new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
elementary
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by elementary » Dec 03, 2017 8:54 am

Copy the bracket in my picture shown a few post back. It is for a fat bike. In my opinion, the key to a solid installation is the extra flat piece bolted to the left side of the motor. The extra threaded rod also helps but less so than that thin flat with 4 bolts and the 2 little spacers. Doesn't look like much but it works

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Dec 04, 2017 2:08 pm

Has anyone tried using the Cyclone controller with a direct drive motor?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Dec 04, 2017 2:16 pm

markz wrote:
Dec 04, 2017 2:08 pm
Has anyone tried using the Cyclone controller with a direct drive motor?
The one we use on our pedicabs (22A continuous) is just a normal generic controller, and so was the full power version we used when prototyping. I think they'll work on any BLDC motor with Hall sensors. That said, I haven't hooked one up to a hub motor to find out for sure.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Dec 04, 2017 3:44 pm

Current voltage is 52-61V range 15S is too fast (on my 4T mxus 3kw), and it eats wh/km on high throttle. Resoldering pack to 42V 10S will give me 50% more range and slow me down :twisted:

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Dec 07, 2017 1:28 am

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 02, 2017 11:47 pm
Does anyone know the "Rshunt value" of the stock 3000w controller from cyclone is? I need to enter this information into the Cycle Analyst set up menu. Im using the Grin external shunt with Cycle Analyst plug in between the controller and battery. Thx
Anyone know this? Or if not..what should i enter in the Cycle analyst menu for shunt value?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by elementary » Dec 07, 2017 9:00 am

CA value... 3000 shunts can be modified

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Dec 07, 2017 5:45 pm

elementary wrote:
Dec 07, 2017 9:00 am
CA value... 3000 shunts can be modified
Sorry I dont understand what you mean

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm

y markz » Dec 04, 2017 2:08 pm

Has anyone tried using the Cyclone controller with a direct drive motor?
Hi Markz,

yes, some time ago I did use the OEM 40 amp Cyclone controller with a 9C 1000 watt @ 48v hub motor as these controllers are quite cheap and reliable. There was one minor quirk of which I have forgotten, but it was resolvable. I may have posted something on this thread site about a year & half ago regarding the use of the controller for that purpose.

Here is a photo of that adaption:
mod IMG_6522.jpg
mod IMG_6522.jpg (180.96 KiB) Viewed 1252 times

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GIGATT » Dec 15, 2017 11:23 pm

Good call, I think I like this reverse trike add on.

http://trego-trolley.com/fun-to-ride/

gman1971 wrote:
Oct 06, 2017 4:01 pm
No need for paypal money man, but thanks for the thought.

Do the Robocam motor mount mod, (explained in this thread) its easy to do and should get the motor to hold a lot of power without flexing.

If you want to make a trike out a bicycle you can use something like this:
http://www.bicycledesigner.com/trike-pa ... n-kit.html

There are lots of things like that all over the place for much cheaper, just look for "bicycle to trike conversion kit"

G.
GIGATT wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
ebike11 wrote:@ Gman...are u using any special higher quality chain tensioner or just cyclone stock ones?

Stock cyclone tensioner on all my EVs. If your chain is coming off you might be having the motor mount flex and cause the chain derails.

G.



BINGO... I think that's it... (I feel like I owe u PayPal money).

I forgot to reinforce my motor mount once everything else was working. Too much fun distracted me.

I have a trailer so it's normally 3 wheels but if I get jiggy with it and add training wheels, that would make 5, if they count...

I got the speed wobbles today... pulling a high center of gravity trailer with 24 lbs of water and 24 lbs of batteries..bananas Bread etc.

(I calculated that I would get the wobbles .. I'm not THAT dumb)

The wobbles are fun when one does not crash. ... I didn't crash I assume training wheels would have helped. I ALWAYS wanted a trike since I knew they existed. But would rather save money, space, hop curbs and look extra interesting with training wheels.. oh and plus my two stroke is still attatched so I might hook that up.

SMH

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Dec 16, 2017 1:57 pm

How many battery amps are you guys running? Running 20S and I'm having trouble getting more than high 50s out of a setup good for 100+ with another motor. Shunt resistance is correct, not LVC, pack is tested. It's sensorless and the motor spins great with no cutting out, it just refuses to max out my controller settings! Weird stuff...

