New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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larsottar
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New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » Apr 20, 2016 4:26 pm

Hi,

I was made aware of a new offering over at BMSBattery today: "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor".
https://bmsbattery.com/home/803-sdz2-to ... motor.html

Seems like a an attractive alternative to the Bafang BBS, $50 cheaper, with torque sensor, better installation guide etc. It also looks very very similar to what Schachner (http://elektrobikes.com/Bausatz) is offering with their "MM15" which I suppose is a good thing.

Not much information to find anywhere apart from BMS and Schachner as far as I can tell. Anyone have experience with this one or know anything about the manufacturer?

Cheers
Lars Ottar
Last edited by larsottar on Jun 08, 2016 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WoodlandHills
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by WoodlandHills » Apr 20, 2016 4:34 pm

Looks like 350w maximum and only 36v.......... Let us know when they list one with 30a and 52v!

Dr.Electric
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dr.Electric » Apr 23, 2016 2:24 pm

I just instlled one on a Bullit cargo bike. Had som clearance trouble due to the cargobike frame. Had to use a grinder on the motor.
Chain line is less than optimal.
Quality and finish is good !

Paired it with an Alfine 8 IGH.
Test driwen it for 2 km.
Works nicely. Very torque, but will only give power when you pedal with som torque !
Makes you feel connected to the bike and feel like Supermann !

I think i had it for about 280 $ + shipping. Elifebike.com

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » Apr 24, 2016 4:42 pm

Thanks for the input. Seems like this motor has to be tried. Interesting you comment on the assist only kicking in when you apply torque, similar comment from other user of this motor over here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1178362

(Which is an earlier thread on the exact same question, so maybe one should gather posts on that one instead of here.)

Cheers
Lars

Avitt
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Avitt » Apr 24, 2016 7:39 pm

larsottar wrote:Thanks for the input. Seems like this motor has to be tried. Interesting you comment on the assist only kicking in when you apply torque, similar comment from other user of this motor over here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1178362

(Which is an earlier thread on the exact same question, so maybe one should gather posts on that one instead of here.)

Cheers
Lars
Torque assist without PAS is not ideal (unless you want to get a lot of exercise, every time you ride). At the very least, they should provide some ability to smooth put the pedal strokes.

Dr.Electric
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dr.Electric » Apr 30, 2016 2:25 pm

I Think it drives very nice! The power from the motor only starts when you push the pedal. But you don't have to push very hard. In turbo mode you can pedal quite leisurely and still have power.
There seem to be a hidden menu in the controller where you can remove the speed limit and also boost amp to 16 A!
So peak power 550 watt?

mscoot
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » May 01, 2016 11:56 am

I just instlled one on a Bullit cargo bike. Had som clearance trouble due to the cargobike frame. Had to use a grinder on the motor.
Chain line is less than optimal.
Quality and finish is good !

Paired it with an Alfine 8 IGH.
Test driwen it for 2 km.
Works nicely. Very torque, but will only give power when you pedal with som torque !
Makes you feel connected to the bike and feel like Supermann !

I think i had it for about 280 $ + shipping. Elifebike.com
Could you please provide us with some pictures of your installation on the Bullitt?
I'm thinking of doing the same myself (on a Bullitt), but looking at the installation guide and my bikes frame, I can't really understand how it can fit.

The Bullitt frame slopes down and forward from the bottom bracket and there is no space between the chainstays to mount that last fixing bracket (which seems to go in place of the kickstand).

I have an Alfine 11 and can shift up under load in the lower gears (up to 4th) shifting down I need to back off the pedals a little and I'm curious on how this works with this motor. I suppose the Alfine 8 is similar, btw. I would think it is very crucial that the motor isn't putting out 350w of peak power when trying to shift the IGH. Any thoughts on this?

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 01, 2016 11:29 pm

I am New to ebikes, I am going to make my wife one. This looks just what I was looking for, but does anyone know if it fits a 73mm bottom bracket?

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » May 02, 2016 4:02 pm

Ecilopaveht,

I think the Bafang BBS does fit a 73 mm BB, but not sure about this one. Instructions says you have 11 mm of threads left when inserted on a 68 mm BB. I can probably give you a better idea as soon as I get my shipment.

Cheers
Lars

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 03, 2016 12:48 am

Lars,

I ordered the BBSHD for my bike, I arrives tomorrow (very excited!)

I appreciate if you let me know if it fits a 73mm BB when you get it in. If anyone else has attempted to fit this in a 73mm BB I would like to hear. I am in the middle of building a 36V 10S 15P LI-ON 30mAH battery pack for a motor I do not yet have. It would be great if this fit!

Thank you.

Dr.Electric
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dr.Electric » May 03, 2016 8:47 am

Sorry. Not home and cant upload picture today.
But i had to use a grinder in the motor.
Had to cut away most of the brackets.
The motor is only mounted with the big nut on the crank.
But it is a very tigh fitt and the motor cant mowe aft ore front at all!
The chainline is not very good. But doesn´t seem to giv any problems under load.

