Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by pkirkll » Jan 08, 2016 12:56 am

Enjoying the thread!

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by sather » Jan 08, 2016 9:54 am

Just found this: SunRace sells two different 10 speed cassettes that go from 11 to 42 tooth. Model CS-MS3 for $58 and the Model CSMX3 for $68. I don't know if they are any good, but are much cheaper than a WolfTooth 42.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Lurkin » Jan 13, 2016 4:48 am

Hi Wayne, is there any chance of you measuring the BCD of the your original Bafang specific chainring? there is a forum member in melbourne interested in making an inexpensive chainring adapter for everyone going forward, just needs this information to get the bolt to motor pattern correct.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 13, 2016 12:07 pm

Sorry regarding the BCD numbers two issues.......
1. I dont have the tools to accuratly do this
2.I feel Eric has spent so much good time and resources to make this happen I want people to buy from him like I did.

Edit...also just to be clear, it looks like this request is for someone wanting to make there version of what Luna is doing and then sell them for cheaper. IF it was a home builder just making one for them selves I would gladly try my best to give some measurements but like I say I don't have the proper tools to even do this. I think one would need more than a caliper gauge to measure all the things needed.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 17, 2016 12:33 pm

DSCN7577.jpg
I have now swapped out my 24tooth for a 20tooth as a 4th gear....goes about 27mph top speed, plenty for me. I find its just nice to be able to pedal at a little slower cadence so this slightly taller gear 4 lets me do this when I am in cruising mode on the road. I think this issue of not being able to keep up with motor speed when the motor is in its effecency zone is the only issue I have with this system. And its not a big deal concidering how it does everything else so well. At least with HD1000 you can run the motor at lower RPM's and still not worry about heating up so you can somewhat work around this, I would imagine that the 750 watt units would be much worse with cadence issues.

For what its worth I have posted here a photo of my water proofing of the xt connectors off of the Watt meter. I am fine with the placement of this little meter under the top tube like this as I just refer to it periodically during a ride, mostly for total AH consumed and resting voltage reading as the ride progresses. I found an old inner tube fits nice and snug around each end of the little Watt meter and then I leave the open ends of the inner tube hanging down so the water runs off and will not get into or around the xt connectors. Looks a little home made but it will keep mud and water off of my connections.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 18, 2016 9:50 pm

The dog and I did one of our favourite 5 mile loops today. I wanted to do the loop super slow and with no pedalling. Just standing out of the saddle putting along in first gear climbing up the single track switch backs to the top of the climb. Its so cool to be able to climb with this bike at such slow speeds. You can come to a complete stop on a twisty section of climbing and just give it some juice and a way you go. The combination of these tires & the ONE to ONE gearing coming out of the Bafang is unbelievable for a 1300 watt system. With the 42 tooth on the front and the 42 I have on the back I can compare this to shifting taller onto my 36 tooth cog and there is a HUGE difference. I can say with certainty that ONE to ONE gearing is the way to go on this drive for technical single track or any kind of hill climbing. I was also interested in if things would heat up at all going super slow and no pedalling. Not heat up at all as far as I can tell just going by touch however (not very scientific I realize), and the AH consumed was lower than the Mac 10t I have been used to using on the same trail. I knew the AH consumption would be good as the motor was happy the whole time. ME too!

Even though I have 4 gears I feel at these power levels all you would really need is 3 gears. I run 4 just so I have a smaller jump between the three gears that makes for smoother shifting. I think I am pretty close to 150 kilometres now of trouble free trail riding.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 23, 2016 3:57 pm

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Photo shows my revised spacing of the cog set. I moved it slightly inbound to give the best chain line on second gear instead of first. This lets me run my fourth gear with a slightly improved chain line then when my first gear had the perfect line.

To my surprise when the wheel was off the bike I recounted the teeth on all cogs. Its hard to believe that a smart guy like me got 3 out of the 4 wrong. :oops: I guess trying to count the teeth with the wheel on the bike makes it harder with the chain covering part of the cassette. Also, I must have been into my evening Ciders which is surely in part to blame. Anyways I wanted to share some of my new photos here and accurate tooth count to share my genius :).

