Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Dogboy1200 » Dec 20, 2015 7:53 pm

waynebergman wrote:
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Thanks guys I got it now. My settings are attached here as well. I put 2's instead of 1's for the pas 0 settings but i also changed at the same time the dessignated assist setting on the pedal assist page as I incorrectly had it set to 9 which is the number you should use for the dessignated assist setting but on the throttle page not the pedal assist page. Looks like there are two areas to set the DESIGNATED ASSIST and on the pedal assist page you need to go with "by displays command" and then on the throttle page you need to set the DESIGNATED ASSIST to the number 9.
Anyways its working well now. Big thanks to those that have contributed to the program thread and Karls site for his direction as well.

Sorry, I just noticed the photos are bad quality. I did not know how to take a screen shot on the PC I was working on so I just took a photos of the screen with my camera.

Next week I will work on the drive train for gearing it down a bit and then I look forward to hitting the trails.
You can make the throttle a little smother yet by changing on the throttle tab the end voltage to 42 instead of 35. I used a volt meter on my throttle and found that it puts out .42V at WOT so I used that number.
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waynebergman
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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 20, 2015 8:07 pm

Thanks Dogboy, yes its cool we can dial in the throttle to use its full range. I am holding off on changing these settings till I get my half twist (which is in the mail) as right now I am using a thumb lever that will get changed out for that half twist. I remember when I got my first ver3 CA how nice it was to be able to tune and utilize the full range of the twist throttle. Before the ver3 ca my throttle on my hub motors were little more than an on off switch so I am glad we are able to fine tune these little kits like this. Awesome! ME HAPPY!

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Lurkin » Dec 20, 2015 8:58 pm

Your bashplate also acts to keep water from the front wheel off, which I suspect led to the demise of my first BBS01.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 20, 2015 11:32 pm

EDIT.......I HAVE DELETED THE SCREEN SHOTS OF THE TESTING SETTINGS ENTERED ON THIS PAGE AS THINGS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER SHOWN LATER IN THIS THREAD...............FIGURED ITS TOO CONFUSING LEAVING ALL THESE SETTINGS IN THE THREAD THAT WERE NOT USED IN THE END.
Last edited by waynebergman on Jan 17, 2016 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Leebolectric » Dec 22, 2015 11:56 am

Sweet ride, digging it.
I doubt I would have tried a Orange/Green color theme...but it worked really well, very attractive.
Love your bashplate idea, thanks for the brain food. :)
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waynebergman
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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 23, 2015 7:10 pm

Thanks Leebolectric, yes the bike colours look good to me too. Normally I am a bad dresser and not too concerned with colours matching and things like that I now even have orange gloves to match. I didn't even think about it when I bought the gloves as they are actually handy mans gloves for the cold weather and a killer deal but now it looks like I am doing all this on purpose. These gloves are so bright orange with a black color on the flip side I could make them look like blinking signal lights by rotating my hands showing black then orange to the on coming traffic with my out stretched arms.

I noticed Leebolectric you were able to spin your mid drive up into your front triangle, perfect!

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 24, 2015 6:34 pm

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MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 27, 2015 9:28 pm

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I have installed the watt meter from Luna cycles. Great little unit. I have it positioned under the top tube as its not something I want to be looking at all the time. Just the odd glance to use it more as an accurate fuel gauge. It also has a read out for peak wattage pulled from the battery pack between restarts so its a cool little unit to have especially if you are not using a CA. My sprockets should arrive sometime next week and then I am good to go. Included with the shipment was the little xt-90 s connectors with pigtails so my andersons have been switched over now to these plugs and also my extra 48v pack that I will store in my back pack for extra range.

I have a question for anyone that has tinkered with the programming on these units. I thought when I changed my settings to "current" from "speed" I got smoother throttle and a I also thought the surging went away. It seems like when I apply throttle or PAS at very low speeds I can STILL GET some surging. Not sure if this is the correct term for it but it kind of throbs or somewhat smoothly toggles between rolling on the gas and then backing off on the gas more at slow speeds when first hitting the power. Has anyone experienced similar surging? Any ideas for settings that may help?