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Dec 16, 2017 3:50 pm

74V times 55+ amps is at least 4kW. That's about 3kW mechanical output, which is what the motor is rated for.

Do you want to find out how much it takes to break it, or what?
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Dec 16, 2017 6:20 pm

Yeah, definitely. I've already fried one of these. They'll take 6kw intermittently with ease. That was on 120v but same current limit which is extremely perplexing. Limit for cruising reasonable distances in decent weather without frying the thing is maybe 80Wh / mile.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Dec 16, 2017 6:25 pm

I put these motors in the hands of technically ignorant and personally irresponsible pedicabbers riding sometimes rented trikes. So I run them at 36V and 22A. None of them have been cooked yet!
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Dec 24, 2017 8:00 am

Hi guys..im also running a 3000w motor with my Cycle Analyst V3.
I am using the magnet on the spoke and pickup sensor/cable from the CA3 for the speedometer.
What is the # of poles are you guys setting your CA to? Stock firmware has it set at 23 poles but the speedometer doesnt work...stuck at 0.
Thanks

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Dec 24, 2017 10:05 am

I finally got my clone all setup, with a cycle analyst v3 and a 20s battery. But, when I turn the bike on, and hit the throttle, the motor just grinds, and barely moves(pretty much just shakes a little). My first guess is that the phase wires are not connected in the right order (I replaced the connectors, but I matched the 3 colors to themselves, so seems odd that they would be wrong... it's just the way the motor sounds you would think it's out of phase).

Is there any way to figure out the correct phase order (ignoring the wire colors)... just to confirm that they are right?

I know this is rather vague, so not much to go by, but any advice would be nice. Aside from obvious mistakes, which I have not seen, I'm not sure what else to look for to diagnose the problem better. I suppose I could try changing the order of the phase wires... but guessing that may not be the best idea.... tho considering how it sounds, not sure how bad it could be in comparison (of course I've only tapped the throttle about 4 times now, twice on separate occasions for a split second... hopefully haven't done any further damage there)

EDIT:

I just realized that on the main motor connector, the 3 hall sensor wires did not match up... well yellow did, but blue and green did not match between the motor and the controller (kinda strange, these 2 connectors are ones I did not mess with/change at all)... anyway, I just rotated the blue and green wires on the controller side... then tested, giving just a little throttle... the motor moves a few degrees on the first try, and made pretty much no noise, and didn't move at all after that. The grinding is gone.. but considering there's no motion at all.. I don't know if that's any better. I still think it's strange they were out of order... but not sure if things are better or worse now... the grinding sound being gone at least sounds better... but before it at least seemed like it was trying to move, now it essentially feels like it's doing nothing.

EDIT2:

I just remembered, when I was mapping out all the wires and connection points inside my stock bluetooth controller, there was something odd about the phase wires and the hall sensor wires. This is how they came stock:

Phase wires
Green: A
Yellow: B
Blue: C

Main Motor Connector's Hall sensor wires:
Yellow: #8 - HA
Blue: #10 - HC
Green: #9 - HB

I would have expected the Phase color/letter to match up with the Hall sensor color/letter. ALSO, since my connector on the motor side is ordered Yellow, Green, Blue.... which if I switch green and blue around on the controller to match, then the controller's Hall sensor's would be in order, A, B C (that may mean nothing at all... but seems to make some sense).

Going on the assumption that the motor has the correct wires/colors (prob not the best assumption I suppose... but figured it was one possibility to try)... I connected the motor's Yellow sensor wire (hopefully Phase B) to Green(HB), the motor's Green sensor wire to Yellow(HA) and the motor's Blue to blue (HC).... With those connections the motor is back to making a grinding sound.... so 2 different orders of sensor wires are giving grinding sounds/shaking (like it's trying to move).... and 1 with no sound (and pretty much no motion, just kinda moves a degree or so on the first hit of the throttle, then not at all).

Anyway, still have that gut feeling that it's something to do with the phase... and the fact that the labels/colors don't match up inside the controller (with regards to the phase wires and the hall sensors).... AND the colors of the sensor wires didn't match on the motor to controller connection.... seems like I might be on the right track. Of course... there might be more wrong than just this... but I wanna work through the most probably possibilities first...