Long story short.........42-34-26-17 and the two most outbound cogs, the 12 + 13 tooth are just there to act as spacers to help tighten everything up. Top Speeds on the flat with no pedalling--20mph in first......very close to 30mph in fourth running the 17 tooth as tallest gear.

I am running on strictly Coffee now at this time of the day so I figure these numbers are correct. I figure I am getting closer to the ideal gear choices with these power levels.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by sather » Jan 24, 2016 8:23 pm

I agree. A one to one ratio is the way to go on the BBSHD with the Luna 42.
I am having issues with the Wolftooth 42, SRAM 11/36 cassette with Shimano Deore Xt long cage. I get the thing to work perfectly on a stand, ride it for a few days and it stops indexing. This is very hard on a wimpy 10 speed chain. I have had to repeatedly adjust the stupid thing.
BTW: Wolftooth does not recommend using even a 9 speed chain, only ten speed.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 24, 2016 9:36 pm

Really, do as Karl @ electric-Fatbike.com suggests and run a 3-speed IGH. The sprockets are steel, you can shift at a stop or while standing and coasting and they can be dead silent. In first gear the loudest sound is the crunching of the tires on the stones on the trail......

I had to make a custom 34t rear cog, but now you can pair a 26t Surmey-Archer cog with a Luna 30t chainwheel and climb any hill around. Use the rear dérailleur as a chain guide/tensioner and you will never have a thrown chain either.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 24, 2016 9:51 pm

If I were you I would try an el cheapo friction shifter lever. I will eventually go there but for now as my set us is all fairly new so its working well for now. I have been a firm believer in these old school shifters especially for a mid drive, they look mickey mouse and take a bit more on the fly adjustment but they work really good. You can hear when everything is happy as you are shifting with these friction set ups. Set your high low stops once a year and adjust for a bit of cable stretch now and then and you are good to go.

This is just my opinion and maybe its because I have never owned a super good quality index system, but since I have been mountain biking way back in 1985 the only thing that has worked for me trouble free is the old school friction shifters.

Glad to hear the long cage xt will work with the existing jockey pulleys for the 42 tooth. I was not so lucky with my derailleur.

I did not know the wolf sprocket was for 10 speed chain only. My 42 tooth was made by a cottage industry manufacturer and I dont know if its made for 8 speed chain or not but it seems to work well with my 8 speed chain.

I hope you get it dialed in soon Sather, its no fun listening to a chain that is not happy.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 24, 2016 9:58 pm

Yes woodlandhills that sounds like a good idea also. One thing with the config you suggest I think it would be even lower geared in first then the 42-42 with a cog set. Your second gear on the IGH is direct and then something like 33% for each gear up or down from there, I think. So you would in effect be super low geared in first and maybe 26mph top speed on the flats in 3rd gear with no pedalling or something like that. That would work for me thats for sure, Karl seems to think they will stand up also but time will tell. For me my four speed is pretty cool. I can go very close to 30mph and climb steep stuff in low gear. I would want one of these IGH if they stand the test of time, so I will be following Karls site to see how he makes out and also be looking forward to your updates on your IGH longevity.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 25, 2016 12:19 am

I am trying to stay within the spirit of the CA ebike law and keep my top speed below 20mph. With easy rolling summer tires it tops out at almost 21 by my GPS, but I am going to run a Bud/Nate combo for our rainy season so, I doubt it will go that fast again! I am very easy on equipment, IMHO, so I have every expectation that I will get acceptable mileage from the Nexus.

I find that the Sheldon Brown Gear Calc is endlessly fascinating.......

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Green Machine » Jan 25, 2016 4:51 am

Hi Wayne,

I just found this thread and I am really glad to see you have put that bike to such good use and its looking terrific.

That bike really has an interesting history....which started in the factory at bafang before anyone had the bbshd.

Your bike was initially put together by the lead engineer at bafang the one who developed the bbshd.

Anyway just dropped in to say hello and will for now on follow the progres now i know your bike thread is here :)

I really wish i would have tried to fit a shark pack in that bike before i sent it to you....if i knew it would fit i would switch packs with you....let me know if you have any way of determining.