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 28, 2015 8:22 pm

I am having some difficulty getting my PAS to work with out surging or pulsing in any of my setting but 0 and 1. Settings 2 to 5 ramp up the current and this is where the jerking and pulsing starts to show its head. Attached here in this post are my settings from todays workout. I tried several (maybe 20 at least) attempts to smooth things out and being careful to only adjust one setting at a time to make sure I could tell if progress was being made. I do realize on the Pedal Assist page setting I have chosen "HD Sensor 12" which no one recommends but I was grasping at straws thinking this sounded like it was meant for our HD motors. Regardless it made no difference that I could tell so I do not think this
"HD Sensor 12" setting I chose is any part of the problem.

Right now it is working just like I would like it to in Pas 0 with throttle only and nice and smooth throttle control with no PAS active in this setting.....Awesome. Also Pas 1 , all is well with the low current setting in pas 1 there is no surging or jerking.........BUT as soon as I select Pas 2 3 4 or 5 it gets super jerky when spinning the cranks especially under loads until things get up to speed then is kind of smooths out when the motor is more in its happy zone.Under these loads at start up when it starts to pulse I can also smooth it out as soon as I stop pedaling and hit the throttle.

I can live with all of this but it would be nice to get the higher current levels to run smoothly with pedal assist if I can.

I have read all the tips on Karl's site and used his descriptions for choices I have made for the setting choices but this it proving to be difficult for me. Is there anyone than can tell me anything that may have helped with there settings choices to smooth out the Pedal Assist mode when using higher currents?

Thanks for this .........wayne
Last edited by waynebergman on Jan 17, 2016 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Dogboy1200 » Dec 29, 2015 9:31 am

Interesting. Your previous PAS settings look just like mine with the exception of wheel size. I see yours is set at 18. I used 26 which is the OD of my 26 in wheels.
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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Yes Dogboy the 18" wheel size is there from tips from Karls site. Converts miles / kilometers for your dashboard readout and gives a higher limit to speeds from what I have read.

Hey I think I have stumbled on a good tip from Karls site, text below in red from Jarkko.......
"Hi Karl!
Really REALLY good work compiling all this info on one page!!!
I have a little more info about the: Start Voltage(x100mv) -setting.
I was trying to get my throttle free play a bit smaller and lowered this setting to 9. There was still no error, but the PAS was very, very jerky especially at lower cadences. And I mean unbearable jerky. I don’t know why this happens, maybe the 5V “reference” signal is unstable and altering when motor is under heavy load or something like that.

Might be a good to know for others too, because I’ve had some minor jerking problems with other drives I’ve assembled too.

Of course this might be effective only with some other setting modifications I’ve made. If someone else could also try this out and confirm, we’d have a new little piece on information about this set.

But as I said, this page is VERY VERY good thing for all of us BBS owners. Thanks!

Jarkko


This is the only thing I have read to date that makes sense with what I am seeing with my jerking in PAS. I have my throttle set at 10 from the stock 11 so reading what Jarkko is saying I will raise this number to 12 and see if it helps. Thanks Jarkko. I guess at this point we are all learning here how one parameter may effect things you don't think it will. This setting being under the Throttle page you would think would have nothing to do with a pulsing power band in PAS.

For me removing the dead spots in the throttle is more important than smooth pas so if I end up with smooth pas but too much off a dead spot on the throttle I will choose good throttle response but looking forward to testing this out and see what happens regardless. I should get time to do this tomorrow late afternoon.

Anyone else had similar issues with surging PAS related to start voltage settings in throttle, seems crazy?

