Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

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This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 20, 2016 6:06 pm

This project was intended to be the ultimate full suspension CARBON e-mountain bike build

Having built 15 ebikes over 5 years this ebike needed to be special and solve the ground clearance problems experienced with the Bafang Mid-Drives. The Tangent was tried, but that did not work out. When the Cyclone 3000 is installed in the light carbon frame, it may be close to eBike Utopia we all seek. The 3000 mounted with custom brackets inside the frame provides excellent ground clearance with significantly more power than a BBS-HD... but still a little noisy for shared public trails.

Because the Cyclone 3000 is fairly loud, the BBS-HD in a fat bike is the main trail bike around here and the carbon bike is now an experimental platform and a good place to try a Mini-Cyclone. Using custom brackets the mini cyclone motor mounted very low in the frame and the light weight complimented the carbon bike... too bad the mini is not yet ready for primetime.

IMHO follows...

PRO:
Good Price
Nice small package
Lighter weight
More power than a BBS-HD
Can be installed with custom brackets inside the frame
Can take 52v and it is rated for 38 amps
Impressive performance at higher throttle settings...BUT ONLY for short burst

CONS:
Way too LOUD, for practical use
Overheats and shuts down unless ridden at low power and higher RPM
Very little information is available about fixes or modifications for this motor... AFT-ebikes in Australia seem to be the most knowledgeable

POSSIBLE FIXES
Install a heat sink from... http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... 6hiv47l247
Install plastic gears when/if they become available... http://www.aft-ebike.com/upgrades.html
Oil bath conversion for gearbox

Bottomline:
Would I buy another mini cyclone?
Not likely, the mini cyclone has been removed and the Cyclone 3000 is back in the carbon frame

Attached picture shows the installed mini cyclone
minicarbonsm.jpg

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by jk1 » Sep 21, 2016 1:28 am

Cyclone 3000 is back in the carbon frame
The C3000w motor has lots of benefits but low weight is not one of them ! i would think that its contradictory to put this heavy motor on a nice light carbon frame ?

The mini cyclone is a lot lighter and similar peak power of around 3kw, also if you get one of the tiny Kelly controllers from AFT it would be even lighter again than the heavy and big cyclone controller on the C3000w.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 21, 2016 5:32 am

Judging by your history here, you seem to be trying to convince people of things the rest of us already know to be untrue.

Also, I would hardly call the cyclone "Ebike eutopia". Putting that drive on a carbon bike is like putting lipstick on Pig.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 21, 2016 7:05 am

Ok, open to suggestions

What is the right motor for this frame that can be ridden on mult-use trails without obnoxious noise? (It must fit inside the frame)

Considering...

The BBS-HD won't fit this frame.
The mini Cyclone is too loud and overheats.
The Tangent is too loud

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Alex07 » Sep 21, 2016 7:53 am

Also, I would hardly call the cyclone "Ebike eutopia". Putting that drive on a carbon bike is like putting lipstick on Pig.


Recumpence don't you sell astro motor kits ? so only those are good ? :)

Elementary posted his tangent Astro motor was too noisy to be practical due to the very high RPM, which is also why they are very lightweight but also overheat easy and are expensive 700 USD for a motor ! their is no free lunch it seems with midrives.

I was reading this recent review of the tangent which was quite negative actually that it was very noisy and the 3220 couldn't pump out anywhere near 6kw with a normal ebike battery pack.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/09/1 ... motocross/

From my reading here it seems their is no perfect mid drive kit, everyone has some compromise /benefits pick and choose what you want or what fits !

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 21, 2016 8:50 am

Alex07 wrote:
Also, I would hardly call the cyclone "Ebike eutopia". Putting that drive on a carbon bike is like putting lipstick on Pig.


Recumpence don't you sell astro motor kits ? so only those are good ? :)

Elementary posted his tangent Astro motor was too noisy to be practical due to the very high RPM, which is also why they are very lightweight but also overheat easy and are expensive 700 USD for a motor ! their is no free lunch it seems with midrives.