When you shift the alfine gear you dont have to pedal. Just ease of the pedals for at second and do the shift.
I think it works smooth with the alfine 8.

mscoot
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » May 04, 2016 3:16 am

Sorry. Not home and cant upload picture today.
But i had to use a grinder in the motor.
Had to cut away most of the brackets.
The motor is only mounted with the big nut on the crank.
But it is a very tigh fitt and the motor cant mowe aft ore front at all!
The chainline is not very good. But doesn´t seem to giv any problems under load.

When you shift the alfine gear you dont have to pedal. Just ease of the pedals for at second and do the shift.
I think it works smooth with the alfine 8.
Sounds promising! I think the Bafang would need some sort of shift sensor to work nicely with an Alfine IGH hub. The way you describe this motor it seems that would not be needed.. :)

What brackets did you have to remove? Was this purely to get it to slide into the BB?
Thanks again. Looking forward to seeing the pictures!

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 05, 2016 11:37 pm

Does anyone know if the controller is programmable like the BBSHD? Can you set any settings or are you stuck with what is pre-programmed.

mscoot
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » May 12, 2016 6:48 am

So, I went over to my local e-bike shop that actually sells these motors to try and take some measurements myself.

It doesn't look like I would be able to fit the tsdz2 motor to the Bullitt without cutting and welding in the frame. How did you do it ?

Dr.Electric wrote:The motor is only mounted with the big nut on the crank.
But it is a very tigh fitt and the motor cant mowe aft ore front at all!
Attachments
DSC_0026.JPG

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » May 12, 2016 2:19 pm

ecilopaveht wrote: I appreciate if you let me know if it fits a 73mm BB when you get it in. If anyone else has attempted to fit this in a 73mm BB I would like to hear. I am in the middle of building a 36V 10S 15P LI-ON 30mAH battery pack for a motor I do not yet have. It would be great if this fit!
.
I have just mounted the TSDZ2 on my 68 mm BB and it appears there is exactly 5 mm additional threads available. It should fit a 73 mm BB.
TSDZ2 - mounted-1.jpg
(126.71 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
TSDZ2 shaft closeup 1.JPG
(119.63 KiB) Downloaded 110 times
-Lars

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » May 12, 2016 2:30 pm

ecilopaveht wrote:Does anyone know if the controller is programmable like the BBSHD? Can you set any settings or are you stuck with what is pre-programmed.
I got hold of the "specification" for the display. The "A" setting seems to have to do with power somehow but haven't tried it yet.
VLCD-5大液晶说明书V1.1修改版.pdf
(573.72 KiB) Downloaded 1067 times
-Lars

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 14, 2016 10:29 pm

Wow thank you! I think I may try this on my wifes bike.

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 15, 2016 9:33 pm

make sure to give us an update on how it works.

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » May 19, 2016 4:09 am

Hi,

Have tested it a bit now. I have installed more than ten Bafang BBS 01/02 over the past two years so that is my main basis of comparison. I think the TSDZ2 motor outperforms the Bafang on all but two accounts; installation was easier, better thought through and better documented, quality of motor and parts feels better (time will tell about durability), using the motor is way more intuitive compared to Bafang, it's basically like a Bosch motor in that regard, finally it's very competitively priced. When it comes to noise and spare parts the Bafang is better still. The TSDZ2 produces noticably more noise when not assisting as well as when it is assisting compared to the Bafang according to my ears (I might try and record this and post). Also I have requested an extension cable for the speed sensor from both the website pswpower (did not have) and the motor manufacturer (did not respond), but it seems there is basically no spare parts/ accessory availability.

Regarding the torque of the motor I think it has plenty for a 250 W motor. Some people have mentioned the torque sensor might be a bit too sensitive, meaning you can sense assist variation as you pedal through one cycle. I can see what they are getting at, but did not percieve this as an issue at all. Compared to the Bafang 01/02 I think the TSDZ2 provides assist in a superior way. Having the torque sensor react quickly is more an advantage with regard to braking and gear shifting than a drawback I think.

That's it for my first impression. Hope to return with a noise comparison video before too long.

Cheers
Lars

ecilopaveht
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ecilopaveht » May 21, 2016 10:48 am

Thanks for the info LARS,

Man, this is tough I have a bbshd and want to build my wife an ebike, this motor looks great but I am worried about the parts issue. I am waiting to here the noise difference. Thanks again for all input on this motor.

Dr.Electric
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dr.Electric » May 25, 2016 2:29 pm

So i finally had some time to test it some more.

Se added picture for clearance. I had to cut away almost all of the motor mount on the right side.
But the motor fits snugly.

