new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Nov 01, 2017 10:37 pm

If your mount is like mine the back of the motor will flex forward under power so a quick fix is to install a bracket on the back and attach that to the bike or the bb plate on that side.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Alex07 » Nov 04, 2017 8:39 pm

im thinking of copying this ultimate c3000w mid drive build:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=75

But i would like to upgrade some of the week points discussed, i.e better brackets, maybe controller i also some pictures about broken gears where to get this stuff from ?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 04, 2017 11:52 pm

Man, gman, was just watching some of your trike (aka batmobile) videos.... that things looks fun!... How's riding a etrike compared to riding an ebike?... seems like it would be more fun. Got any recommendations on a good trike to throw a cyclone on?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 05, 2017 7:32 am

Soo... I realized cyclone actually sell's the upgraded install bracket for this motor (http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com/motor.html) ... presumably it's what Luna's kit already has (and I would hope SBP will be getting it soon). Anyway, $35 isn't bad.. sadly shipping was supposed to be $35 (not exactly cheap).. and even worse, when I actually went to pay, shipping to California went up to $52.50 (pretty crazy... I could see that for the motor, but for the bracket, pretty damn high). I was willing to do the $35, but that was just too high.

Onto the good news... I emailed their sale's support (30 minutes ago, at 4am PST on Sunday morning)... the shocking part... I got a response 1 minute later (no joke 1 minute... my optimistic hope for a response was sometime Tuesday if I was lucky). Had inquired if there was anywhere else I could order from, explaining the high shipping. They simply told me to order, and they would refund me $20 (so ended up being $32.50 shipping... could be worse). I ordered, and minutes later received the refund. Hopefully I'll get even luckier and they will ship it quick.

I know, still kinda pricey for a mount that's still not amazing... but definitely seems like a good improvement. Still wish someone would come out with a nicer one (sounds like Luna might be.. though I really don't know where that info comes from... but hopefully it's accurate). But, whatever, I figure it's still worth it.. being the only option aside from fabricating one (which I was and still am, tempted to do... just I live in a studio apartment, if I had a garage to do the work I'd be doing it right now... but I still might end up doing it anyway, or at least attempting to... already got two 1/8" x 3" x 12" aluminum plates, and an angle grinder I'm very tempted to try with)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Jasonafriedman » Nov 06, 2017 12:36 am

Hey everyone! Fairly new to the E-Bike scene and I have decided that I am getting a cyclone. I started off with a BBs02 on a mountain bike, but I want something more exciting. I bought a Motobecane fatbike today used for $400! It will be excellent.

I will be making my own pack. Thinking maybe 19s, 3p 18650. In the meantime I will be using lipos I have leftover from radio control stuff.

A few questions before I buy:
1) where is the current cheapest place to buy the kit? I live in the US.
2) what controller should I use for 72v? Something programmable might be nice so I can adjust the ramping up of power.
3) Do I really need an e brake cutoff? Seems somewhat useless?
4) Is the cycle analyst worth the trouble and cost? I really only want to know my voltage...

Thanks! Looking forward to the build and 3000w. Later in winter, I plan on putting a ski on the front of my bike:)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 06, 2017 4:29 am

Jason, sound like you're planning something similar to what I am doing.

So the Cyclone 3000w kit in the US... you have 2 options... http://sickbikeparts.com and http://lunacycle.com

I believe both are the same price, but both are slightly different (with regards to what the kit comes with, and what upgrades you can do... as well as just people's preference on which company is better to deal with). First off, check if both have in stock.. I ordered mine a few weeks ago from sickbikeparts... I didn't know they carried it (had been waiting for months for luna to get it in stock) and they came highly recommended by people on the forum. I think Luna might have just finally got theirs back in stock. Second, one important thing worth mentioning (I was actually given the wrong information on this)... Luna's kit comes with the newer/better mounting bracket... The original bracket, what SBPs still has, seems pretty inadequate in person, THO there's like a dozen different mods people have done to improve it. Luna's bracket isn't incredible, but definitely better, and you MIGHT be able to make due without any mods. BUT, if you are like me, and got it from SBPs, you can actually order the bracket directly from cyclone in taiwan (http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com)... I just did yesterday. It's $35 and shipping originally showed up as $35 (so $70 total) but when I went to pay, suddenly it went up to ~$53 shipping. I emailed to complain/ask for other options (at 4am PST Sunday morning, nto expecting a response for days)... got a response 1 minute later... told me to order, and they would refund me $20 (which they did immediately.. AND they have already shipped it and given me a EMS tracking number, so should be here SOO much faster than I had expected). SBP's kit comes with a chain, and I think there may be one or two other small differences... and each site's upgrade options are way different. Luna makes it easier to upgrade (BUT, if you email SBPs, they will tell you to order the 'upgrades' you want, comment in you order, and they will refund you some money). I had my eyes on the Luna tic crankset/freewheel upgrade... but got SBPs Ultra HD Freewheel upgrade (made by white industries... so definitely quality.. but very pricey for a freewheel.. BUT I am a big fan of white industries).