ERIC

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by --freeride-- » Jan 25, 2016 7:52 am

What about changing some settings, so that the motor is more gentle to your cassette?
Play around with stop decay and time to stop on page 2 of the Settings. One can go to 0 and I have the other one on 6. that way the motor stops right if you stop pedaling.
You shift and start pedaling again. the gear did change befor the motor is on full power.

I would although take out some power from the PASS and use the throttle for real asseleration.

I am using 5 PASS modes from 50-400W
the throttle is set to PASS mode 7 what you can not reach via Display(if it is set to 0-5).
So i have 5 gentle PASS modes that work fine and can always use full Power via throttle :mrgreen:

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by Green Machine » Jan 25, 2016 9:12 am

yeah i would really suggest a nexus 3 speed on that bike.....

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Jan 25, 2016 12:01 pm

Yes Eric I think the 3 speed IGH will be in the cards maybe come summer time. Thanks for the kind offer on the shark pack but I really like the Dolphin packs, as there working awesome. I have that 52 volt pack very snugly in place now. For our home business we run http://www.bakerbeachbedandbreakfast.com/ and I am thinking it would be nice to offer some bikes for rent one day and maybe even do some adventure trail tours, so for something like that I would want an IGH for sure with maybe a 20 amp setting on the HD1000. This would make an easy to ride and maintain bike. That Skuma frame is pretty good quality I figure. I have searched and searched on the internet and I do not see that exact frame offered anywhere. If I do a second bike I would most likely want to use the exact frame but I am coming up empty with my search.

I will surely buy an HD kit from you Eric if the second bike comes to fruition, I could not be happier with this set up.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Feb 03, 2016 7:51 pm

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I have some quality Shimano friction shifters in the spare parts pile that I am going to put on the fat bike. These shifters are designed for road bikes meaning they would hang out the end of your bars which is fine if they are drop road style bars but no good for mountain bike bars. So to make them work on my bike I I have taken an old set of mountain bike bar ends and inserted a cut off short length of handle bar inside the bar end to let me put the shifter plug in the assembly and then instal this in place of my index shifter. I will post a pic of it installed after the epoxy dries that I am using to hold the handle bar tubing into the bar end. I also sent the whole assembly through the band saw to shorten it before placing the shifter inside the assembly.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by tomjasz » Feb 04, 2016 4:55 am

WoodlandHills wrote:Really, do as Karl @ electric-Fatbike.com suggests and run a 3-speed IGH. The sprockets are steel, you can shift at a stop or while standing and coasting and they can be dead silent. In first gear the loudest sound is the crunching of the tires on the stones on the trail......

I had to make a custom 34t rear cog, but now you can pair a 26t Surmey-Archer cog with a Luna 30t chainwheel and climb any hill around. Use the rear dérailleur as a chain guide/tensioner and you will never have a thrown chain either.
Thanks for the leads, my kit, bike and pieces and parts are all in route. I am going to likely stay one speed, even though I have a 3spd drum brake SA to use. To flat here to bother. 30t x 22t
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Feb 04, 2016 7:51 pm

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Here is the instal. These shifters are real nice. They are SLBS64's and have a super feel to them. Lots of leverage with the long levers, several micro clicks to fine tune your position so the little clicks mean you don't need so much tension on the friction adjuster. Your ears are your best help when finding the sweet spot for where to let your deraileur rest after making a shift. Once you find a quiet place it stays there and is happy. No fiddle farting around with these like on a index system that starts acting funny when cables get dirty, deraileur itself gets dirty and beat up over time and also if your deraileur hanger gets bent out on the trail you can kind of tweet things on the fly a lot easier. Not for everyone but for me this is the way to go.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Feb 13, 2016 9:09 pm