With a freshly charged 10 s 5p Samsung 35e pack I have 550-620 watt under load.
The motor delivers this continually going uphill. Used 2Ah on 10 minutes and the motor was probably about 35 Celsius after this workout.
It has a quite nice engine sound. Almost like a little motor cycle engine.
Works fine with the alfine 8.
I changed some settings in the controller. Now is powers the bike until 35 km/h. But the power change setting didn't change the motor wattage.

The bad stuff:
I can feel a little wobble in the main bearing from the crank.
This is a little surprising!
I hope that the main bearing will last!
Attachments
image.jpg

PhaenTa
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » May 25, 2016 4:33 pm

Hi everyone.

This thread (Lars in particular) has helped me a great deal to decide which solution to go for.

So after countless hours doing research I went for this motor as well. The last piece of the puzzle (battery) finally arrived
today so I had the chance to test it out. Here is my little review.

This Is my first conversion to an e-bike so I don't have much to compare with but in my opinion the motor is plenty powerful.
At least in the top 2 speed selections. For instance, when in turbo, I can easily ride on the rear wheel for quite some time :-)
And taking a u-turn feels almost unsafe. Hills are no obstacle. I can easily maintain a fast pace even though it's quite steep.
One has to keep on pedaling continuously though, just like without a motor. Which imho is a plus. The motor shuts off immediately
after no pedal input so it's obviously quite power efficient.

The design is great and well thought through and from one side it's almost hidden behind the gear. I was after a "stealthy" look
and added some color to the outer ring to match the bike better. My battery is compact (36V/8Ah) and is in a small bag under
the seat. The system has a minimum amount of wire clutter so the bike still looks almost non-electric. Total weight 19KG which
I'm perfectly fine with on a mountain bike with a front damper.

Prior to ordering I was unsure whether it would fit my bike properly since the crank opening is 73mm while the instruction
clearly states max 68mm. Well, it fits perfectly but the included fastening screws and bushes are too short so that had to
be addressed. I also had to sand the opening to get the motor to fit inside. The rest was real simple. All brackets and bolts
fit just fine.

I felt no weird vibrations or other misbehaviour during the 5km test ride. I guess fastening the motor with all intended brackets
is a must considering the force it operates with. The noise it makes reminds me of the power windows in my car. Totally acceptable.
The only thing I am uncertain about is whether my chain is now a bit too short?

Well anyway, hope this was of any help.

Og igjen takk for god info Lars :)

Image

PhaenTa
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » May 26, 2016 12:44 pm

I totally forgot to mention that I went for the 350W version and the extended menu allows
me to select a 45km/h speed limit as opposed to your 35.

I'm wondering whether this is the only difference between the 250W and 350W versions or
an actually more powerfull motor as well?

Also, there's an option to enable or disable 25km/t. I wonder what that does. Ahh, so many questions.

Anyway, after raising the limit this thing really flies! :)

larsottar
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larsottar » May 26, 2016 5:02 pm

Hi,

Happy you got it working and that you're pleased with it PhaenTa.

I finally got around to recording the sound from this motor and the Bafang. The recording is done with an old MiniDV camera with a decent external microphone. Motors are mounted to different bikes but are ridden up the same hills in same conditions;


I suppose what anoyed me the most was the noise it makes when not assisting. So I decided to open up the motor to have a closer look. Here are some pictures;
DSC_0067-2.jpg
DSC_0068.JPG
DSC_0069.JPG
DSC_0070.JPG
DSC_0072.JPG
DSC_0075.JPG
The motor is smaller than I thought! After opening the motor the quality impression I have is improved. It is very well put together, and the electrical part is done really neat. Not being a mechanic I have googled spur and helical gears and it seems a helical gear will generally produce less noise than a spur one. The TSDZ2 has a spur gear on the main shaft whereas the Bafang has a helical gear. The helical I suppose is more expensive to machine and does produce axial force which is probably why the Bafang has those weird bearing on it's main shaft.

Anyway, although there is no remedy for the noise, I have decided to replace the good old Bafang with the TSDZ2 on my main cargo bike and let it endure some proper loading. Maybe I won't need the bell as much :)

By the way I have the 250 W version and did try to tamper with the power adjustment settings, but no noticable change as has been posted by others.

Cheers
Lars

PhaenTa
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Re: New "SDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » May 27, 2016 7:04 am

That is literally an in depth analysis. :) Interesting to get a glimpse at the internals. Hope that plastic (delrin?) gear holds up..

I am surprised that yours makes so much noise without assisting. In that mode my motor is almost completely
silent and there's no "grinding" in either modes, only a faint electric motor sound. But obviously still louder
than 8Fang.

On a side note, I wonder what that Amp selection in the menu actually does? My 8Ah battery seems to give the same
result regardless of the setting. I'll try measuring the actual draw from the battery when I get some spare time to get
an idea of the max load. Considering the thin wires running between the battery and motor, I'm suspecting it's far less
than the max setting.

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