I was reading this recent review of the tangent which was quite negative actually that it was very noisy and the 3220 couldn't pump out anywhere near 6kw with a normal ebike battery pack.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/09/1 ... motocross/

From my reading here it seems their is no perfect mid drive kit, everyone has some compromise /benefits pick and choose what you want or what fits !
I have no axe to grind here. I am in no way trying to sell anything. I have not mentioned my drives at all. That is your personal assumption, not truth.

Try reading his threads and posts. The speak for themselves about the funky perspective the OP has.

The issue you bring up with the 3220 not pumping out 6kw, that is 100% the fault of the battery pack. I consistantly pull over 10,000 watts (as high as 14,000) watts through a single 3220. It is all about the battery pack, not the motor.

Actually, my drive would be incorrect for this application anyway. Every drive system has its pluses and minuses.

This is not about astro motors, however. It is about the OP's comment related to the Cyclone being ebike eutopia. They are NOT.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 21, 2016 1:40 pm

But we will never know until we try them all.

In my case a Bikesdirect full suspension Sniper dispite it weight is a great trails bike and it is stealthy.

The eCarbon project was intended to push the limits and after installing the Tangent, Cyclone 3000w and the Cyclone 1680w, the Cyclone 3000w seem to be winner!

When wire to the Luna BBS-HD full twist throttle Cyclone 3000w torque is far more usable than was a Tangent or the Cyclone 1680w. The Cyclone 3000w is 3 pounds heavier but in the woods with mud and hills it pulled and climb better than either Tangent or Cyclone 1680w. So far the Cyclone 3000w has not broken or overheated and when necessary it can be shifted into the highest gears and creep along at 8 mph. Which was quiet enough that two ladies and dogs just said HI and waved... dogs tails wagging... is that is a dogs way to say HI?

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Alex07 » Sep 21, 2016 4:32 pm

Unread postby elementary » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:10 am

But we will never know until we try them all.

In my case a Bikesdirect full suspension Sniper dispite it weight is a great trails bike and it is stealthy.

The eCarbon project was intended to push the limits and after installing the Tangent, Cyclone 3000w and the Cyclone 1680w, the Cyclone 3000w seem to be winner!

When wire to the Luna BBS-HD full twist throttle Cyclone 3000w torque is far more usable than was a Tangent or the Cyclone 1680w. The Cyclone 3000w is 3 pounds heavier but in the woods with mud and hills it pulled and climb better than either Tangent or Cyclone 1680w.
Elementary your one of the few people i have seen on here that has tried all 4 of most popular mid drives now, i.e the BBSHD , Tangent 3220 6kw and Cyclone 1680w and cyclone 3000w so it's interesting you say the C3000w has the most usable torque and its quiet and you prefer that and the only downside is the extra 3 pounds of weight ? What voltage and current limits were you running the C3000w and was that with the standard cyclone controller ?

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 21, 2016 5:58 pm

The Cyclone 3000w is NOT silent and stealthy like the BBS-HD, but it has a lot more torque... More torque than needed in the woods using 14s 16000Mahr HobbyKing Lipo 52v nomial 58.v8 charged. The highest the stock Cyclone 3000w controller pulled was 58.4 volts at 39.2 Amps.... without any modification to the shunts.

Bottomline, the BBS-HD Sniper will be ridden more because it is easier in the tight trails, but if a challenge is need the Cyclone 3000 can deliver.

Example, the fastest ride a 4" hardtail BBS-HD fattie with Bluto fork was a 8 mph average over set woods course, if pushed the BBS-HD Sniper full suspension can average about 9 - 10mph. Pushing the eCarbon full suspension with a Cyclone 3000w averaged 13 mph over the same course... something too dangerous to do again. The ride is something like an old Honda 125cc Ensenada motocross bike and a 72v Cyclone 3000w maybe impossible to ride in the woods. Never tried the Cyclone 1680w because it overheats, nor the Tangent for other reasons

Older pictures of the 3000 bracket and eCarbon
cyclone1sm.jpg
XM Carbon Cyclone 3000w
3000bracketsm.jpg
Extended bracket

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by tangentdave » Sep 21, 2016 8:31 pm

I wish I had the opportunity to troubleshoot why OP says the Tangent made less torque than a cyclone before he asked for a refund. The CA only showed 1.5Ah used when I powered on the system he returned. Maybe I didn't get the profile settings correct for the 3 position switch before I sent it out. Oh well, the CA is reset now.