Any advice would be great. Sadly the current Phase connectors are soldered in place.... so I haven;t tried rotating them around.... but I might have to soon... but also wanna make sure I have the right sensor wires connected for each phase... I can only assume that on the controller side the Phase marked A should be with the sensor marked HA, and so on (tho the colors def don't match up then). On top of that.. I don't know for sure if the Motor's wire colors match up either.. and not sure how I could confirm that....is there a way to test with a multimeter, or something?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Dec 24, 2017 5:59 pm

Well, I figured it out. So, the sensor wires were actually correct from the start.... the green and blues are switched between the controller and the motor.... but apparently that is OK... BUT based on the sensor wires, and their connections on the main board.... I decided to switch the Green and Yellow Phase wires with each other.... which seems to have worked perfectly. Next up will be figurinmg out if I jumped the correct 3 speed wires (I actually removed the 3 speed connector entirely, and jumped it on the board... hopefully I got it right.. if not I'll be running in slow mode temporarily. I figure if I ride it for a day or two, then switch... it should be easy enough to figure out whether I'm in high speed or low speed mode then). I'm just glad I figured out the correct phase wires... ended up rigging up a male and female MT60 connector (what I used for the phase wires) to 3 XT150 connectors on each, so I could easily rotate the wires and figure out which is correct (would have used XT150 originally, but the wires were a little thin for them,... probably gonna order some 8-10 gauge 3 color wire to replace them sooner or later).

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Dec 24, 2017 10:50 pm

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 24, 2017 8:00 am
Hi guys..im also running a 3000w motor with my Cycle Analyst V3.
I am using the magnet on the spoke and pickup sensor/cable from the CA3 for the speedometer.
What is the # of poles are you guys setting your CA to? Stock firmware has it set at 23 poles but the speedometer doesnt work...stuck at 0.
Thanks

If your CA v3 is the speedo sensing version, which it sounds like it is, you need to set tire diameter not # poles to see speed. # poles is totally irrelevant cuz you're not getting your speed reading from the motor. I don't think I even set up # poles on mine.

Also it should probably work out of the box as I think it has a speed setting by default. So check that your pickup is close enough to the magnet.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Dec 29, 2017 1:34 am

Ok, looks like shit might still be messed up on my motor. Now with the green and yellow phase wires rotated between the controller/motor....when I hit the throttle, the motor goes forward like you would expect.... BUT it only does about 1-2 rotations, then it stops when I hit and hold the throttle. Then when I repeat hitting the throttle it'll move forward a bit a couple of times, until it hits a certain point where it no longer moves (seems like it's at some kind of balanced point... Where I have to move the motors position slightly to get it to move again).

Either way, the best I get is at most 2 rotations of the motor. Clearly something is still definitely wrong. It's better than before... Where it either made a grinding sound and barely moved, or didn't move at all. Presumably something is still wrong with the phase wires or phase sensors.... Anyone have any recommendations beyond blindly trying different orders of the phase and phase hall sensor wires?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Dec 29, 2017 3:59 am

Wow... I think I just got really lucky. After rotating my phase wires 2 times, I suddenly had the motor running in reverse, but seemingly with full power. The wiring for that was:

Controller's Blue to Motor's Green, Controller's Green to Motor's Blue, and Controller's Yellow to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... and with the hall sensor wires the way they came stock, where the controller's green went to the motor's blue, and the controller's blue to the motor's green.

Some what odd, considering I just read in this post, that my last setup with the green and yellow phase wires on the controller should be connected to the yellow and green motor phase respectively (as in not matching between the controller and motor): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kn ... he-cyclone

BUT, since I had it working in reverse... there was a small note at the bottom of the above post, that said to "Swap the Blue and Yellow Phase wires, and the Blue and Green sensor wires to run in reverse"..... Since I had reverse (though not with the wiring that this would make you expect.... I simply took what I had, and swapped the Blue and Yellow, and the green/blue sensor wires.... which now made my 3 sensor wires match colors between controller/motor.... BUT my phase wires are now "Controller's Blue, to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... Controller's Green to Motor's Blue.... Controller's Yellow to Motor's Green".... THIS finally appears to work in the correct direction AND doesn't cut out after 2 rotations... seems like it actually just works correctly.

