Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Sep 20, 2017 3:55 pm

Yes I received the email with pics last night and they look serious.
They all seem to have the Rst fork and Fastace rear shock and Tektro hydraulic brakes.
I saw silver and green frames only.
The factory looks to be purpose built/converted with rolling production line too!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by McChicken » Sep 21, 2017 8:12 am

Not trying to bust your balls, but that is not real production you see it's a "Photo shoot pretending to be a factory" I don't say they are not serious but you don't assemble bikes in high heals.
and I DO NOT state that Sur-Ron is not a serious Manufacturer, this is a typical thing to do when you start a new Factory.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Sep 21, 2017 5:20 pm

My balls are fine.
Do you not have Asian safety boots in your country?
I see many women tradies in Australia wearing this footwear from tilers to painters and gyprockers!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Sean9002 » Sep 21, 2017 5:37 pm

McChicken wrote:Not trying to bust your balls, but that is not real production you see it's a "Photo shoot pretending to be a factory" I don't say they are not serious but you don't assemble bikes in high heals.
and I DO NOT state that Sur-Ron is not a serious Manufacturer, this is a typical thing to do when you start a new Factory.
No, its a photoshoot on the training day. why would they have custom CNC'd frame mount jig's on the production line made up for a photo shoot? :lol:
and theres 7 of them pictured, this is a factory production line. All be-it, a small operation. Have you seen the first production facility used by Zero? :wink:
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Alex Imreh » Sep 23, 2017 12:35 pm

Someone, if possible, please resume info about UE registration, maybe you have a link to a topic where this was already discussed.
What have to do the China factory so that we can register these bikes and use them on streets in EU?
They must do some kind of German type homologation that will cost a few thousand Euro?
Could somebody ask the factory when will they try do that? So that we can get with the bike the proper papers to make registration.
I think this is the main issue for all EU buyers, otherwise it will be just a toy to play offroad, with very limited range.
This bike, at present level of battery technology, energy density, it can be actually used only as a city EV, with relatively short range.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by scrambler » Sep 23, 2017 12:43 pm

Alex Imreh wrote:Someone, if possible, please resume info about UE registration, maybe you have a link to a topic where this was already discussed.
What have to do the China factory so that we can register these bikes and use them on streets in EU?
They must do some kind of German type homologation that will cost a few thousand Euro?
Could somebody ask the factory when will they try do that? So that we can get with the bike the proper papers to make registration.
I think this is the main issue for all EU buyers, otherwise it will be just a toy to play offroad, with very limited range.
This bike, at present level of battery technology, energy density, it can be actually used only as a city EV, with relatively short range.
EU Moped homologation (and USA for that matter) may not be a simple and cheap process.

I did send an Email to Sur-Ron suggesting they look into it, as it would make a big difference for their potential market size, but I have not heard back so far.

People who will make a group buy should have more leverage to ask the question and get an answer on whether they are considering doing that or not.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Alex Imreh » Sep 23, 2017 12:53 pm

People who will make a group buy should have more leverage to ask the question and get an answer on whether they are considering doing that or not.

That is why i asked the question here. I had a talk on Skype with the person who could answer to this issue from the factory but as I can buy only one sample and as I have small market in my country, I will not bother the man with the problem.
I guess they must make all this step by step, sell first without such costs, they maybe hope to find a dealer in a big country/market like Germany who could finance this type homologation.
Still, i would like to learn how can be done all this, we need to know the legislation and the costs before trying to make a group to cover these cost, or before asking the chinese to do it.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Merlin » Oct 12, 2017 9:48 am

pretty sure they give a shit about coc papers for EU.
the bike would be worth....looking awesome and the price could be a real option to germans crap elmoto or the french etricks.
i dont get it why for example theres nobody riding a etricks....?!

legal. mid-drive. since 2017 bigger battery. and much more space to switch to a "slighlty" bigger motor ....

AND....you can order it with schlumpf gear....everything legal.

https://www.etricks.fr/etricks-f01/

with promo for now 5K inc vat

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Merlin » Oct 12, 2017 9:57 am

and when you anyway go illegal with footpegs riding offroad.....(still with numberplate)

same price category:


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Merlin » Oct 12, 2017 10:06 am

or go real trial with a 24.0 oset? :D

(4500€ incl Vat)

btw...this is serious offroad. it will handle everything we all ever could do with a lightweight bike. its still illegal like the others.
but this type is no bunch of selfbuild solder and wire stuff.
its a competition bike. 8KW peaks slow geared 49Kg. To be honest except of battery/range its way better we ever could build something in our garage......or?

....and its not even HALF the price of a stealth bike.......HALF!





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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by dirkdiggler » Oct 12, 2017 11:59 am

All those bikes are over twice the price. The Sur-ron is also 60v, unlike some of the others. We'll have to see how well they work though.