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Had a little mechanical on the trail yesterday. You can see in the photo attached how the 42 rear cog took a bit of a beating. I am not really sure how or why this happened. Under some climbing loads but not by any means super steep climbing the chain broke. I had some spare links in my repair kit so added a few links and I was OK to ride home but to my surprise when I was putting the repaired chain back onto the rear cassette I noticed the wonky ring. Both the bent cog and the broken chain must have happened at the same instant. I have straightened the cog out now with some time tweeking it in a vise but my guess is now that it has been once bent so badly it weaker in strength than it was. Looking closely at this cog it has nicely made but more consideration for weight than strength. I will ride it as is for now and hope for the best. Maybe for its 1,000 mile birthday I will spring for one of the Luna Might Min 30 tooth rings and a Sturmey 3 speed IGH.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by gman1971 » Feb 14, 2016 4:34 am

sather wrote:I agree. A one to one ratio is the way to go on the BBSHD with the Luna 42.
I am having issues with the Wolftooth 42, SRAM 11/36 cassette with Shimano Deore Xt long cage. I get the thing to work perfectly on a stand, ride it for a few days and it stops indexing. This is very hard on a wimpy 10 speed chain. I have had to repeatedly adjust the stupid thing.
BTW: Wolftooth does not recommend using even a 9 speed chain, only ten speed.
Hard on the wimpy 10spd chain?, is it worn out already? How many miles? What wattage? Maybe you should look into a new deraillerur.

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A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by gman1971 » Feb 14, 2016 4:49 am

waynebergman wrote:
DSCN7740 (2).jpg
Had a little mechanical on the trail yesterday. You can see in the photo attached how the 42 rear cog took a bit of a beating. I am not really sure how or why this happened. Under some climbing loads but not by any means super steep climbing the chain broke. I had some spare links in my repair kit so added a few links and I was OK to ride home but to my surprise when I was putting the repaired chain back onto the rear cassette I noticed the wonky ring. Both the bent cog and the broken chain must have happened at the same instant. I have straightened the cog out now with some time tweeking it in a vise but my guess is now that it has been once bent so badly it weaker in strength than it was. Looking closely at this cog it has nicely made but more consideration for weight than strength. I will ride it as is for now and hope for the best. Maybe for its 1,000 mile birthday I will spring for one of the Luna Might Min 30 tooth rings and a Sturmey 3 speed IGH.
That suxs.

Based on my limited experience it looks like could've been a few things: shifted under power, crosschaining plus too much torque or chain overshifting into the spokes due to a weak derailleur... The chain snap was a plate coming off from the pin, most likely due to side load, this is how I broke my first chain and how I bent my first cassette, all because of shifting under power... this happened when I first got my ebike running.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by sather » Feb 14, 2016 8:34 am

I discovered the problem with my Wolftooth 42. Wolftooth says you will need to install longer 4mm "B" screw to make the Shimano derailleurs clear the 42 tooth. I have now bent several "B" screws because the 4mm screw does not seem to be strong enough for the power of the BBSHD. I understand that the SRAM mountain derailleurs do not have this problem.
I check the 10 speed chain about once of week for stretch and carry an extra chain in my pack. I would usually break about one chain a month with my Lightning Rods 3000 watt, but none so far with the BBSHD. I never shift under power with the Lightning Rods or the BBSHD. You can buy a momentary kill switch for the BBSHD from EM3ev or make one yourself.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by waynebergman » Feb 15, 2016 10:52 pm

Looks like things are back working fine after the tweeking of the the 42 tooth REAR cog. Time will tell if the bending of the REAR cog will cause it to bend again. I feel the best plan is to source out a Sturmey Archer SX-RK3 IGH and then weld a 36 tooth steel cog to the cog that comes with the 3 speed hub. As first gear on these hubs runs at 75% from one to one direct drive I will be very close to the gearing I have now. I like the big 42 tooth FRONT luna ring up front as I think its best to run the biggest rings you can for the same gear ratios when you can, and weight (measured in grams)I don't really care about.

Has anyone found a good source for the 170mm Sturmey Archer SX-RK3 IGH disc compatible hub. I am finding everyone is out of stock or else its way over priced.

I am lucky with my rims on this bike as they are 36 hole so the Sturmey should be the trick.

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Re: Bafang HD1000 FATTY - ME TOO

Post by JPLabs » Feb 24, 2016 11:54 pm

Great bike with some sweet mods! Love the motor guard and gears reduction.

I see it came to you with Vee rubber tires, V-8 I believe. I like the looks of these for commuting use, but I have read that they handle terribly. What did you think of them?

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