Can anyone make any sense out of this wiring at all, why this current wiring works correctly, but the "stock" wiring does not..... I suppose it has to make sense somewhere. I don't know if this info will help, or just confuse things more... but the controller's board had the Phase wire's labeled: Green "A", Yellow "B", Blue "C"..... BUT the sensor wires Yellow "HA", Green "HB", Blue "HC".... which made sense with the previous wiring.. BUT, the previous wiring jsut rotated 0-2 times before stopping when I hit the throttle... far from correct.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Dec 29, 2017 8:17 pm

Finally got it all running good it seems, pretty damn fast too.

I managed to build a pretty nice battery. I took one of these 36v cases: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 97036.html

I got the 36v version because I was building a 20s battery... and simply hooked up the "36v" LED voltage display (just 4 LEDs red/green) to half the battery pack... figuring that should provide the correct display of the battery's charge state. After about 30 attempts I finally managed to fit 40 x Sanyo 20700A batteries (30A a cell, 20s2p configuration) WITH a Bestechpower HCX-D131 BMS (measuring 120mm x 80mm x 20mm.... a rather large BMS for this case... in fact was almost impossible to get it all to fit, nearly gave up and was just gonna use small balancing boards instead of a full BMS.... but after enough attempts I just barely made it all fit). I designed and 3D printed a structure to hold the batteries and BMS with just enough space to wire and close the battery case... significantly harder than I was expecting. While it wouldn't have been my first choice for a charging connection, I decided to use the stock 3 pin XLR built into the Battery case for charging. BUT, since I was running the case at twice the intended voltage... and at a relatively large Amperage (roughly 30-50A... topping off at 60A... I DID NOT use the stock discharge connection (which is built into the case where it slides onto the Base with a slide in connector, and the base is wired to the controller). I also managed to design and 3D print custom pieces to replace both male and female sides of the discharge connector (again after many tries), these utilize XT90 connectors, but the two pieces still slide together and function exactly like the original connectors did... just should handle the power I am trying to run through it. This custom discharge connector, while taking many tries... ended up working out extremely well, I am very happy with it. The case did require quite a bit of modification to fit the batteries and the BMS, I removed about 1/4 - 1/2 of the internal structure of the battery case, and like I said, took a TON of iterations to get it all together and functioning. BUT with the battery holder's structure and everything else, I'm hoping the support removed has been accounted for by enough to keep everything together and stable.

I'll post some pictures in a little while, and will also post the 3D models (both STL and fusion360 models that could be modified to account for different batteries and/or BMS sizes/quantity) if anyone is interested in trying to build a similar battery with this case.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Jan 01, 2018 2:07 am

Ugh, back to having some issues.... everything seems alright at first, but after a short period of riding, I keep running into problems. After getting up to speed a couple of times, the motor stops spinning when I hit the throttle. While riding, I don't hear/see any obvious issues... but when testing at home, with the bike on a stand, things seem better... except seemingly randomly instead of the motor spinning, it just squeals a little bit when I hit the throttle. I'm assuming this is happening while I ride as well, but when riding I did not hear the motor squealing when it wasn't working.... BUT that was likely due to ambient noises drowning the noise out, not that it wasn't actually happening. It's somewhat sporadic... tho far from occasional, generally only takes a couple of blocks, if not less, before the throttle is randomly cut out. It seems to happen at all speeds, and it doesn't take long before the motor doesn't want to do anything more than a short push, or almost nothing at all at times. While testing at home, it seems better, till it just "randomly" stops and sequels... and I have to rotate the engine a tiny bit before it wants to work again.