40:1 reduction in a single stage is difficult, let alone spinning at 10kRPM. Tangent gearboxes need about 50 miles before the gear faces wear in together and become quiet. Elementary had the 3kW 40:1 drive with the fatbike crankset: 16->24t chain for an overall of 60:1 between the motor and crank.

Why is the sound of a gearbox a concern on multi-use trails? 3kW is not bicycling anymore.


-dave
Peregrine DH/Tangent 8kW
tangentmotors.com

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by aCeMadMod » Sep 23, 2016 4:29 am

hi sorry to say , Buy a motor bike, you have a shity Fat bike it for show off that can't ride

i with dave and recumpence both have been nice to you, dave is the man, nice to give a refund, i know it take time to fix some things but he has gone out of his way to make thing right, atfer you got his gearbox and motor, setup 8)

unlike Shity bands, good lucky get your items in the frist place,

Why is the sound of a gearbox a concern on multi-use trails? 3kW is not bicycling anymore.

if can't read post how to fix cyclone 600- 1200 motor, i have posted in past You Sould pay any cost to get a better motor gearbox,



noob, same shit come up all the time,
Last edited by aCeMadMod on Sep 23, 2016 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Wheazel » Sep 23, 2016 7:53 am

tangentdave wrote:I wish I had the opportunity to troubleshoot why OP says the Tangent made less torque than a cyclone before he asked for a refund. The CA only showed 1.5Ah used when I powered on the system he returned. Maybe I didn't get the profile settings correct for the 3 position switch before I sent it out. Oh well, the CA is reset now.

40:1 reduction in a single stage is difficult, let alone spinning at 10kRPM. Tangent gearboxes need about 50 miles before the gear faces wear in together and become quiet. Elementary had the 3kW 40:1 drive with the fatbike crankset: 16->24t chain for an overall of 60:1 between the motor and crank.

Why is the sound of a gearbox a concern on multi-use trails? 3kW is not bicycling anymore.


-dave
From my engineering perspective your driveunit is the very best currently available solution for offroad bicycles.
Clearly, anyone with basic mechanical+electrical knowledge would question the results if they showed that a 60:1 reduction with a 3220 didn't deliver torque.
Something is fishy, be it settings or be it clueless user. Maybe both.

For the sound question, generally silent > noisy. Altho the tangent drive isn't very loud, it still has a distinct sound that says motorized bike.
That is probably no problem when riding alone in the woods, but might be for public trails around others.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 23, 2016 7:58 am

Wheazel wrote:
tangentdave wrote:I wish I had the opportunity to troubleshoot why OP says the Tangent made less torque than a cyclone before he asked for a refund. The CA only showed 1.5Ah used when I powered on the system he returned. Maybe I didn't get the profile settings correct for the 3 position switch before I sent it out. Oh well, the CA is reset now.

40:1 reduction in a single stage is difficult, let alone spinning at 10kRPM. Tangent gearboxes need about 50 miles before the gear faces wear in together and become quiet. Elementary had the 3kW 40:1 drive with the fatbike crankset: 16->24t chain for an overall of 60:1 between the motor and crank.

Why is the sound of a gearbox a concern on multi-use trails? 3kW is not bicycling anymore.


-dave
From my engineering perspective your driveunit is the very best currently available solution for offroad bicycles.
Clearly, anyone with basic mechanical+electrical knowledge would question the results if they showed that a 60:1 reduction with a 3220 didn't deliver torque.
Something is fishy, be it settings or be it clueless user. Maybe both.

For the sound question, generally silent > noisy. Altho the tangent drive isn't very loud, it still has a distinct sound that says motorized bike.
That is probably no problem when riding alone in the woods, but might be for public trails around others.
Sound is a subjective thing. I love the muffled wine of a toothed belt that is one reason I run them. I also tune my motor cooling fans for a pleasant sound.