Now, with that all said, and if both have it in stock.. you'd probably be leaning towards Luna (again, this is partially dependent on what upgrades you want... tho most importantly, whether you want to build your own mount/enhancements, or have to order one from Taiwan, vs getting the better one in the kit. BUT, there is more to the story... while Luna definitely seems like a legit reputable company (I have no reason to think differently, others may argue)... SBPs totally wins on customer service. For me Luna took days to answer every email, and rarely answered all my questions... with SBPs, I emailed them in the morning, got a ful response within an hour... and through that day had something like a 15 email conversation ending with me ordering from them. I've also heard multiple people say that if they were to have issues with the kit/motor... they would feel much safer dealing with SBPs (again, I personally have nothing bad to say about Luna.. BUT I can say I think SBPs is wayy more responsive and much easier to get a hold of... Luna seems a little stretched too thin). I personally do not regret at all ordering from SBPs, and would do so again... THO... it would be a tough decision, Luna definitely has it's benefits (I wish SBPs would just get the upgraded mount, then it would be much easier... but considering how quick cyclone's service ended up being... not a big deal to me right now).

Second, if you want a 72v battery... I believe that's generally considered a 20s, not 19s (given at full charge a 20s is higher than 72v... BUT 20s is the highest supported by the stock controller... it;s what I'm going with.. and I am also building my own pack).

For me, I wanted a pack that would hit the 3000w mark, BUT it needs to be as light as possible (I don't have an elevator in my building, and need to carry the bike up/down a flight of stairs to use each time).... and 95% of my rides on this will be in the 1-4 mile range, so I don't need high capacity normally. I ended up findidng the Sanyo 20700A battery... a 30A 3,1000mAh per a cell (YES 30AMP continuous per cell)... meanging, instead of needing 80-100+ batteries to hit the 3000w mark... I can do it with 40. On top of that, you can get these batteries from brand new Bosch 18v 6.3ah battery packs (10 per a pack... and can get 2 packs for $105 shipped on ebay brand new http://r.ebay.com/DSNQ84)... AND to top it off.. for my 20s2p pack, it's literally exactly 4 bosch 18v 6.3ah battery packs in series.... SO i can make use of their current structure, with their 'coolpack 2.0' battery holder technology, and their laser welded copper plates... a win, win, win for me. And I plan on eeither have 2-3 of these packs (so I have an option for longer rides) or I might just make a second pack twice the size, a 20s4p. Either way.. these batteries are from a top brand... very high quality.. the new 20700 form factor... and at an incredible price (comes to $5.25 a battery).... plus I get the bonuses I just described on top of the batteries. On top of all that, these are pretty new battery packs from Bosch... so buying them off ebay at an incredible price does not mean I am getting old/defunct battery packs.. they are all pretty much brand new. I can't recommend them more.

As for ebrake cutoff... others may say different.. but I don;t think it's that necessary. Given, I did get them... but only because I found a set brand new on ebay for half price. THO, it seems a lot of people don't like the stock ones, finding them hard to install (I know grin, the makers of the cycle analyst, has a new design that seems much better, but cost a little more, nothing crazy)

As for the cycle analyst.. do you need one, probably not... But again, I absolutely bought one... did not hesitate or have to think about it. It's not too expensive, and has TON of benefits to it.... too many to list... some major, some small.. but both major and small ones can be really nice. But, you can always get one later if you don't get one now.... but I feel like it's almost a must have based on how useful they are.