I say "randomly"... but I'm guessing it's not actually random, I just haven't figured out what exactly is happening when it doesn't work. I will say, the motor's chain is rather tight (but with the mount, the chain was either very tight, or when I added 2 links, WAY too loose to work at all, even with the tensioner setup as best I could, I tried nearly a dozen times before concluding there was no way the chain would work without removing those 2 links. BUT, while it's quite tight, I'm not getting the feeling that it's the issue... I think it's likely at close to a perfect tension for a high power motor... but just wanted to mention it. Also, when the motor is not spinning when I hit the throttle, and making the squealing noise, It doesn't feel like it jammed (though not entirely impossible)... but seems like it may be more internal to the motor. Is it possible that the phase/sensor wires could still not be correct?.... it just seems like it works enough that I would think they have to be correct... BUT I could be wrong. But seeing how it can get up to a decent speed, and has a good amount of torque... I would think they would have to be correct (especially when comparing to the previous setups I had that were entirely unusable). I was hoping it was a loose wire or something... but I haven't found anything to confirm that... from my inspections, the wires at least seem to be OK.... But I'll have to keep investigating. Also, I've I've felt the different connections, wires, and battery to see if anything is heating up more than it should... but I haven't noticed anything wrong at all, with that regard.... tho it does seem like it progressively gets worse from when I start riding... I might take the cycle analyst out of the equation temporarily... my gut tells me it's not the problem... but since I don't have much of a clue what is the issue at this point... I suppose the more things I can rule out the better. I'm tempted to replace some of the sensor connectors (maybe cables too)... just to be more confident in the connections not being loose... all the "large" wires seem to have solid connections... so i may not be a bad idea to make sure the smaller wires are also good.

I wish I had more to go by, but haven't been able to figure much out this time. I have yet to figure out the exact pattern... hence me calling it random. I'm not sure what to test.... I could play around rotating the phase wires... and maybe the hall sensor wires... BUT at least right now, I don't expect to get any better results than I currently am in any other configuration. But, I really don't know what to look for other than it goes forward or not. And since all the other configurations either did absolutely nothing, or grinded/squealed and shook a little, it seems like this is likely the correct setup.... BUT, considering it's drastically different than what it was supposed to be... I'm still not 100% confident. I would likely to at least rule that out, and be sure I have the correct wiring.. at least with regards to the phase and hall sensor wires. On top of multiple multimeters, I also have a good 4 channel oscilloscope if that would help investigate the signals.... just not sure what I would be looking for in the first place... so nor sure if it would be of any help.

Anyone have any advice on what I should try?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by amberwolf » Jan 01, 2018 3:15 am

There are posts and threads about how to find the right phase/hall combination (combo).

There are theoretically 36 combinations, but most of those are duplicates of others, so what I'd recommend is going to the ES WIki and following the article there for Finding The Right Phase / Hall Combo Wiring (don't remember teh exact wording of the title). There's a thread with the same title as the article in the Motor Technology section, probably listed in the Sticky Index.

Until you're *sure* you have the right combination, I wouldn't recommend running the system under load, because you can overheat the motor and / or the controller, potentially burning out windings, damaging hall sensors, blowing FETs, etc. Then you end up with all sorts of possible problems, many of which have similar symptoms to each other, making it much harder to quickly narrow down which one(s) are there, and fixing them.

When you have the right combo, a system will not take but a couple of amps (typically) to run unloaded (off ground) at full throttle in the rotation direction you want.

If it takes a lot more, or it always runs rough, regardless of what wiring combo, you have a problem in the motor or controller or both, and you'll have to individually test each one to see if they're working.

http://ebikes.ca has troubleshooting info in teh Learn tab across the top of their site, that will help you test each of the parts that might be damaged, if you can't get it to run correctly with any combo.

You'll also want to disconnect anything other than the CA's shunt, so it is only *measuring* things, and is not *controlling* anything or *limiting* anything. That way you can be sure your problems are not caused by a wrong setting there.

Once the motor and controller and battery are known to be working correctly, *then* you can hook up and setup the CAv3. I'd recommend going to http://ebikes.ca and the CAv3 pages, then to the section about Teklektik's UUG, download the guide as linked there, and follow *all* steps from the very beginning to the very end to be sure you setup everything in the CA to match your usage and needs.

If you don't go thru all the settings, you may leave something (even something you don't use) set in a way that interferes with other things you do use, because a number of the settings interact with each other.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Jan 01, 2018 7:46 am

Thanks for the response... I will search for the thread... the one I had previously found (which sounds like it may have been the one), at least at the time did not make sense for my situation... it involved more than just 3 phase wires and 3 hall sensors.. I forget exactly what it had said, but I will do my best to find the thread you speak of and follow it step by step.