For crank drive systems, nothing can touch the Tangent for size and form factor, that is for sure. For sheer ruggedness at a low cost in a crank drive system, LightningRods is tough to beat. The Cyclone? Well, hmm, read up on them. They function, but they are very problematic.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Alex07 » Sep 23, 2016 5:13 pm

For crank drive systems, nothing can touch the Tangent for size and form factor, that is for sure. For sheer ruggedness at a low cost in a crank drive system, LightningRods is tough to beat. The Cyclone? Well, hmm, read up on them. They function, but they are very problematic.
Not all cyclone kits are problematic, the AFT modded cyclone of Cheeckybloke has done 8900 miles
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1195612
i haven't seen any other of the 3kw mid drive kits last anywhere near that long ?

Looks like he will also be running it at 20S 70A thats like 5kw ?? and from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo battery. so it will be interesting to see real world which one is more powerful with a normal ebike battery that has some range. The AFT cyclone should also be quieter as it works at lower RPM and they have some mods to reduce the noise it seems, i think their is no doubt the noise is an issue with the tangent kit thats why this OP didnt want to use it , its the highest RPM kit after all and rpm makes the noise.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Alex07 wrote:
For crank drive systems, nothing can touch the Tangent for size and form factor, that is for sure. For sheer ruggedness at a low cost in a crank drive system, LightningRods is tough to beat. The Cyclone? Well, hmm, read up on them. They function, but they are very problematic.
Not all cyclone kits are problematic, the AFT modded cyclone of Cheeckybloke has done 8900 miles
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1195612
i haven't seen any other of the 3kw mid drive kits last anywhere near that long ?

Looks like he will also be running it at 20S 70A thats like 5kw ?? and from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo battery. so it will be interesting to see real world which one is more powerful with a normal ebike battery that has some range. The AFT cyclone should also be quieter as it works at lower RPM and they have some mods to reduce the noise it seems, i think their is no doubt the noise is an issue with the tangent kit thats why this OP didnt want to use it , its the highest RPM kit after all and rpm makes the noise.
High miles is nothing new. I have a customer with 30,000 miles problem free.......

Why are people still harping on the whole "3220s only put out 4kw". That is such a crock.
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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Sep 23, 2016 6:03 pm

Alex07 wrote: Looks like he will also be running it at 20S 70A thats like 5kw ?? ... The AFT cyclone should also be quieter as it works at lower RPM and they have some mods to reduce the noise it seems, i think their is no doubt the noise is an issue with the tangent kit thats why this OP didnt want to use it , its the highest RPM kit after all and rpm makes the noise.
That Cyclone drive is noisy as well. It's already noisy at 48volts. Spinning it at 20S is going to be even louder. It may not be as a noisy as a Tangent Kit, but it's much louder than a BBSHD or Cyclone 3000. The best way to describe it is a muffled cordless drill. The noise comes from the metal planetary gears. If you can replace those gears with nylon ones, you could reduce the noise.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Sep 23, 2016 6:28 pm

recumpence wrote: Why are people still harping on the whole "3220s only put out 4kw". That is such a crock.
Well, to be fair he did say "from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo"

The part he's not getting is the limitation is not due to the Astro 3220, but due to the battery.

That's like saying the cyclone 3000 can only put out 3000 watts only for a short period of time unless you use at least 12 gauge wiring. When using 28 gauge, the wires melt if pumping 40 amps for more than 2 seconds. You don't blame the motor for a limitation elsewhere in the system.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 23, 2016 6:54 pm

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:
recumpence wrote: Why are people still harping on the whole "3220s only put out 4kw". That is such a crock.
Well, to be fair he did say "from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo"

The part he's not getting is the limitation is not due to the Astro 3220, but due to the battery.