Anyway, hope that answers your questions... and good luck... should be a fun bike when you are done.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Jasonafriedman » Nov 06, 2017 11:37 am

Thanks for the reply!
Those Bosch batteries look nice, but my brother can get genuine Panasonic 18650 cells for $4.5 a piece. It will probably be worth it to make our own. What controller are you going to be using?

I am fine modding the motor mounts, I have access to a machine shop. Sounds like a 48t crank is the way to go, esp with the low quality derailleur I have on the bike.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 06, 2017 3:43 pm

That's cool... just so you know, the bosch batteries are in fact panasonic (or sanyo, same company)... just they are of the newer form factor 20700... both 20700 and 21700's are the new form factor that are becoming more and more popular (I believe Tesla is basically hording almost all the 21700's for their new model 3 if I'm not mistaken... but eventually they should have what they need, and you'll see more people using them). The huge benefit of both the 20700/21700's is that the small increase in size is generally entirely utilized for additional storage (given the ones I'm using are geared more for the high amps, the Panasonic/Sanyo 20700A... it's got a solid 30A continious capability per cell, but only 3,100 mAh... which still ain't bad at all.. but the Sanyo 20700B's are only 15A, but have 4,000mAh I believe... and again, 15A isn't bad either). When you look at those numbers, compared to the minor increase in size, they are pretty killer cells. And like I said, at the price I'm getting them at, it's only $5.25 each shipped... and again, I'm actually making use of other parts included in the packs, so it's even better for me.

But $4.5 is probably a great price (I suppose depending on what model 18650, I forget their exact models, but I believe their highest capacity 18650 is 3,400mAh which is pretty damn good.. tho I think the amps are pretty damn low on those, but a big enough pack with enough parallel cells can solve that problem), and if you're not able to benefit from the "prepacked" batteries like I am... getting clean individual cells definitely has it's benefits. I'm still stocking up on these bosch battery packs, the price is just too good IMO, and I'm a big fan of their plastic holder... and the 30A continuous per a cell is just incredible.. especially when you're trying to make 3K watts without weighing a ton. Also, aside from sourcing these cells from bosch battery packs, I've had a lot of trouble finding them elsewhere... usually for $10 or more a cell (before shipping) and more often than not, out of stock. And the icing on the cake is that these bosch battery packs are a very new product, so unlike sourcing 18650's from ancient laptop battery packs, I know these are fresh, and as good as new.

But, one of these days I'm going to find a good deal on some solid 18650s that I won't be able to say no to, haha... got enough supplies to build quite a lot of battery packs.. so gonna have to find more reasons to, haha.

As far as controller, I'm using the stock 40a Bluetooth controller (though I made some improvements to it)... seems like people really recommend the stock controllers for these motors... and A LOT of people here really hate on Kelly controllers (which was my original plan). I personally have no clue if Kelly controllers are good/bad.... but I figure, start with the stock one, and can always get something better later if need to. Though, I did get the bluetooth version... BUT to be perfectly honest... if I were to make the purchase again, chances are I wouldn't get the bluetooth one. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, just since I got a cycle analyst, I'm wondering if I will ever make any use of any of the bluetooth features (not even sure what half of them are)... and it's just 1 more messy set of wires coming out of the controller (but like I said, I made quite a few mods to my controller... one of them was removing more than half the wires/connectors... since I was never going to use them... and I prefer getting rid of them completely over having them hang unattached). Ironically, the 1 controller mod I did not do (yet) is the shunt mod... and since it;s only a 40a controller... might have been a good idea... but I may go back and do it at some point (but spent enough time fiddling with my controller, and just cleaned up the original thermal compound, and replaced it with my own, so not trying to take it apart again right now).

Considering we were talking about batteries, if by any chance you were actually asking what Battery Management System (BMS) I am going to use.... I ended up ordering some pretty high end ones from bestechpower. TBH, was quite the PITA, and not exactly cheap (plus got more than I needed/spent more than I intended. But I could not find any other BMS that could handle a 20s battery that was highly recommended. Seemed like the only other options were to gamble on a unknoiwn, no name, chinese controller... or go without a BMS... and for this build, I didn't like either of those options. I've heard very good things about bestechpower's BMS, especially the one I got (tho it's usually always mentioned as nice than you really need... but I figured I might as well). The biggest issue is was that you can't jsut go on bestechpower's website (or for that matter, any website that I'm aware of) and just order a BMS... they don't generally sell directly to the public... hence it being quite the ordeal (and also why I bought more than I needed at this time). BUT one of the biggest arguments "against" BMS', is that if you don't/can't trust yours, it can lead to bad things... so I made sure I got one that I am confident in.