I will have to check what the amps are currently when running the motor.... hopefully nothing has broken in the couple of test rides I have done.... OR, if anything ends up being broken, I'm praying it's the FETs in the controller, I have LOTs of good/better ones than the stock ones to replace them if that is the case (tho at least right now I don't think it is). I'm just very surprised IF the phase/sensor wires are not currently correct... considering how much it does currently work... I would not expect it to work as much as it does with an incorrect setup... BUT I could totally be wrong... maybe it is like a 6 cylinder engine misfiring on 2 cylinders.... if you're not used to the power the engine SHOULD have, the remaining 4 could feel like it's running well enough (given, that would at least be more obvious to me... I'm not exactly sure how an electric motor would compare).... BUT if the motor is running in the right direction, and unlike the previous attempts, somewhat close to what I would expect from the motor at times... with 3 phase wires, if 1 was wrong, then really 2 are wrong... and with the sensor wires, same thing... if 1 was wrong, actually 2 are.... in both cases, I wouldn't expect anything close to running correctly... which it sorta does.... tho that's with regards to just the wiring. I suppose something could be wrong internally as well (which I am hoping not... or at least hoping its the controller, and something I can fix, like the FETs).

BTW, the Cycle Analyst does not have it's own shunt... I wired in the CA connector myself, and wired across the controller's shunt. I also calculated the current Resistance of the controller's shunt for calibration. BUT, for the time being, I think I will simply not use it (unless I am testing something that would require information from it... IE. if I want to see the amps in real time, etc.) But as far as getting things working correctly... I will attempt to do that without the Cycle Analyst first... if I succeed, then I can bring the CA back into the equation... presumably, if I get that far, it shouldn't be that hard.

I'm also tempted to replace some of the smaller wire connectors... the main 7 pin connector on the motor/controller... though I might wait. The main benefit to the current stock connector is that I can relatively easily rotate wires (IE. the hall sensor wires)... BUT there is a chance that the "random" issues could be caused by an unstable connection... so once I am confident the wires are all matched up correctly, I will likely replace the connectors with something that will guarantee a solid connection... I have plenty of good connectors that can accomplish this (tho pretty much all the ones I am thinking of require soldering, hence me leaving the current ones temporarily).

I guess I will start with these Phase and hall sensor wires... I'll find the thread/howto you mentioned and follow it. Once I get that out of the way, I can start working on seeing if there are other potential problems, as well as preventing any new ones from showing up as best I can. Thanks for the help... hopefully I can at least get closer to finding out the real problem, and provide a better description here to see if anyone can help further.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Jan 01, 2018 8:41 am

OK, wow... so from a quick test of the 6 possible phase connections (while leaving my sensor wires in place... which actually has the blue/green on the controller rotated... which makes the 3 colors actually match between controller/motor). As I mentioned, I previously found matching controller's phase A (green) to motor's blue, phase B (Yellow) to motor's green, and phase C (blue) to motor's yellow seemed like it worked. At least from my past tests, it was by far the best... went forwards and didn't cut out instantly, and at least seemed to work correctly. Apparently I should have continued testing. This time, testing all 6 possibilities, from a no load test, with sensors as they are, it at least seem like I may have found a better (hopefully the correct) combo:

Controller's Phase A (green) to motor's yellow, B (yellow) to motor's blue, and C (blue) to motor's green.

Sadly due to the time, and apartment neighbors, I am only tapping the throttle repeatedly (when it works, and goes forward)... With the previous setup that "sorta" worked... roughly 15% of the throttle jerks failed (and when one failed, the motor's position need to be adjusted slightly or they would continue to fail)... I also saw the Amps running in the 2-3A range from my light taps to the throttle (not too bad from what I'm expecting). BUT, in the new config... while not extensively tested, I tapped the throttle close to 2 dozen times and it always worked. Also, the amps were significantly lower (generally in the 0.75-1A range, less than half the previous setup's, with about the same result). Of course this needs to be tested more... BUT the results are looking better than past ones, so definitely good news. I'm surprised the previous setup worked as much as it did, I did not expect that from incorrect wiring.