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 29, 2015 10:35 pm

Jarkko you are the man! I am so glad I stumbled on to your comments on Karl's site. I could not wait for tomorrow and gave it a whirl out in the dark tonight. I did not go far but yep, you have smoothed out the PAS on my first test.Pretty sure this was the setting that was causing me all the grief. I will comment tomorrow after further testing. I set my Start Voltage to 12 and End Voltage to 42.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Dec 30, 2015 6:44 pm

Settings for assist levels 2,4,6 & 8 are not applicable to my display so they are coloured over in red to reference not applicable. I have 5 levels of pas with level 0 being NO pas and just throttle. Pulls around MAX 1330 watts with these settings using a 52volt Luna pack.
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So settings shown above reflect where I am at and I can not see wanting to change for any reason other than lowering power levels if parts start to break. Long story short........SUPER AWESOME! Working like a charm.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 04, 2016 11:18 pm

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XT 90's plugs on both battery packs now and the 48volt pack feels actually pretty light in my back pack. I figure at over 20ah with both packs that this is further than I really want to ride in one day anyways. 95% of the rides I do, the one pack with in the frame will work nicely but it is a nice option to have the extra range with out having to lug around the extra weight I really don't need for most of the time.
I like my new charger from Luna, gives you the option for how fast and full you want to charge your pack.
Shown in the photo also is the rear sprocket I got in the mail today from Crossbreak.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 05, 2016 8:17 pm

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Making some progress today with the rear cassette. I took the rivets out of the cassette so I could remove some of the sprockets and then spaced the whole assembly outbound at least 1/4". I am going with a 4 speed, I feel its all I need and I am striving for a decent chain line on these 4 gears.

Shown in the photo here is the 42 tooth rear cog. The tires are so wide on this bike I needed to move the whole cassette assembly outbound so the chain wont rub on the tire when striving for this clean straight chain line taking into account the new more inbound location of the Luna Ring. Luna Bling ring is still in the mail but I know where it will sit in relation to the motor so the rear cassette is now in place and should line up well for the first gear to be running parallel to the center line of the frame of the bike.

I guess there are derailiers that would be better suited to running the 42 tooth rear but I am too cheap and too lazy to buy the right derailier if I can get this one to work during the testing process. I swapped out the upper jockey pulley to a smaller one (spare parts pile) and shaved off some of the gage side plates to keep the upper jockey pully from being in contact with the largest rear cog. I also hacked (Mikey Moused) in some surgical tubing to kind of spring back the derailer gage. I did max out the "B" tension adjuster but the rubber tubing was needed to pull things back far enough. At this point I just want to get it working so I can see if I really need the 1-1 gearing. If I like this super low gearing I will get a better fitting derailer for the 42 tooth rear cog.

I took it for a test ride today in the snow and the bike is super fun in the snow. These tires are amazing.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Lurkin » Jan 05, 2016 8:38 pm

waynebergman is there any chance of checking the wear on your chain periodically? I'm very curious to see how these bad boys go with eating chains/cassettes.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 05, 2016 9:34 pm

HI "Lurkin". Yes I can do that, no problem. I will put a new chain on it once I am sure about the sprockets I will go with. AS it stands now I had to patch in 8 links from an old chain to make up for the large 42 tooth rear cog. This length of old chain had more wear on it than the newer chain that came on the bike so that is not ideal to ride it with two sections of chain that have different effective lengths so I will just use this set up for finding the sweet spot for gearing, then I will buy a new chain and then record the milage on it before the new one shows wear. I am optimistic for chain life on this set up as I am going with two big sprockets for most of the riding I will do and I am light in weight at 135 lbs.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 06, 2016 6:05 pm

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Front ring arrived in the mail today. Took less than 5 minutes to instal and works really well. Shown in the photos you can see the chain line in first gear is very straight. I have only 4 gears and its perfect. I re measured the outbound spacing of the rear cassette and its closer to 3/8" from stock. Running an 8 speed chain and the outer plates of this chain is about 1 mm from touching the motor with no spacers at all used on the front ring.

