire to bridge where the pink wire used to be attached to any open ground pin, rather than have an unnecessary connector... which just makes things harder to test... hoping my first try is correct). BTW, my Pink wire was connected to the board's #19 thru hole (assuming the boards are at least numbered the same... which is more likely true than having the same color wires).

While I was cleaning up my controller, in case I ever needed to bring a connector back, I made a reference of ever single connector/wire's PCB attachment points. I figure someone MAY find this useful in the future, so might as well post my values (in no particular order)

Cyclone 3000w 40A Bluetooth Stock Controller Wiring (reference):

1) Power
  • Red: VB+
  • Black: VB-
2) Phase
  • Green: '#' A
  • Yellow: '#' B
  • Blue: '#' C
3) Main Motor Connector
  • Yellow: #8 - HA
  • Blue: #10 - HC
  • Green: #9 - HB
  • Red (Power Switch): #18 [][][][x]
  • Yellow+Green (Hall Sensor): #4.3B [][][x][]
  • Black (Hall Sensor): GND
  • Red: (doesn't go to controller)
** The #18 [][][][x] means this wire was connected to the 4th of 4 of the #18 connection holes (though it may or may not matter which spot is used, but probably safer to keep it consistent)

4) Bluetooth
  • Red: *The first leg, just right of #17 (not a hole)
  • Green: #21
  • Yellow: #22
  • Black: GND

5) Throttle
  • Green: #13
  • Red: #4.3A [][x]
  • Black: GND
6) Manual Cruise
  • Purple+White: #26/20
  • Black: GND
7) Low Brake (both)
  • Grey: #11
  • Black: GND
8) 3 Speed
  • Pink: #19
  • Blue: #17
  • Black: GND
**Bridging #19 (Pink) to GND (Black) should set controller to full power mode, without the need of a 3 speed switch

9) PAS
  • Green #7
  • Red: #4.3B [][][][x]
  • Black: GND
10) PAS ON/OFF
  • Black (Female): #27
  • Black (Male): GND
11) Reverse
  • Brown: #23
  • Black: GND
***Some colors may vary (I will try to add the actual connector order/orientation later to help identify correct pins with different color wires)

Can anyone with stock Cyclone 40A controller help confirm that my numbers are indeed correct on your controller.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4725
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 28, 2017 6:40 pm

Thanks for the good info, I've not been able to get into the cont via Bluetooth. Not that I really even bothered past the first few tries. My kits still installed, cont's been stored. Riding hub motor. Too many looks and gazes my way. Another reason is I like 36V, but on Cyclone its not fast enough, on 4T hub its good. Going 2wd + actually pedaling if I want to hill climb. The hills around here, very short, a cpl rare hills are very steep and very short.

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 747
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Oct 28, 2017 8:37 pm

minimum wrote:
flat tire wrote:In other news I finally got this thing working sensorless with my powervelocity. It's working great and there's plenty of torque even from a dead stop.
Any changes/modifications needed for that? How is the takeoff from stop? How is upper half of RPM, no sputtering/smooth as lower end RPM?
Take off from a stop is super smooth and powerful, did surprise me a little. Feels no different from running sensored. Haven't ridden it too much but did run it to max rpm in lower gear and it feels like it's working perfectly the whole way up.
Orange DH w/ Cyclone mid on 6kw
Gary Fisher w/ Leaf hub on 6kw
RC Lipo and domino throttles only!

Scott76308
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 10, 2016 11:26 am

Re: I don't think my Cyclone rpm is as high as it should be!

Post by Scott76308 » Oct 28, 2017 8:49 pm

Thank you so much for testing that! I did figure out my Kelly controller has a small connector for a 3 way switch. I think that will increase my RPM as it is only in the middle setting when disconnected. I thought something didn't seem right.
wsntme wrote:I ran your test on my bike with cyclone 3000, stock 40amp controller, and 18s LiPo. To limit full throttle speed to 25 my gearing was; 14t motor, 44/44t lunatic crank, 28t rear cog. Plugging that into your supplied calculator gives me around 635rpm motor speed. I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.
Scott76308 wrote:I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/mo ... ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

wsntme
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 27, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: I don't think my Cyclone rpm is as high as it should be!

Post by wsntme » Oct 30, 2017 10:07 am

If you get it working at the higher power level, please let me (us) know how you did it!
I messed with the connection that should be for the 3way switch, trying different combinations of shorted wires. I did find a pair that seemed to give much more power, but it would just shut down after a short application of power....then it would not work again until I disconnected and reconnected power to the controller. It did not flash any codes or change LED colors at all....never figured it out.
Scott76308 wrote:Thank you so much for testing that! I did figure out my Kelly controller has a small connector for a 3 way switch. I think that will increase my RPM as it is only in the middle setting when disconnected. I thought something didn't seem right.
wsntme wrote:I ran your test on my bike with cyclone 3000, stock 40amp controller, and 18s LiPo. To limit full throttle speed to 25 my gearing was; 14t motor, 44/44t lunatic crank, 28t rear cog. Plugging that into your supplied calculator gives me around 635rpm motor speed. I too have the kelly controller for the cyclone and i couldn't figure out how to get the power out of it, always felt weak.....so i went back to the $40 stock one.
Scott76308 wrote:I have my new Cyclone installed with a Luna 72v battery and Luna's 72v Kelly controller wired and programmed for the Cyclone and Luna thumb throttle with voltage gauge on it. Based off of my Calculations it is spinning about 450 rpm, full throttle at 25mph. I have had the bike to 32 but based my calculations off of what gear it is in to top out at 25 to reduce wind resistance/max speed variations etc.
Can anyone please help compare their rpm! I spent hours going through all these posts and thought my motor would spin 600-700rpm based off others speeds and gearing. Here is a killer speed calculator, all you have to do is put in all gearing and tire info and guess different rpms until the speed comes close to what you do in that gear. If you put it in a gear that would cause you to top out at 25mph that would be even better for comparison sake.

https://www.electricscooterparts.com/mo ... ratio.html

PS my 72v battery was about 79v 14t-motor driving 47t, 48t inner ring driving 20t on the cassette turning a 26.5 tire and it tops out about 25mph which came to 450 rpm.