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by dirkdiggler » Oct 12, 2017 7:55 pm

Don't know about Europe and the VAT, but US is $3000 shipped for the 60v 25 ah.
LMX 161 is $5200 plus probably $600 shipping
OSET 24 is closer, have a dealer nearby selling for $5000 special order, might have tax. You'll need to pay extra for a moto seat which is an extra $120 unless you like to stand.
Emotion Escape shows up at MSRP $10k
Etricks f01 (only 3kw) shows 5k euro ex. VAT which would be close to the LMX pricing.
So, I could order two Lightning bikes combined shipped for around $5500 for similar price. Like I said though, no one knows what kind of quality you are going to get. Things look good on paper, but could be a shoddy bike. If I had the cash, I'd go for the LMX over any of those. Nice to support some ES members instead of some nameless Chinese factory.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Merlin » Oct 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Alex posted already in the EU (maybe) groupbuy

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1321627



but looks like where the rider lives.
i could catch up with my car a etricks, oset...and since they are in europe looks also cheaper in price.
missed the emotion escape MSRP -> so throw it out of his price. (still an EV with numberplate...not a moped....Zero terrain)

i just wanted to throw in that this (good looking "thing") is not the only one out there and lets say for LMX that was born in the sphere, after you buy you will get 1a support + parts.
oset is also well known (here) etricks is really bad about support as i "heard".....probably 75% of Dealers were gone in Europe.

as you said....chinese dont care about "us". They Come and go. friendly up 2 your money send.
(except of QS Motors....impressive support since minimum a year)

LMX and the Legal L1E (coc papers) would beat out the rest i think. if they price up 30% after the funding offer we reach neematic terrain. Beside of Posting Videos all Time, all Stuff and parts are transparent to the buyer and Top notch. + double the Power of a LMX bike......

btw: we forget the KTM Freeride. Poor capacity, but dirty "cheap" to buy (6000€) and a real Offroad Bike with Licenceplate on his back.

what could i say more?.............someone must try out this china racer ;P

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by scrambler » Oct 12, 2017 11:15 pm

And if a 2500W mid drive with Torque sensing pedal assist and a 1500kWh battery made of 21700 cells all in a sleek looking carbon fiber frame temps you, you now have a 60lb jewel available from Luna :)
https://lunacycle.com/luna-apex/

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Oct 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Dont forget Kuberg. Really nice forks on that one. But I dont know how they can claim 8kW on that 3kW sized motor?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by SlowCo » Oct 16, 2017 1:54 pm

Allex wrote:Dont forget Kuberg. Really nice forks on that one. But I dont know how they can claim 8kW on that 3kW sized motor?
I have a Kuberg Cross that is "powered" by 36V (3x12V SLA), has a 40A controller and a 50A fuse (melt) that they claim 3kW output for.
Must be a very short burst... :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Sean9002 » Oct 16, 2017 6:37 pm

scrambler wrote:And if a 2500W mid drive with Torque sensing pedal assist and a 1500kWh battery made of 21700 cells all in a sleek looking carbon fiber frame temps you, you now have a 60lb jewel available from Luna :)
https://lunacycle.com/luna-apex/
Ugly as feck, has pedals and two inches of travel. :roll:
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by scrambler » Oct 16, 2017 6:44 pm

Sean9002 wrote: Ugly as feck,
You are entitled to your opinion on this one :)
Sean9002 wrote: has pedals
For some this is one of its advantages, you can use it in pedal assist mode or throttle depending what you feel like :)
Sean9002 wrote:two inches of travel.
If you are referring to the Lauf fork, this is only one of the configurations. It can be configured with a regular 120mm travel Mtb fork :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Sean9002 » Oct 16, 2017 7:45 pm

scrambler wrote:
Sean9002 wrote: Ugly as feck,
You are entitled to your opinion on this one :)
Sean9002 wrote: has pedals
For some this is one of its advantages, you can use it in pedal assist mode or throttle depending what you feel like :)
Sean9002 wrote:two inches of travel.
If you are referring to the Lauf fork, this is only one of the configurations. It can be configured with a regular 120mm travel Mtb fork :)
Beauty is definetley in the eye of the Beer Holder! I think the front end looks nice, but the rear looks like a trek from 1996 :)
Yeh i relaise the pedals could be of advantage, but the bikes being discussed arent bicycles, theyre electric motorcycles for proper offroading. I love my Giant glory with a big motor, but going from pedals to pegs is a different world.
I think it would look great with a proper fork! not an RS Bluto or something like that. Have you seen one in the flesh Scrambler? Is the carbon of a good standard?
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by scrambler » Oct 16, 2017 8:16 pm

Haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
The product page does have close ups of that carbon frame, and they do look good, but only test drive will say.

The design appears to have been copied from the Audi Ebike prototype
https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.m ... 1021&dpr=1
https://www.electricbike.com/audi-ebike/

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by scrambler » Nov 12, 2017 6:36 pm

Interesting first report from Arthur on the Firefly bike.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1334044

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Nov 19, 2017 12:18 pm

Controller spec: 80A DC
60V*80=4800W peak output.

60v is 176 cells 32ah 1900wh (Panasonic PF)
Should be 16s11p and would make it to 31,9Ah

If we count that 1s is 3.6V then 16s*3.6=57.6V*80A=4608W
11P pack with PF cells is good for maximum of 110A so the current at 80A is fair although the pack can sustain a bit higher current.
If we can reprogram or change the controller then we can achieve 57.6V*110A=6336Watts of power.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by motomoto » Nov 19, 2017 1:51 pm

Thanks for the data. I think there is some great hop-up potential. The first thing to do is get a sine wave controller
on the bike. I just rode the bike to the store and I wish it was more silent. The noise is obnoxious when you want to
be stealthy which is all the time. I would like to get a pack loaded with 180 25r batteries 20s 9p at 100 amp discharge.
That would be a fast bike !!!

I will post the stock dyno graph in this thread where it belongs
sur-ron dyno.png
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Ohbse » Nov 20, 2017 4:51 pm

This thread needs more disassembly pics! Anybody got one of these things that they can pull apart and document?

The frame, motor, drivetrain all looks great. Battery looks pretty good too, but odd cell choice - I'd definitely be replacing them with some Samsung 30q's - they're just better all round than the PF's they've chosen. Controller seems meh, definitely would be interesting to put something with some bigger balls in there and push it. Mobipus 72200 would be ideal if you could still buy the damn things.

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