That's like saying the cyclone 3000 can only put out 3000 watts only for a short period of time unless you use at least 12 gauge wiring. When using 28 gauge, the wires melt if pumping 40 amps for more than 2 seconds. You don't blame the motor for a limitation elsewhere in the system.
Yup, agreed.
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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Alex07 » Sep 24, 2016 12:56 am

High miles is nothing new. I have a customer with 30,000 miles problem free.......
That's interesting can you show us his build thread ? what power motor was it and what reduction etc ?
On a direct drive hub motor or direct drive mid drive i could understand any kit could do this as the only wearing part is the bearings.
But on any geared motor the gear reduction systems are the main thing that will wear. So its a lot harder for a geared mid drive to last that long, now multiplication factors are the more power and more RPM the motor spins. if it was 200w and overkill well yes easy.. For slow RPM motors the wear rate would be be low, but for a 10,000 rpm astro motor mid drive i would be very surprised to see it last that long, i don't think anyone has every said HIGH RPM systems last long.... they might have high power to wait ratios and work for a short time .. but they wear out very quick! compared to a large low RPM motor or direct drive.
recumpence wrote:
Why are people still harping on the whole "3220s only put out 4kw". That is such a crock.


Well, to be fair he did say "from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo"

The part he's not getting is the limitation is not due to the Astro 3220, but due to the battery.
That's exactly what i was saying their is even a link to Karls review above ! most people don't want to use lipo packs due to safety and hassels to charge them. They want an off the shelf 14 series 18650 battery that you can buy from places like EM3ev that will work with this kit. So with one of those batteries real world testing from Karl showed for most of the ride it was a 4kw motor. Fair enough on paper a kit can have a 12 kw theoretical peak, but in the real world with a real battery Karl showed what it would do.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by cheekybloke » Sep 24, 2016 5:32 am

After altering the reduction on my L.R. Big Block kit i have discovered that a high prm drive does actually wear less than a lower powered kit.
My original AFT kit eats chains way quicker.
So it would appear there is something to this.
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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 24, 2016 7:04 am

Alex07 wrote:
High miles is nothing new. I have a customer with 30,000 miles problem free.......
That's interesting can you show us his build thread ? what power motor was it and what reduction etc ?
On a direct drive hub motor or direct drive mid drive i could understand any kit could do this as the only wearing part is the bearings.
But on any geared motor the gear reduction systems are the main thing that will wear. So its a lot harder for a geared mid drive to last that long, now multiplication factors are the more power and more RPM the motor spins. if it was 200w and overkill well yes easy.. For slow RPM motors the wear rate would be be low, but for a 10,000 rpm astro motor mid drive i would be very surprised to see it last that long, i don't think anyone has every said HIGH RPM systems last long.... they might have high power to wait ratios and work for a short time .. but they wear out very quick! compared to a large low RPM motor or direct drive.
recumpence wrote:
Why are people still harping on the whole "3220s only put out 4kw". That is such a crock.


Well, to be fair he did say "from Karls recent review its seems the astro 3220 can only do peaks of 4kw and only for a short time unless you use a lipo"

The part he's not getting is the limitation is not due to the Astro 3220, but due to the battery.
That's exactly what i was saying their is even a link to Karls review above ! most people don't want to use lipo packs due to safety and hassels to charge them. They want an off the shelf 14 series 18650 battery that you can buy from places like EM3ev that will work with this kit. So with one of those batteries real world testing from Karl showed for most of the ride it was a 4kw motor. Fair enough on paper a kit can have a 12 kw theoretical peak, but in the real world with a real battery Karl showed what it would do.
And that is another issue...... So, those of us who run lipo do not live in the real world?

Lipo is not a safety concern. High internal resistance cells of any chemistry are a concern. In fact, lipo cells do not go out of balance like other cell types do.

There is so much misconception about rc motors and lipo cells. It gets frustrating constantly correcting people.
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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 24, 2016 12:55 pm

All three motors were tried on the same full suspension full fender carbon bike with a squishie seat and 14s 16000ahr hobbyking Lipo's.
The only difference was the Tangent 34t to 11/36t cassette and both Cyclone are 36t to 11/36t cassette.
Dave was emailed about the Tangent pulling 3210 50-60amp with less than impressive performance and replied with some tweaks that didn't change much... I appreciate him offering a refund.

My opinion still stands, the Cyclone 3000 is currently my best power solution for the eCarbon woods bikes that weights 48 pounds including fenders and suspended seat. The Cyclone 1680 was little over 2 pounds lighter, but needs cooling fins which will add weight and may get packed with mud.