BTW, I am very jealous of your access tio a machine shop... I would kill to have 1/2 of a 1 car garage to use... let alone a machine shop... just the garage would be truly amazing even. I'm in a studio apartment (given a VERY large studio for this area)... but none the less... not somewhere I can really be using an angle or bench grinder, etc. I think I might bring my cordless angle grinder up to the roof and try to make something happen there. Here's a link to the page in this thread that shows 2 different ways of upgrading the stock mounts: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1183884 and here's a link to a post that links to most of the popular mounting bracket mods: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ki ... g-brackets

If you end up making a really good one, and are interested in making a second... I'd totally be willing to pay, haha (or possibly make some form of a trade if that was more appealing)

Also, if you're confident in making a good mount... I'd definitely recommend leaning towards choosing sickbikeparts for where to buy the kit. Of course, make your own decision... but I can pretty much promise a few more people will chime in recommending them (also if you read back a few pages, you'll see some of the recommendations). Again, I personally don't have anything against Luna... I just had a very good experience dealing with SBP... and from what other have said, if something was wrong with your kit, you'll have a much easier/quicker time dealing with SBP to get it resolved (I have no doubt luna would resolve it too... just I would be it would take longer, and be more painful)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Nov 06, 2017 3:52 pm

$4.5 whether its usd or cdn, aus, kiwi is expensive. Are those 3.5Ah cans? If so makes sense then. Only if space is a concern. 3.0Ah cans are much cheaper, like $3.00 cdn/aus/kiwi = $2.40usd and you do not lose much space, depending on your battery can layout, an extra row (in parallel) of 18650.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 07, 2017 6:17 am

markz, would be great if you could share recommended suppliers that have good prices on them. While I really love thise 20700's I'm using, I still wouldn;t mind getting some cheaper (but still quality) cells to build some other packs (gonna need at least 1 large pack for longer distance rides... tho still considering using the 20700s for that in this case... but none the less, eventually I'm gonna want some cheaper 18650s)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Nov 07, 2017 4:53 pm

Anyone using a single BMX freewheel in the rear with their cyclone?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 07, 2017 5:24 pm

ebike11, I'm going to be using a single speed mountain bike freewheel with a 26" wheel... not a BMX, but close.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Nov 07, 2017 6:55 pm

progrock wrote:ebike11, I'm going to be using a single speed mountain bike freewheel with a 26" wheel... not a BMX, but close.
May i ask what brand type of freewheel?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Nov 07, 2017 8:12 pm

At 32.8V I was crawling, seemed like 5kph, but it got me home. Im gunna throw an extra 5S into the mix for 15S, 62V total. Its been a few months now on only 1 speed 12T -> 44T

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 08, 2017 5:01 am

ebike, chris king iso (it's a beauty, though a little old.... but it came on the bike when I bought it... can't say I would be willing to spend the money on this bike when it was new, I think the front and rear hubs combined cost more than any bike I had previously bought, and those are not the only expensive parts on this thing)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Jasonafriedman » Nov 09, 2017 12:59 am

Just bought the kit for my fatbike from Luna. Using 9 6s lipos (66.6v), isis bottom bracket and cranks, and 44-48-26 triple chainring. Decided on the Bluetooth controller, didn't want too much clutter on the handlebars. No e brake cutoff either. I will be programming a Arduino to do fun things with some lights and possibly keep an eye on my lipos. I will link the build thread when I get started. Looking forward to it.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by hypertoric_amplituhedron » Nov 09, 2017 10:15 pm

All right, just to make sure, the best freewheel upgrades I can do to the cyclone 3000 kit are:

1. 14T motor fw : http://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor ... -duty-14t/

2. Ultra HD crank fw : http://sickbikeparts.com/front-freewhee ... eavy-duty/

Sound about right?
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 10, 2017 4:50 am

hypertronic... that's what I need... kinda pricey (at least the crank side freewheel), BUT that one is made by White Industries (and dual bearing)... and I had to take off my White Industries "The ENO" crankset to install this motor... so it just felt right, they definitely make some solid stuff.