Today climbing a hill I am used to doing with my other bikes, this bike geared down like this is super snappy. Does wheelies like my old mac 10t and also starts very happy from a stand still on a hill which my mac 10t would complain bitterly on. Chain is running quiet and things are looking good.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by sather » Jan 06, 2016 8:27 pm

What 4 cogs did you end up with? Are you using an indexed 8 speed derailleur and shifter? If so how do you get it to index on the 4 cogs? I have a 3000 watt Lightning Rod that eats chains for breakfast and I'm afraid my new BBSHD will do the same. This looks like a good solution because 8 speed chains are stronger than 10 speed chains.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 06, 2016 9:03 pm

"Sather", I have used 42,36,28 &24 tooth cogs. Yes for now I am using an 8 speed index shifter but I am not normally a fan of index shifting but I will go with this for now. In regards to the derailleur its just the one that came with the bike that was set up for 8 speeds. I have a fairly high end road set of FRICTION shifters I will some how work into things for shifting duties down the road. Regarding your question as to how I got the indexing to work, I just simply used the same plastic spacers between my cogs that were on my cassette and then once you get the cable slack adjusted properly you are good to go. I use from the selection on my shifter Speed 3,4,5 & 6 to shift between my four gears. So 3rd on the shifter indicator is really first gear. The cable tension adjustment makes it all work if you have the right spacers between the cogs to match your index shifters (at least this is the way I figure it) The jump from my 36 to the 42 is fairly big so I had to shave down part of the derailleur gage and also install a smaller upper jockey pulley for this to work. Maybe bit Mickey Mouse but works like a charm. I would ideally like an IGH but that will have to wait for another day. Edit... I have now swapped out my 24tooth for a 20tooth as a 4th gear....goes about 27mph top speed, plenty for me.
Last edited by waynebergman on Jan 17, 2016 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by sather » Jan 07, 2016 9:53 am

Thanks, I'm going to give it a try. One last question: Did you use a Wolftooth 42 tooth or did you find a more cost effective cog?

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 07, 2016 10:33 am

I got the cog from "Crossbreak" slightly used. He sent it to me in the mail from Germany so not sure if he originally bought it over there or not. Its hard to see any stampings on it for manufacturer info etc now that it is mounted on the bike. It looks slightly different than the photos I am seeing of the wolf cog but it may be just an earlier model of what they sell now. So sorry, I not sure who make it but it works well.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by crossbreak » Jan 07, 2016 11:35 am

hey wayne, great to see how things have worked out. got the 42T from "mirfe" from http://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/ He made these at a time when 42T where not yet commercially available.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 07, 2016 12:33 pm

The link here http://radtechnik.awiki.org/singlecrank.html shows another guys efforts in swapping in one of these rings and trying to make it all work with a deraillleur that is not really suited for the job. Same problem I had with my derailleur rubbing against the other cogs. The stuff on this site above is translated from the original German just to let you know. He goes into more detail for work arounds on getting his to happen. I just kind of took the angle grinder to the cage, spaced out the cogs and made it work with the extra tension from the rubber tubing. I am not sure how my approach will work for the long run, sometimes these hack jobs don't stand the test of time. I will update after I get some miles on it.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 07, 2016 9:12 pm

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Great ride in the snow today. My nephew and I rode the VFR trail out of Halfmoon Bay on the sunshine coast here in BC Canada. The low pressure tubeless tires are so nice to run in the snow. There wasn't tons of snow but enough to get a feel for how well these tires work. A few videos here showing the Bafang climbing in the snow. On the one video you can hear the bash guard coming in handy on a very small drop. I was surprised as to how small a drop it takes to come in contact with the motor so I am glad the bash guard was in place.

1 to 1 gearing is the way to go for hill climbing with this motor for me. Super snappy for the 1350 watts I am pulling with this set up.

This ride today was so much fun. I think back to my short journey with electric bike components I have bought over the years and the ride I did today was the experience I have been striving for but never quite achieved until today. This bike is quiet and climbs steep stuff. Amazing for the max 1350 watts I was pulling today.

With the low pressure wide tires you can sneak up on things slowly with out having to attach hills with the normal speed you would need on narrower down hill or cross country tires.
Last edited by waynebergman on Jan 23, 2016 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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