Soon a second eCarbon full suspension will be built with a finned cooling and oil conversion Cyclone 1680w to see if the mods will improve the 1680w

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by Alex07 » Sep 26, 2016 4:09 pm

by recumpence » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:04 am

Alex07 wrote:
High miles is nothing new. I have a customer with 30,000 miles problem free.......

That's interesting can you show us his build thread ? what power motor was it and what reduction etc ?
On a direct drive hub motor or direct drive mid drive i could understand any kit could do this as the only wearing part is the bearings.
But on any geared motor the gear reduction systems are the main thing that will wear. So its a lot harder for a geared mid drive to last that long, now multiplication factors are the more power and more RPM the motor spins. if it was 200w and overkill well yes easy.. For slow RPM motors the wear rate would be be low, but for a 10,000 rpm astro motor mid drive i would be very surprised to see it last that long, i don't think anyone has every said HIGH RPM systems last long.... they might have high power to wait ratios and work for a short time .. but they wear out very quick! compared to a large low RPM motor or direct drive.
Recumpence i am still waiting for evidence of your 30,000 mile mid drive with 3kw or more power ? Cheeckybloke is a real forum poster on here with a build thread and has done nearly 9000 miles on his 3kw AFT mid drive so we can believe him, their is a lot of people on here that talk hot air on here so i don't believe anything unless i see evidence of it.

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Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by recumpence » Sep 26, 2016 6:48 pm

Alex07 wrote:
by recumpence » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:04 am

Alex07 wrote:
High miles is nothing new. I have a customer with 30,000 miles problem free.......

That's interesting can you show us his build thread ? what power motor was it and what reduction etc ?
On a direct drive hub motor or direct drive mid drive i could understand any kit could do this as the only wearing part is the bearings.
But on any geared motor the gear reduction systems are the main thing that will wear. So its a lot harder for a geared mid drive to last that long, now multiplication factors are the more power and more RPM the motor spins. if it was 200w and overkill well yes easy.. For slow RPM motors the wear rate would be be low, but for a 10,000 rpm astro motor mid drive i would be very surprised to see it last that long, i don't think anyone has every said HIGH RPM systems last long.... they might have high power to wait ratios and work for a short time .. but they wear out very quick! compared to a large low RPM motor or direct drive.
Recumpence i am still waiting for evidence of your 30,000 mile mid drive with 3kw or more power ? Cheeckybloke is a real forum poster on here with a build thread and has done nearly 9000 miles on his 3kw AFT mid drive so we can believe him, their is a lot of people on here that talk hot air on here so i don't believe anything unless i see evidence of it.
So, I am not a real poster? I have many thousands of miles on my bikes without issues. But, my experience over the last decade means nothing? Hmm, you better rethink your logic.

The majority of my customers are not on this forum. So I cannot show you a build thread on that bike. I can tell you it is a full suspension trike owned by a customer in texas.

No one on this forum has any real proof of their claims. Look at Matti C and his bike. He has been running an astro drive for years without any issues if you think I am just blowing hot air.

You just keep holding fast to your incorrect opinion and I will keep riding my impossibly fast bikes with impossibly high reliability.

It is amazing how narrow minded people on this forum have become. I will say it AGAIN, this has absolutely nothing to do with my drives. All I said earlier is that cyclone drives are known to be problematic and to call the cyclone "ebike utopia" is wrong. That is all I said. All of a sudden this has become a "Matt doesn't know what he is talking about" bash session.

You guys stick with your assumptions and I will stick with what you guys insist does not hold true. After a decade doing this and many thousands of miles, I know what I am saying.

Alex, how long have you been on this forum? I try not to throw my weight around here. But, sometimes it needs to be done. Read up a bit. You have no idea who you are arguing with. Both you and the OP are very new here. Be careful who you disagree with and about what you disagree with.
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?

elementary
1 W
1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jun 04, 2013 9:19 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Mini Cyclone on carbon full suspension

Post by elementary » Sep 26, 2016 8:31 pm

The 1680w (steel gears) gearbox "oil conversion" is complete and I am left with some curiosity if any persons on this forum have made a 1680w grease to oil conversion?

If anyone has made a conversion I would like to compare methods and determine if ATF fluid was used and if they vented or not vented the gearbox

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