On a side note, already got my upgraded stock mount from Cyclone TW... definitely fast turnaround, ordered it about a week ago, no complaints there.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by CobraJet » Nov 10, 2017 6:44 am

Why would you need two freewheels?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by hypertoric_amplituhedron » Nov 10, 2017 10:21 am

Yes, but $120 for a made in the USA, replace it once and never again item is what its all about! I dont want a failure at 1am on some bike trail in Orlando. Already been there.

Cobrajet, the system uses two freewheels. One on the motor output shaft ( after planetary reduction), and another that threads the double chainring onto the right crank arm.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 10, 2017 11:49 am

I went for the mid range $80 from sbp, with no complaints. I kept the trashed stock one to show someone if they argue the fact that it’s worth it to upgrade. I 3d printed a cover for the crank freewheel also, mentioned in previous posts, with pictures. Still have the stock motor one though. One incident on a ride where it would just spin and not transfer power. Fixed itself pedaling back and its worked fine for the last year and a haif. A new one is on hand as it’s sure to go at some point, the motor freewheel I’m referring to.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 10, 2017 2:17 pm

Skaiwerd, I would have went with that one as well, but I prefer the idea of dual bearings. Pretty unrelated, but I've built a number of custom 3D printers.. and have been using Ballscrews in them (usually just for the Z axis, though working on one that may use them for all 3), and if you ever look into ballscrew mounting, you generally have what they call as a fixed side and a supported side. The "fixed" includes at least dual angular contact ball/needle bearings.. the supported is more or less your average ball bearing (ie. something like a 608ZZ... well for your cheap chinese C7 supports... when you get to the expensive C5 or under precision, it's a much more precise bearing, but still same idea). My point being... been learning quite a bit about this stuff, and when it came to a freewheel that can have forces from the rider and a 3000w motor... I figured a dual bearing was a good idea. Of course, white industries makes some really quality stuff, and I doubt you'll have any issues at all (especially considering many are running the stock freewheel, that's a joke in comparison). As for the motor's freewheel... it was not much more expensive (especially as an upgrade), so I figured, if I'm getting the very expensive UHD freewheel, I can spend a few more bucks and get the upgraded motor one. Again, I figure it can't hurt, that's for sure, and likely a good idea.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by RageNR » Nov 10, 2017 4:14 pm

Greetings Gents, it's been a while. Good to see this thread still ticking along.

Quick question. Has anyone added a fan to their stock Cyclone 3k controller yet?

I've been searching for a few weeks, but have not been able to find anything via search.
My controller is the SaiKeLong 400 (YKZ6040), and I have been trying to determine where I can borrow (read: steal) 5v power for my 50mm fan. Only need 150mA, but those 4 data pads just behind the two big caps on the end of the board draw power through the controller chip.
I was afraid to put 150mA load on the 5v data pin in fear that it might kill the chip. OR... cause the chip to not have sufficient power under heavy load, keeping the controller from opening the FETs, and blowing the board into next week.

I ended up connecting to the 2nd available pad where the red 5v wire for the throttle connects (pad is labeled: 4.3A). Hoping this does not cause an issue with throttle input.
Experience anyone?

Edit: Just got finished putting the controller back together. Not enough power from the (4.3A) pad to kick the fan over. She just twitches on power up. Same symptoms as when testing the 5v pin on the data connection by the 2 caps.
Think a 5v 500uF cap in series with the positive fan lead would give it enough kick to run?
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Nov 11, 2017 2:03 am

Usually for these controllers there's to-92 case voltage regulator which is capable of putting out up to 100mA.
Technically it is possible to replace it with to-220 one which are usually capable 1-1,5A with cooling.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Nov 11, 2017 5:14 am

What's the specs on the SaiKeLong 400?

I've been looking into upgraded controllers, I wanna get one that'll work good with the cyclone, and support a 24S battery pack. Anyone have any recommendations?

I'm also willing to upgrade the controller myself (upgrade fets, caps, etc)... but would still like a solid base, and again, def needs to support at least a 24s (though I probably won't go higher, if I were to it would be maybe 25s... so really just concerned with it supporting a 24s)

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