Now, I'm not sure if I should continue and test the senor wire combinations further. I mean, if I wanted to be completely thorough, I'd actually test the 6 different sensor combinations with not only the current "best" setup, but with the 5 others. But I'm not sure how necessary that is.. I'm also not sure how many "CORRECT" combinations are possible. I would not be surprised if there was indeed 2-3 possible combinations of phase and sensor wiring that could work correctly, or if there is indeed only 1 completely correct setup to go forwards, and only 1 to run the motor backwards.

I suppose it might make sense to at least test the different sensor combinations with the current best phase combination, tho I'm not 100% sure of the risk. Also, considering the current tests have been 100% successful (but limited in scope), the only thing I could currently find is that other combinations are not as good, or at best equal to the current. I'm not sure if I should simply keep this setup and extend the tests until there appears to be an issue... or if it's best to test all 36 combinations to be thorough. I suppose I can start by testing the 6 sensor combinations with the current phases... if the current is only seemingly correct one, maybe hold off of the other sensor tests for now.

EDIT: BTW, I ended up keeping the Cycle Analyst in use for now, running the throttle through it... that way I could limit the Amps as well as view the current usage. I set the Amps to 9 max... I suppose that's a little higher than maybe I should be for these test, tho I haven't gone close to that since I am only lightly hitting the throttle. I suppose depending on how the tests go, will depend on what steps further I take... so far this is looking good, but trying not to jump the gun a 3rd time, and get a better confirmation that this is indeed correct wiring... and to see if any issues are still noticeable, or if things appear 100% correct after multiple, increasingly taxing tests.

progrock
100 W
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by progrock » Jan 01, 2018 1:13 pm

OK, so I got the basics working pretty damn well I believe. I took the Cycle Analyst out of the equation for the test ride... and HOLY SHIT.... this thing is a f*cking death trap. I could barely keep the front wheel on the ground... so much so that there was a number of occasions that I didn't even realize it was off the ground (and then there were the half dozen plus times that I'm amazed I didn't flip it). Needless to say, I need to get used to riding it... the only ebikes I have ridden don't even come close to a comparison as far as how this thing rides. While I'm sure I'll get a better feel for it quickly (it's also been a few months since I've done a lot of riding in general)... I'm thinking the Cycle Analyst's throttle ramping will be a very welcome feature. SADLY, I tried hooking up the CA during my ride... I had gotten through the basic setup procedure, up to setting the throttle in/out.... I'm not sure if that's the problem, or something else, but with the CA attached, and the throttle running through it, it was VERY funky, throttle cutting in and out and not working so well even when it was. I'm pretty sure I removed any limits on the thing, so not 100% sure what the problem is... BUT, should be easy enough to figure out now that I got the motor/controller working beautifully. Will likely do a few more rides like this, then tackle the CA issues.

The faces I was getting from people were hilarious... I opened the throttle almost full on the way up a pretty damn steep, and long hill.... 2 separate groups of people literally just had their jaws dropped, totally confused how I just got up the hill in a matter of seconds. Once I get comfortable on this thing, it's gonna be the death of me... hopefully not before. I'm pretty sure I do not need any gears on this bike.... was originally slightly worried I was going to need to... but after that ride, the speed I had up steep hills, let alone on level ground... I don't see any point in having them. I also gotta weigh this bike... it is incredibly light, and I'm only 155-160 lbs... I definitely hit my goal of making a powerful bike that I can easily carry up and down the stairs of my apartment building to use. I'm not sure of the weight right now, but feels close to 60lbs. The combined weight of me and the bike, compared to it's power, is just ridiculous. I'm thinking I might have gone a little overboard with this battery tho... can't wait to have the CA working correctly so see what kind of watts I'm pulling... I have a feeling this thing will easily hit 5k... tho I doubt I got up there this ride.. but damn... it's been a very long time since I had this shit scared out of me like that. I am seriously afraid of letting anyone test ride this... maybe once I have the CA working and can put it at like 1/3 power for their first ride. I'm pretty confident it's gonna be a long time before I have any thoughts of building something even more powerful... this should be enough for a while.

On a side note, I am now insanely jealous of you guys that have high power trikes with this engine... I could only imagine what that feels like, that's literally gotta be more fun than driving a Ferrari.

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