Any insight or info anyone can give is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Oct 31, 2017 12:10 am

Robocam, is that the back side of a stock 40A controller? If so... wow mine looks different. Aside from everythign having numbers on mine instead of letters identifying each connection (letters does seem a little easier if they make sense.... but I have mine mapped out to the numbers, as I posted above, so god enough for me). One thing I find drastically different is the amount of solder between the main positive and negative battery connections, and the shunts on the back. Mine has a TON over there, including what appears to be a wire soldered in on the main positive (very similar to what one of the videos I posted a link to showed.. but only a ltitle more than an inch long). Ironically, the extra solder was a huge PITA when it came to replacing the capacitors. Had to wick up a ton of it to get to the connections clean enough to pull them out (that much solder really dissipates heat quite a bit, luckily I have a half dozen different tips for my Hakko FX-951, and one of the large ones made the work easy enough). Though, after my experience with this, I went and purchased a Hakko FR-300 (a desoldering gun that's self contained, with an internal pump)... should come handy in the future, and seems like a highly recommended tool (I'm already a big hakko fan, and other options were drastically more expensive).

I'm just about done replacing the capacitors and installing the 6 wires for my Cycle Analyst connector. Then I need to add back a bunch of the solder I removed... and while I do that, was also gonna add 2 pieces of either 10awg or 12awg bare solid copper wire across the 2 main traces on the back of my board (as seen in the video I posted). I also connected where the pink 3 speed wire was directly to ground with a short wire (hopefully that is the correct one, got at least a 50% chance, and seems like it was for most people). Pretty close to done with all the controller mods, next up I'll be trying to make the stock mount a little stronger.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4725
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Oct 31, 2017 10:51 pm

default lvc is set to 32V, anything under it cuts out. the last 1.0V from 33V down to 32V it seems as though its not full bore, seems as if the cont pulls back because its getting close.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 01, 2017 11:38 am

Completed my controller mods, added the Cycle Analyst connector (http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/), and used the techinque in the video i previous posted (https://youtu.be/okpFsoHNE7I) to calculate my Rshunt (got 1.65 mOhm, will confirm once I get everything running and plug that into the CA to see if it all appears to work accurately). I definitely prefer this, over using the adapter cable with it's own shunt to connect a Cycle Analyst to a controller without a native connector (and it is relatively easy to add). Adding the CA cable was definitely easy... but some of the other mods were a little sketchier (I say there's at least a 10% chance I may have ended up braking the controller... but it's low enough that I'm pretty sure everything will be fine... just won't be terribly surprised if something goes wrong, haha). But got some good quality 100v capacitors on the controller now, and beefed up the main traces by adding some 12 awg solid copper wire and solder (https://youtu.be/-JIXnt6bn0Q)... changing capacitors required removing a good amount of solder (which I later replaced), and obviously adding the 12awg wire required a large amount of soldering.... both mods I wouldn't recommend to anyone that's not confident in their solder work... I've had a good amount of practice soldering to PCBs in the past, but still not a pro (hence me estimating the ~10% chance things may go wrong). But again, adding the CA connector was by far the easiest mod, second easiest was removing every wire/connector I have no plans of using (also did the 'speed' mod, connecting what used to be 1 of the 3 speed wires directly to GND).

Now I just need to add some thermal paste to the metal backing of the MOSFETs (probably gonna clean up what's on it already, and replace with my own... I'm sure plenty of what was there already got wiped off accidentally during the other mods, plus could use a cleaning anyway... and not sure how good of an idea it is to mix different thermal pastes, tho likely not the end of the world). Once that's done, will be sealing up the controller (hopefully for good, tho might need to open it up to test out the speed mod... or if anything goes wrong). After that, I plan to replace at least the main power connector with an anti spark XT90S connector (tho also considering using AS150 connectors instead, just got a good deal on 5 sets). I'm also considering replacing the 2 phase connectors with some XT150 connectors (got 3 different colors of those, and I like the smaller/cleaner design of the XT150 connectors over the bulky stock ones that came with the controller/motor). The only connectors left si the 7 wire to the motor, the bluetooth adapter, and 1 'low brake' connector (got rid of 1 of those since I don't have any gear on the bike, but left this one since I have a pair of brake sensors that'll connect to it). And lastly, I just need to replace the hot glue I removed that was holding all the wires in the outlet port on the controller (presumably was there primarily to help 'waterproof' the controller... I'm probably gonna put a piece of PVC shrink tubing over it as well, should help a lot in keeping water out). The controller definitely looks much better with more than half the wires/connectors removed... definitely much cleaner than having a bunch of loose wires zip-tied together just hanging off the controller.

Next up, finally gonna take care of figuring out a way to strengthen the mounts on this motor. Sadly I'm much better with electronics than I am with machining a mount (and unlike electronics work, I don't have a large number of tools to do the job). But hopefully I can figure something out that is within my means.

progrock
100 W
100 W
Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 02, 2017 8:47 am

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 01, 2017 7:05 pm

Looks like I'm probably gonna go with some AS150 connectors for my main battery connections, just got 5 sets at a good price, shipped in under a week (http://a.co/00PZEi1). Hopefully the XT150 connectors I ordered a couple of weeks ago get here soon, then I can use them for my phase wires (got 3 pairs of different colors coming, so pretty much perfect, plus will look nice and clean next to the AS150 connectors)

Post Reply